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Something I've mused on a few times over the years. It's a little odd that a weapon able to cleave through thick armour doesn't actually have any additional bite - AP notwithstanding, there's no difference between a power sword and chainsword. It's also quite silly that Space Wolves get their own special "just better" versions, even if they do pay for them (but Space Wolf special treatment is a whole other topic).

I'm not actually advocating this one way or the other, but I'm curious to see what other people think of it. An alternative would be to allow all power weapons to re-roll 1s To Wound, or only apply the Strength bonus when hitting against armour saves of 4 or worse. One caveat to this topic, however - let's completely ignore Formations and Detachment bonuses.

Do Space Wolves then get Grav weapons?

Not sure. The increase-to-compensate effects could get out of control easily. If Howling Banshees become S4 they start to step on Striking Scorpions' toes, do we then have to make Scorpions S5? What happens to power fists? Nemesis weapons? Zephyrglaives? What about armies that don't have 'power weapons' (Tyranids, Necrons, Tau, Daemons)? When do you have to start pumping Toughness to compensate for the Strength-spike you've just induced?

About the only changes I'd make to power weapons are to make them cheaper (and scaled based on the model's WS/S), and to make Axes hit at I-1, instead of being flat-out unwieldy.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Not sure. The increase-to-compensate effects could get out of control easily. If Howling Banshees become S4 they start to step on Striking Scorpions' toes, do we then have to make Scorpions S5? What happens to power fists? Nemesis weapons? Zephyrglaives? What about armies that don't have 'power weapons' (Tyranids, Necrons, Tau, Daemons)? When do you have to start pumping Toughness to compensate for the Strength-spike you've just induced?

I don't think S4 Banshees would be much of a problem for Striking Scorpions. Banshees don't get the Shrouded shenanigans and Scorpions don't get the mask. The Zephyrglaive could stay the same; it's not a generic power weapon and already has bonuses for its charge (it's just a better power lance). Nemesis weapons would stay the same, I'd say, due to their various bonuses (not to mention Hammerhand). This doesn't apply to Tyranids, Necrons, Tau or Daemons because they all, for good or bad, have their own things going on. As for "pumping Toughness", I'd say "never". Why would there be "increase-to-compensate effects"?

Really, I'm just talking about the generic power weapons (sword, axe, lightning claw). This means mostly S5 coming from Space Marine power weapons (with S6 axes) and S4 from the few Eldar/Dark Eldar and non-Marine human units with power weapons. The one issue this does raise is what to do with the power maul; it shouldn't be +3 Str but it'd be nice for it not to be outclassed by the axe. Maybe keep the axe at S5, meaning the only difference between it and a sword is the AP2 and Unwieldy? The power lance is an awkward case already, not sure how it fits in.

...There would be 'increase-to-compensate' effects because you can't hand out significant across-the-board buffs to a few armies that don't really need help without doing something for the armies that are struggling already? Vanguard Veterans are already pushing for the title of best assault unit at their pricepoint in the game, why do they need +1S?

I don't see which problem you're trying to address specifically. You only mentioned the fluff as a reason to boost power weapons.

I suppose you find them too weak. But how? Why do you not take them on your guys? Because it's not worth the points, or because it doesn't bring something you need? In the first case, it's more of a point cost issue, in the second, more of a profile issue.

For instance, harlequin troop masters can take power swords for 15pts. It's a pretty bad choice compared to a kiss or a caress. Power swords are better against MEQ, but much worse against high toughness or 2+ saves, which makes them poor choices overall.
But at the same time, it's not much of an issue, because harlequins have access to good melee weapons. I don't see a gap that could be filled with a slightly modified power weapon profile.

I think Power Weapons are pretty fantastic as they are, and only need slight modifications to work better. Remember, back in the past Power Weapons just "ignored armour saves", even 2+ saves! The fact that Power Weapons have different types at all now is great. And yeah, I sure do feel the sting of the Power Weapon when it cuts down three Marines without any save.

However, in the current environment, Power Weapons are too expensive, but that's only because the current environment is where I feel the problem is. Having Power Axe's be "poor man's power fist" is a great thing, and Power Mauls as "better strength, but that might be the only bonus you get against lots of enemies" is a real risk too! Power Swords are, honestly, quite nice right in the middle of those two.

I like it when other factions get their own unique thing, but I don't think that's going to "fix" anything, it's just a new flavour twist. That's great and all, but most forces already have this (though not to the same extent as Imperial armies... which might actually be a-okay).

 Yarium wrote:
Remember, back in the past Power Weapons just "ignored armour saves", even 2+ saves!

I remember. I also remember that boneswords, for a short but sweet period of time, were the only ones in the game to continue to do so, due to not being called "power weapons".*

fresus wrote:
I don't see which problem you're trying to address specifically. You only mentioned the fluff as a reason to boost power weapons.

That is literally the reason. Like I said, I'm not advocating this, I'm just curious to see what other people think about it. The overwhelming response is a definite no, so that's been answered! As for Vanguard Veterans in particular, though, they get massive points reductions on their wargear, don't they? That's probably a whole other issue in of itself; I'm really thinking about this more in a vacuum, in a "what if the rest of the game wasn't in the crazy state it's currently in" sort of way. In other words, if we imagine or pretend that the armies that struggle don't actually struggle, because any changes to them would be outside the scope of something as small as this.

*EDIT: Not implying anything. It was just a fun technicality for Tyranids back then.

jade_angel wrote:
About the only changes I'd make to power weapons are to make them cheaper (and scaled based on the model's WS/S), and to make Axes hit at I-1, instead of being flat-out unwieldy.

Agreed. It is just crazy that a power fist on a IG sarge costs the same as a SM powerfist, which is on a much better base model. The effect if even worse because Power fists double strength, so you pay the same for something that is substantially worse - -2S, less of a chance to hit, less attacks most likely, and less survivable.
I think 25pts for PF on MEQ/TEQ is fine, but I'd go for:
15pts on GEQ

and probably 10pts for power weapons on GEQ, instead of the current 15pts.

I'd also argue that the costing of items shouldn't be rounded up or down to the nearest 5 (for the most part)

Power weapons have not been pretty fantastic, especially when remembering, back in the past, power weapons just "ignored armor saves", even 2+ saves! When you buy a character a prowrr sword, you hope he does better against in combat than the same character with just a gun, but that isn't really the case against Orks. A power sword should help kill an ork much more than it does.

Use power mauls on Orks...

I think it makes perfect sense that a Power Sword does the same amount of damage as a ccw against unarmored targets.
Experiment time! Go get a pork chop or a T-bone, something like that. First, try and cut the meat with a sharp knife, then just start punching it. Compare results.
Once you're done pounding your meat, repeat the experiment, but first put down a thick piece of carboard or plasticard, if you have it. The knife will do exactly the same thing it did to the meat before, but the punches will have their damage mitigated and spread out, unless the slice of meat is so small that there is nowhwhere for the force to spread to.

Because that's how armor-penetrating stuff works.

While many other armies do need some better gear, taking away one of the hallmarks of the space wolves by giving it to everyone is not really the way to do it.

Space puppies aren't a tier one army... if you want to ask for better weaponry, ask for something like the Tau's shooting capability or the Eldar's insanely cheap wraithknights...

I understand that Nids need a huge boost to make them playable again... just like several other armies. The sisters for example... but i don't think taking a page out of another armies book is really what GW should do. Instead, get cheaper units or better unit mechanics. Cuz if everyone is a special snowflake, nobody is a special snowflake. And every army having the same weaponry would suck.