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No command squad to give orders? Fascinating... I would have bet that an optimised list of MT takes multiple CAD to multiply the HQ choices, load weapons and stack up orders...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this?

1850 pts

CAD1
Tempestus Command 4 Plasma 145
Tempestus Command 4 Plasma 145
Tempestus x10 2 Volley 150
Tempestus x10 2 Volley 150
Tempestus x 5 2 Flamer 80

CAD2
Tempestus Command 4 Volley 125
Tempestus Command 4 Melta 125
Tempestus 2 Melta 90
Tempestus 2 Melta 90
Tempestus x 5 2 Flamer 80

As transports or fast attacks, wherever you want:

Taurox Autocannon Battlecannon 80
Taurox Autocannon Battlecannon 80
Taurox Gatling Volley 90
Taurox Gatling Volley 90

Valkyrie Lascannon 135
Valkyrie Lascannon 135


Remove a Valkyre, to add a culexus or an Inquisitor and some good stuff with it.

You can remove a flamer squad and add a culexus for precisely 1850

Anyway, I think Tempestus need a 1st turn alpha strike like the Elysians.

I'm not 100% sure of the entire concept, but I think the idea was to max out on DTs with Obsec.

Since Taurox Primes can launch themselves 24" to distant objectives, without much fear of terrain, they are pretty good tools to contest Objectives if you can cope with their fragility.

there was also one at BAO.

The only thing bothering me about that list is the number of Melta Guns.

 Jancoran wrote:
there was also one at BAO.

I believe that one had a knight crusader as an anchor and about 8 tauroxes with missiles to balance it out, with everything deepstriking in for some big AV spam.

Ive tried something similar without a knight and its been a lot of fun but it is very very fragile and you pretty much get one chance it get it right. I was lucky enough to roll the deep striking warlord trait too so that helped immensely.

That Knight Crusader list is from Broadside Bash, report linked below. The BAO list is very different, some kind of Flyer concept. I have no details myself. Jancoran might know more.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/05/04/militarum-tempestus-broadside-bash-tournament-report/

Not too bad, though I'd have invested in more Plasma Guns myself.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
there was also one at BAO.

I believe that one had a knight crusader as an anchor and about 8 tauroxes with missiles to balance it out, with everything deepstriking in for some big AV spam.

Ive tried something similar without a knight and its been a lot of fun but it is very very fragile and you pretty much get one chance it get it right. I was lucky enough to roll the deep striking warlord trait too so that helped immensely.

I don't remember seeing a Knight in his list. I wasn't looking that closely so perhaps, perhaps not? The dude came wearing an actual flight helmet, which was pretty awesome.

The Militarum Tempestus are a fairly fun force. They are incomplete. I think it's hard to argue that. at low points, this doesn't affect them as much but at higher points, it REALLY does. No Psyker powers, insufficient strength o ntheir weapons means they rely VERY heavily o nthe few shots they can get from special weapons, their transports are fairly expensive, even though they are good at their jobs, and they have to commit to a fairly poor answer to anti-air in the form of Valkyries. That's a lot of short comings. The new formation is VERY useful but also has a big down side which is that it isnt Obsec and themn being laregly Obsec-centric is a strength forthe Militarum Tempestus. Same goes for their Ground Formation,. Losing Obsec to take it is kind of a bummer.

 Jancoran wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
there was also one at BAO.

I believe that one had a knight crusader as an anchor and about 8 tauroxes with missiles to balance it out, with everything deepstriking in for some big AV spam.

Ive tried something similar without a knight and its been a lot of fun but it is very very fragile and you pretty much get one chance it get it right. I was lucky enough to roll the deep striking warlord trait too so that helped immensely.

I don't remember seeing a Knight in his list. I wasn't looking that closely so perhaps, perhaps not? The dude came wearing an actual flight helmet, which was pretty awesome.

The Militarum Tempestus are a fairly fun force. They are incomplete. I think it's hard to argue that. at low points, this doesn't affect them as much but at higher points, it REALLY does. No Psyker powers, insufficient strength o ntheir weapons means they rely VERY heavily o nthe few shots they can get from special weapons, their transports are fairly expensive, even though they are good at their jobs, and they have to commit to a fairly poor answer to anti-air in the form of Valkyries. That's a lot of short comings. The new formation is VERY useful but also has a big down side which is that it isnt Obsec and themn being laregly Obsec-centric is a strength forthe Militarum Tempestus. Same goes for their Ground Formation,. Losing Obsec to take it is kind of a bummer.

Agreed on all accounts. I think the Scions would be a force to reckon with if they had a decurion (even without obsec) that allowed them to either scatter 1d6 less or come in first turn, had some new formations, more access to orders (via sgt or better range +1 on command) and some sort of air support in the form of an all new flyer or easier access to stuff like Vultures and Avengers.

You can pray for the 4th warlod trait that gives you rerollable reserves and scatter 1d6 for any units depe striking, but that's the best you'll get for reliable reserves.

 Bobthehero wrote:
You can pray for the 4th warlod trait that gives you rerollable reserves and scatter 1d6 for any units depe striking, but that's the best you'll get for reliable reserves.

I've been lucky to get that a few times, and it drastically changes how the entire army plays. I really hope if they fix MT they include this trait as part of a formation or a decurion style thing, as it pretty much is how the army should be playing at all times, just how they flavored the GSC formation/detachments to match the playstyle of the army.

So was I, its great, but the few times it happened I usually ended up with my Valkyrie coming by turn 3-4, win some lose some xd

well even just being able to give two orders per turn would have been wiser.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
No command squad to give orders? Fascinating... I would have bet that an optimised list of MT takes multiple CAD to multiply the HQ choices, load weapons and stack up orders...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this?

1850 pts

CAD1
Tempestus Command 4 Plasma 145
Tempestus Command 4 Plasma 145
Tempestus x10 2 Volley 150
Tempestus x10 2 Volley 150
Tempestus x 5 2 Flamer 80

CAD2
Tempestus Command 4 Volley 125
Tempestus Command 4 Melta 125
Tempestus 2 Melta 90
Tempestus 2 Melta 90
Tempestus x 5 2 Flamer 80

As transports or fast attacks, wherever you want:

Taurox Autocannon Battlecannon 80
Taurox Autocannon Battlecannon 80
Taurox Gatling Volley 90
Taurox Gatling Volley 90

Valkyrie Lascannon 135
Valkyrie Lascannon 135


Remove a Valkyre, to add a culexus or an Inquisitor and some good stuff with it.

You can remove a flamer squad and add a culexus for precisely 1850

Anyway, I think Tempestus need a 1st turn alpha strike like the Elysians.

I wouldn't recommend plasma guns in the Command Squads because they will then be perceived as a huge threat and destroyed quickly, which you really don't want. It also chains you to using the PE order on the Command Squad. As was mentioned earlier, the HSVSs work much better in the CSs while the 10 man Scion squads will fair better with the plasma, especially when running a Hellrain brigade because you WANT those 10 man plasma gun squads to adsorb all the shooting.

Other thoughts on scions in general:

Adding a TDA Inquisitor to Scion Command Squads. This gives them a decent deep striking tank to help them survive small arms fire, access to psychic powers, decent melee power, LD10, Stubborn, and of course 3 servo skulls per Inq. It isn't too cheap, at around 130 points for the Inq (with a Psycannon, but you can do this for cheaper if you drop said weapon and mastery level one) with that load out, but that may be worth it considering the survivability and utility this adds to your all important command units.

Two Command squads with two Psycannon Inquisitors was an idea I've tried playing with before when I tried mashing those two and Skitarii. Plus you can get 3 Plasma Cannons for 60 points, and they're so cheap you don't care about the occasional Mindlock.

Another option, which I tried in a game recently and was very pleased with, is D-99 allies. Meltaguns really seem wasted on scions to me, but the D-99 can get a 5 man stubborn, BS4, deepstriking meltagun squad with 4 meltas (or more if you want to go crazy), Monster Hunter and PE xenos and a krak grenade on Sarge for 95 points as en elites choice. They can also spam cheap deep striking obsec IG veteran squads with a minimum squad size of 5 with the option of 1 heavy flamer and special weapon, again with PE xenos and stubborn. Not to mention a BS5 Vulture gunship (vs ground targets) with deep strike for 25 more points than the regular one and BS4 Valkyries. And finally, if you take Solomon Lok as your HQ you can make his retinue a very nasty melee unit if you want to with deathcult assassins, crusaders and priests.

I used this recently in a game with 2 Hellrain Brigades and it worked very well; the cheap D-99 vets could work towards objectives while the Hellrain Squads (10man with 2 plasma) dropped into the enemy's face and did terrible damage, forcing the enemy to kill them only to have them come down again next turn. The BS5 Vulture was terrifying, missing only 2 shots from the punisher cannons the entire game.

D-99 also has the option to take elites choice squads armed only with grenade launchers, flamers, plasma guns, or meltas with up to 13 men per unit. All with PE xenos, BS4, and stubborn. And for cheaper than Scions. Grenade launchers may be generally mediocre, but a unit with 10 of them as a free upgrade over a lasgun? That is pretty interesting. The only reason I am not using my Scions to count as D-99 at this point is because the Hellrain Brigade is just so good. The combination of the two, D-99 and Hellrain, makes for a truly elite feeling army.

Plasma Guns make more sense anyway.

Plus Volley Guns but that's a rare choice. Nice when the dude is relentless in Kill Team though!

ExFideFortis wrote:


I wouldn't recommend plasma guns in the Command Squads because they will then be perceived as a huge threat and destroyed quickly, which you really don't want. It also chains you to using the PE order on the Command Squad. As was mentioned earlier, the HSVSs work much better in the CSs while the 10 man Scion squads will fair better with the plasma, especially when running a Hellrain brigade because you WANT those 10 man plasma gun squads to adsorb all the shooting.

I totally see the point, but I just find a bit optimistic thinking that one will have the command alive in the proximity of the squad on the right moment. I just wonder if a deepstriking unit with 8-9 plasmas with preferred enemy or twin-linked can be the answer to a lot of questions. One just does not put the warlord there, but on a more backfield unit with the HSVGs.

Actually, I can see now that if the general meta was more relaxed, this codex would have been a small jewel. Just adjusting the loadout, size and transports of these stormies gives you totally different units. Shame the short range of the Hot Shot Lasguns.

On a similar route, I do wonder if one can put less scions, and add Forward sentinels IG veterans, a Vendetta and an HQ consisting of 4 plasma or melta with ignore cover. If one keeps having the initiative, can reward an aggressive playstyle and adds more to the flyer and anti-flyer department. On 2000 points, one can considers a bit less scions, one/zero valkyries, the vandetta guard above, and then look for Assassin or Inquisition support. I have to re-do a list and check-out the point cost soon or later.

For low point games, just no flyers or shenanigans; some squad in tauros, some deepstriker, and good luck


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ExFideFortis wrote:
Another option, which I tried in a game recently and was very pleased with, is D-99 allies. Meltaguns really seem wasted on scions to me, but the D-99 can get a 5 man stubborn, BS4, deepstriking meltagun squad with 4 meltas (or more if you want to go crazy), Monster Hunter and PE xenos and a krak grenade on Sarge for 95 points as en elites choice. They can also spam cheap deep striking obsec IG veteran squads with a minimum squad size of 5 with the option of 1 heavy flamer and special weapon, again with PE xenos and stubborn. Not to mention a BS5 Vulture gunship (vs ground targets) with deep strike for 25 more points than the regular one and BS4 Valkyries. And finally, if you take Solomon Lok as your HQ you can make his retinue a very nasty melee unit if you want to with deathcult assassins, crusaders and priests.

I used this recently in a game with 2 Hellrain Brigades and it worked very well; the cheap D-99 vets could work towards objectives while the Hellrain Squads (10man with 2 plasma) dropped into the enemy's face and did terrible damage, forcing the enemy to kill them only to have them come down again next turn. The BS5 Vulture was terrifying, missing only 2 shots from the punisher cannons the entire game.

D-99 also has the option to take elites choice squads armed only with grenade launchers, flamers, plasma guns, or meltas with up to 13 men per unit. All with PE xenos, BS4, and stubborn. And for cheaper than Scions. Grenade launchers may be generally mediocre, but a unit with 10 of them as a free upgrade over a lasgun? That is pretty interesting. The only reason I am not using my Scions to count as D-99 at this point is because the Hellrain Brigade is just so good. The combination of the two, D-99 and Hellrain, makes for a truly elite feeling army.

D-99 fascinates me - there is a way to have them all with Carapace? At least Troops and HQ? And these gheavily loaded vets? I do not know them at all. I am considering the army for the models first and foremost.

D-99?

General Hobbs wrote:


D-99?

Forgeworld specific Elysian Drop Troop List from Imperial Armour 4 Anphelion Project that has rules for the Elysians seconded to the Inquisition which were modified with geno-enhancements.

 Grimskul wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


D-99?

Forgeworld specific Elysian Drop Troop List from Imperial Armour 4 Anphelion Project that has rules for the Elysians seconded to the Inquisition which were modified with geno-enhancements.

I don't know the rules, have Elysians access to carapace armour?

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


D-99?

Forgeworld specific Elysian Drop Troop List from Imperial Armour 4 Anphelion Project that has rules for the Elysians seconded to the Inquisition which were modified with geno-enhancements.

I don't know the rules, have Elysians access to carapace armour?

This link sums it up nicely but their units unfortunately don't have access to carapace armour. It's counteracted by their better stats and unique special weapons units. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/D-99(7E)

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


D-99?

Forgeworld specific Elysian Drop Troop List from Imperial Armour 4 Anphelion Project that has rules for the Elysians seconded to the Inquisition which were modified with geno-enhancements.

I don't know the rules, have Elysians access to carapace armour?

This link sums it up nicely but their units unfortunately don't have access to carapace armour. It's counteracted by their better stats and unique special weapons units. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/D-99(7E)

Thanks (ahah great, 1d4 chan!). They look fantastic, but I need carapace models. I see there are two lists!
(Now with) Army builder gives a grenadier option, but is 30 points.
AAAAAAAAAARGH why does not forgeworld updates the rules?

Forge World is a scourge. Forsake it.

It is not, hush

 Jancoran wrote:
Forge World is a scourge. Forsake it.

I cannot consider a scourge who gave me Kriegsmen (Hunde, wollt ihr ewig leben?) and Shadow Spectres!

Just, it took just 3 editions to give to the spectres a reasonable price!