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Mr Morden wrote:Well next thing is to ask the FAQ boys to update the Tyranid ones in the same way as they updated Marine Dreadnought attacks
BloodGrin wrote:
CaptainSomas wrote: Those broodmind powers look bonkers. Especially the summoning one..yikes.
And MIND CONTROL is back!
Hey...Wraith Knight....how about shoot your D's nutz at your buddy over there.
or
Hey Broadside....all of those ignores cover misses look kind of heavy in that pod....why don't you let me aim them for you!
Caederes wrote:More like this....hi Stormsurge. What's that? You have one-use-only missiles that rip apart Broadsides and Riptides? What about those secondary weapons that scythe through Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors/Kroot? Or how about your main gun that destroys pretty much any non-monstrous unit that Tau have?
Or how about hi Imperial Knight Crusader, I notice that your allied to a Space Marine army that really doesn't want 12 AP3 Rending shots and 2 AP3 Large Blasts coming their way...oops.
This discipline scares the bajeezus out of me as someone who isn't a Cult player.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's a good point actually, @Tyranid607 how much do individual Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs cost? Are they similar to those in Deathwatch: Overkill? Are Acolytes still Fearless?
Thanks again, you're doing an awesome job!
Are those vehicles? Maybe now it's time to stop crying that they should be vehicles and not Monstrous Creatures.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
Are those vehicles? Maybe now it's time to stop crying that they should be vehicles and not Monstrous Creatures.
That's my bad lol, I didn't read the "non-vehicle" part. The Stormsurge is a Gargantuan Creature but the Imperial Knight is a vehicle. Still, the power is great, even for simple things like shooting a heavy weapon team into the rear armor of a nearby Leman Russ or something along those lines.
Caederes wrote: More like this....hi Stormsurge. What's that? You have one-use-only missiles that rip apart Broadsides and Riptides? What about those secondary weapons that scythe through Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors/Kroot? Or how about your main gun that destroys pretty much any non-monstrous unit that Tau have?
Or how about hi Imperial Knight Crusader, I notice that your allied to a Space Marine army that really doesn't want 12 AP3 Rending shots and 2 AP3 Large Blasts coming their way...oops.
This discipline scares the bajeezus out of me as someone who isn't a Cult player.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's a good point actually, @Tyranid607 how much do individual Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs cost? Are they similar to those in Deathwatch: Overkill? Are Acolytes still Fearless?
Thanks again, you're doing an awesome job!
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/26 17:21:12
oldzoggy wrote: When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
Just look at the time...
The reason i removed all post is because gw post a video that is very similar to what i know
and people just think i am trolling around
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
So Neophytes and Acolytes both work out to be about a point more expensive than their Overkill versions, but given the army special rules, new weapons, sergeants, etc that only makes sense. They're still great, Neophytes are just superior Guardsmen and Acolytes might be the best melee horde unit in the game right now.
What are the details on the Metamorphs? 9 points each sounds really cheap given what I saw of their weapons, I couldn't make them out very clearly but one of them looked to be AP3? That they get +2 Strength or +3 Initiative or +2 Weapon Skill and otherwise seem like generic Acolytes sounds crazy for only 1 point extra per model. What are the AP values of their weapons and which ones get which stat boosts? Is it free to pick those three weapons or do they start with one and have to pay for the different stat-boosting weapons?
Also, are Acolytes and Metamorphs Fearless?
What does the Primus do now that we've seen the Patriarch, Magus and Iconward?
Thank you very much
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/26 17:25:36
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
This is just the first wave of releases. The trucks haven't even gotten released yet. I'm sure we'll see some more stand-alone kits.
Right now you can't get the Primus or Magus individually yet either. The upgrade kit has been confirmed. It just hasn't gotten released yet. GW likes to release things in smaller waves. I'm sure the strategy being that if they space them out to match up with payday, you'll be more likely to buy because you're flush with cash and the total expenditure is lower, rather than trying to get you to drop $200 or more at once on every model in the range.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
oldzoggy wrote: When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
Just look at the time...
The reason i removed all post is because gw post a video that is very similar to what i know
and people just think i am trolling around
I don't think you are trolling. I appreciate everything you are doing.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
This is just the first wave of releases. The trucks haven't even gotten released yet. I'm sure we'll see some more stand-alone kits.
Right now you can't get the Primus or Magus individually yet either. The upgrade kit has been confirmed. It just hasn't gotten released yet. GW likes to release things in smaller waves. I'm sure the strategy being that if they space them out to match up with payday, you'll be more likely to buy because you're flush with cash and the total expenditure is lower, rather than trying to get you to drop $200 or more at once on every model in the range.
I've got the White Dwarf with all the releases in it. No Aberrants, and no upgrade sprue separate from the sets its in. The Primus, Magus and Patriarch are in a set together.
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
metamorphs default come with rending claws and metamorph talon which bascially +1WS
and can replace rending claws and metamorph talon with 2 metamorph talons = +2WS for free
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph claws = +2S for 2pts
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph whip = +3I for 2pts
leader can take bonesword for 20pts
Oh, the Cult Ambush rule is even better than I thought. The #5 result lets you shoot twice! Really darned good with Neophytes, then you cast Relentless on them in the Psychic phase so that their second shooting attack lets them use their Heavy weapons to full effect.
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
metamorphs default come with rending claws and metamorph talon which bascially +1WS
and can replace rending claws and metamorph talon with 2 metamorph talons = +2WS for free
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph claws = +2S for 2pts
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph whip = +3I for 2pts
leader can take bonesword for 20pts
Here's the real kicker, do the stat boosts work even if you use the Rending Claws? I.e. do the rules for the Metamorph weapons state "a model equipped with this weapon gets +2 Strength" and so on? Double yikes if that's how it works.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/26 17:32:41
Caederes wrote: As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.
I would have expected them to be Come the Apocalypse with everything - I guess their reasoning for Tyranids is some kind of control over the invasion force to leave the Genestealer Cult as their last meal, but I always thought they would have been indiscriminately devoured upon sight by any Tyranid outside of the Cult..
From a post back during the FAQ that changed the Genestealer Cult to AoC:
The Warzone Valdore book has a section in the back of the book detailing the phases of Tyranid invasion and includes the role of the Hybrid forces.
Excerpts from the relevant sections.
Discovery: As the infiltrator beasts prosper upon the target world, so their numbers multiply. Genestealers impregnate their prey-creatures with alien taint on a genetic level, forcing their victims to spawn horrific offspring that are nonetheless nurtured as beloved children away from the sight of mortal authorities. As such hidden communities flourish, so does their collective psychic spoor grow stronger, presumably attracting the notice of the ever-hungry Hive Mind as it draws close. A flourishing hybrid community of this kind is a sure indication of rich feeding grounds. In some cases, those in the thrall of the Genestealers may seek to infiltrate the world's ruling classes, aiming to prepare it for the hive fleet's arrival by weakening defenses or moral resolve.
Attack: [...] It is during these primary invasions that any infested local communities make their move, acting entirely under the control of the Hive Mind and seeking to disrupt what little resistance the defenders are able to mount from within.
Consumption: As the Tyranid digestion pools swell, the hive ships cluster closer and closer to the planet's surface.[...] At this point, any infested natives the vanguard organisms have cultivated upon the world add their biomass to the harvest. The minds of these creatures are, by this point, entirely subsumed to the Hive Mind's gestalt will, and they march blank-faced into the depths of the digestion pools, along with all the other Tyranids to be rendered down into nutrients.
Basically they are treated as any other combat organism by the Tyranids.
Based on the (highly exciting) leaks so far, I suspect allies of convenience is to represent certain incompatibilies between the two, such as use of technology or the zealous leadership employed by the cult leaders. In addition, there are a few odd rules interactions that could cause trouble with battle brothers (Fearless conferred by a non-synaptic character to IB: Lurk creatures for instance - they are required to fall back but can't because of Fearless and have no clause to upgrade to the next result like IB: Hunt does).
Flying Hive Tyrants. You can get a single one in an allied detachment for the low cost of a single Mucolid or up to three in a Leviathan detachment for three Mucolids. Adds extra warp charges and some anti-heavy tank too if you splurge for Electroshock Grubs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/26 17:37:00
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
This is just the first wave of releases. The trucks haven't even gotten released yet. I'm sure we'll see some more stand-alone kits.
Right now you can't get the Primus or Magus individually yet either. The upgrade kit has been confirmed. It just hasn't gotten released yet. GW likes to release things in smaller waves. I'm sure the strategy being that if they space them out to match up with payday, you'll be more likely to buy because you're flush with cash and the total expenditure is lower, rather than trying to get you to drop $200 or more at once on every model in the range.
The truck / HQ and Cadian like Heavy Weapon Squad is in stock already
but no news for aberrants
and i dont heard of any start collecting kit for GSC so the cheapest way to get it is by deathwatch overkill, and grab a box Acolyte which the drill upgrade go for overkill Acolyte, and you cab build 5 metamorphs out of this
The Warzone Valdore book has a section in the back of the book detailing the phases of Tyranid invasion and includes the role of the Hybrid forces.
Excerpts from the relevant sections.
Discovery: As the infiltrator beasts prosper upon the target world, so their numbers multiply. Genestealers impregnate their prey-creatures with alien taint on a genetic level, forcing their victims to spawn horrific offspring that are nonetheless nurtured as beloved children away from the sight of mortal authorities. As such hidden communities flourish, so does their collective psychic spoor grow stronger, presumably attracting the notice of the ever-hungry Hive Mind as it draws close. A flourishing hybrid community of this kind is a sure indication of rich feeding grounds. In some cases, those in the thrall of the Genestealers may seek to infiltrate the world's ruling classes, aiming to prepare it for the hive fleet's arrival by weakening defenses or moral resolve.
Attack: [...] It is during these primary invasions that any infested local communities make their move, acting entirely under the control of the Hive Mind and seeking to disrupt what little resistance the defenders are able to mount from within.
Consumption: As the Tyranid digestion pools swell, the hive ships cluster closer and closer to the planet's surface.[...] At this point, any infested natives the vanguard organisms have cultivated upon the world add their biomass to the harvest. The minds of these creatures are, by this point, entirely subsumed to the Hive Mind's gestalt will, and they march blank-faced into the depths of the digestion pools, along with all the other Tyranids to be rendered down into nutrients.
Basically they are treated as any other combat organism by the Tyranids.
Based on the (highly exciting) leaks so far, I suspect allies of convenience is to represent certain incompatibilies between the two, such as use of technology or the zealous leadership employed by the cult leaders. In addition, there are a few odd rules interactions that could cause trouble with battle brothers (Fearless conferred by a non-synaptic character to IB: Lurk creatures for instance - they are required to fall back but can't because of Fearless and have no clause to upgrade to the next result like IB: Hunt does).
Thanks for that Strat, that fills the gaps in my knowledge nicely However I would say that whichever group of soldiers they bring under their wing, be they PDF or AM, would probably function in the same way as the rest of the Hybrids, which still confuses me on how they are not Battle Brothers - the Cults aren't using the equipment or tactics anyway, they will still function as PDF/AM. Rules wise it makes sense though, I guess.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/26 17:41:10
His Master's Voice wrote: AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).
Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.
I was glad to see they downgraded Battle Brothers to AoC, but I agree, Tyranids have no friends, nor should they. Even the Genestealer Cult is a tool, not an ally. A beacon to locate populous planets for consumption. They hinted at this in the video Warhammer TV released, but went soft on it in the rules allowing them to ally. The idea of the Cult fighting alongside Tyranid creatures is silly. The Hivemind exists only to devour biomass. The manipulation of the Cult, the Ascendency, etc, that's all a fabrication of the Magus/Patriarch to lure in unwitting new followers, while disguising the true nature of the Cult (an eventual beacon for the Hivemind). Nobody actually ascends anywhere except up a Tyranid feeding tube, lol.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
Even if the stat boosts don't combine with the Rending Claws on Metamorphs (Tyranid607, can you confirm please?), there's still a lot to like there. The +3 Initiative weapon means you strike before things like Harlequins, denying their main advantage; you go first with a plethora of attacks, hitting on 4s and wounding on 3s and they only get their 5+ invulnerable save. Bye-bye Harlequins. Also generally works against Eldar in general of course.
Caederes wrote: Oh, the Cult Ambush rule is even better than I thought. The #5 result lets you shoot twice! Really darned good with Neophytes, then you cast Relentless on them in the Psychic phase so that their second shooting attack lets them use their Heavy weapons to full effect.
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
metamorphs default come with rending claws and metamorph talon which bascially +1WS
and can replace rending claws and metamorph talon with 2 metamorph talons = +2WS for free
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph claws = +2S for 2pts
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph whip = +3I for 2pts
leader can take bonesword for 20pts
Here's the real kicker, do the stat boosts work even if you use the Rending Claws? I.e. do the rules for the Metamorph weapons state "a model equipped with this weapon gets +2 Strength" and so on? Double yikes if that's how it works.
I believe yes for the rending claws, as the only option to give up the rending claws is replaced with 2 metamorph talons
so the other options you still have the rending claws
Really the kicker is will they release the acolytes from overkill as stand alone. $40 for 5 dudes is tough to handle for 8 point guys. Other than that this seems like a really interesting army to play.
His Master's Voice wrote: AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).
Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.
I was glad to see they downgraded Battle Brothers to AoC, but I agree, Tyranids have no friends, nor should they. Even the Genestealer Cult is a tool, not an ally. A beacon to locate populous planets for consumption. They hinted at this in the video Warhammer TV released, but went soft on it in the rules allowing them to ally. The idea of the Cult fighting alongside Tyranid creatures is silly. The Hivemind exists only to devour biomass. The manipulation of the Cult, the Ascendency, etc, that's all a fabrication of the Magus/Patriarch to lure in unwitting new followers, while disguising the true nature of the Cult (an eventual beacon for the Hivemind). Nobody actually ascends anywhere except up a Tyranid feeding tube, lol.
At least according to the Novel released last Saturday by the author who also did "Fire Caste" not even the cult leaders and Patriarch are fully aware of the coming of the Tyranids. The Patriarch gains gradual sentience and awareness as it grows but it seems to be unaware of what-is-coming only a "Bloodline" or "Genetic" Imperative that drives it. In the novel a Patriarch that was gaining awareness took the symbolism and they concepts of the Sororitas and applied them to itself and brood. So they are all true believers. They just don't know what.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/26 17:59:08
I believe yes for the rending claws, as the only option to give up the rending claws is replaced with 2 metamorph talons
so the other options you still have the rending claws
So that means the weapons say "a model equipped with this weapon xxxx" rather than "a model that uses this weapon" or something to that effect? If they work at the same time as the Rending Claws, meaning you can have +2 Strength or +3 Initiative and Rending simultaneously on the Metamorphs, that's ridiculous!
Thanks for that Strat, that fills the gaps in my knowledge nicely However I would say that whichever group of soldiers they bring under their wing, be they PDF or AM, would probably function in the same way as the rest of the Hybrids, which still confuses me on how they are not Battle Brothers - the Cults aren't using the equipment or tactics anyway, they will still function as PDF/AM. Rules wise it makes sense though, I guess.
Think of it this way: The GSC "IG" units are the ones comprised entirely of Cult members. Due to their need to maintains secrecy, they can't necessarily get access to some of the more limited equipment and wargear (such as Manticores and rare Leman Russ variants) where the necessary clearence could carry too much of a risk of exposure.
IG units that are allied to a GSC force are the ones that have been compromised but not totally taken over (e.g. the commander of the unit might be a cultist while the troops are loyal but opperating under bad faith orders), or had to stay secret enough they can't act in coordinated concert with the main GSC force once things break out.
.
