Ascension Calls: Genestealer Cult Tactica

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**luke1705**

DarkStarSabre wrote:
To be honest I've come to think that for GSC it's....different.

Our meta-detachment is by far our strongest - the reserves tweaking, the Return to Shadows replenshing and the mass Infilitrate does a lot of work for GSC as a whole.

However, we also benefit from a secondary CAD or some secondary formations - more warp charge dice and additional Primus' for your Subterranean Assaults, or additional Patriarchs to make your 'assault' units even more monstrous.

I would say however that the CAD is secondary to the meta-detachment in terms of strength. I'd not splash points into the CAD simply because our meta-detachment just benefits us that much more as do the formations.

Sure, CAD Acolytes have ObSec.

But Insurrection Acolytes have Shrouded on Turn 1 and the ability to replenish their numbers when they Return to the Shadows.

I'd say, with the CAD to run it very, very barebones. I'm honestly thinking of basically going Primus, Patriarch and 2 min squads of Acolytes. Extra Warp Charge, another Primus to further reinforce the Uprising and direct them and another Patriarch to throw into a unit - possibly even into one of my Cavalcade Neophyte squads.

Literally exactly how I'm running my side CAD. Still would like to trim down my list to run two allied flyrants for actual warp charge punch (and you know, AA, durable units, etc) but for pure GSC I definitely think that's the way to go

**DarkStarSabre**

Yeah, I'm liking the thought of a secondary Patriarch sitting in one of the Cavalcade's Chimeras with them. Suddenly it turns the suicide squads (one with double flamer, one with double grenade launcher, double flamer chimera - sole purpose being to mass burn a blob and maybe pop shots into the rear armour of something) into something more threatening.

The Patriarch is terrifying. I will always, ALWAYS run Biomancy on them just for the chance of Iron Arm. Iron Arm turns the Patriarch into a straight up warlord-slayer. With Iron Arm it kills vehicles too.

Heck, even the base Patriarch is quite frightening. Even more so if he's accompanied by anything - even base Neophytes. That's 10 free floating wounds for you to use as you please. They hitting you with something you think you can soak or is minimal threat (say S3 attacks in assault). Eh, no biggy. What's that, an ID force weapon? Throw the redshirt in front of it!

**Unyielding Hunger**

Well, my codex almost got sent to New Zealand, so I was unlucky and didn't get to take it with me on vacation, but what is the opinion on taking large numbers of magos and doting throng formations. Looking at a potential summoner list.

**GodDamUser**

Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Well, my codex almost got sent to New Zealand, so I was unlucky and didn't get to take it with me on vacation, but what is the opinion on taking large numbers of magos and doting throng formations. Looking at a potential summoner list.

Its do able is the simplest answer

basically has the same advantages and disadvantages as a daemon summon list.

On another forum someone posted a list that was just 8xCAD with 2 magus and 2 neophyte squads in each

**adamsouza**

It's not the same as a Daemon Summoning list. Daemons have access to cheap and plentiful options for Warp Charge Generating units.

GSC is actively handicapping itself to Spam Magus to get enough warp dice to rely on summoning.

**luke1705**

I think if you want to spam summoning, bring two flyrants to the party.

The biggest problem with spamming summoning is that your summoners will be dead on turn 3 or 4, and you don't have a way to guarantee success because you don't have enough warp charge unless you have a ton of CADs. Most psychic heavy armies have some way to cast more efficiently. I would say that most games you'll only be attempting to summon once or twice a game, and that's mostly dependent on the d6 roll. The kitted out squads are super cool though - can't wait to summon a free acolyte squad with 4 heavy rock saws and all the fixings

or gene stealers all with scything talons. Shame the patriarch isn't a "squad upgrade" anymore haha.

Plus, if you want to build a list around it, what if you don't roll summoning? At best, you have like 8 tries, and you *SHOULD* get it, but if that's the point of your list and you don't.....whoops. Although that whole discipline is excellent.

**GodDamUser**

luke1705 wrote:
Plus, if you want to build a list around it, what if you don't roll summoning? At best, you have like 8 tries, and you *SHOULD* get it, but if that's the point of your list and you don't.....whoops. Although that whole discipline is excellent.

If you go for the 8xCAD option you get 32 chances to get it =D

**zamerion**

Are we sure that if we join a primus from CAD in a unit from subterrain uprising, they will roll 3 dices?

With the faqs, if a independent character joins a unit from a formation, the IC doesnt win the rules from the formation, and some times, the formation lose their benefits (for example the skyhamer annihilation force) I see this formation the same as annihilation force.

**DarkStarSabre**

zamerion wrote:
Are we sure that if we join a primus from CAD in a unit from subterrain uprising, they will roll 3 dices?

With the faqs, if a independent character joins a unit from a formation, the IC doesnt win the rules from the formation, and some times, the formation lose their benefits (for example the skyhamer annihilation force) I see this formation the same as annihilation force.

Meticulous Planner states 'a Primus'. Not 'the Primus from this formation.' Just 'a Primus'. The Primus himself meets the requirements for Cult Ambush, Retreat to the Shadows and Infiltrate by default. The Primus is also a 0-1 choice so is not mandatory for the formation.

Plus this strikes me as something that persists as you have other characters not available in the formation that you may likely attach due to the Insurrection detachment or standard CADs - Iconwards, Patriarchs - all things you may stick into a unit. Considering that GSC are an army based around stacking bubbles, more so than Tyranids or Eldar it would be odd for formations to exclude this.

**N.I.B.**

tetrisphreak wrote:
I started rolling for cult ambush and got a "6" on the metamorphs that had the broodcoven attached

Not sure if possible - the Broodcoven must be deployed as a single unit. Doesn't that imply that they must wait until their movement phase before they can join a unit?

**zamerion**

Nobody likes to use acolytes hybryds from subterranean suprising as kamikazes?

5 of them with 1 demolition charge and 4 fire pistol are 80 pnts. Rolling 2 dices is easy to get 4/5/6 to trow the demolition charges in the middle of the enemy army.

And you can use 4 units of them.

**tetrisphreak**

N.I.B. wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
I started rolling for cult ambush and got a "6" on the metamorphs that had the broodcoven attached

Not sure if possible - the Broodcoven must be deployed as a single unit. Doesn't that imply that they must wait until their movement phase before they can join a unit?

The limitation of being deployed as a single unit refers to the 3 of them being together. It does not say they cannot also deploy with a unit. The independent character rule states they can so it doesn't break any rules if they begin attached to a unit so long as all 3 are together.

**MilkmanAl**

If you're considering adding a CAD for the extra warp charge, any reason to not just roll with an extra Brood Coven? That way, you get the WC you want plus a Primus to potentially make a SU unit more reliable. You obviously lose a lot of flexibility doing so, but the extra formation bonuses are poretty sweet. A large unit or Acolytes or Metamorphs would be very happy with your selections!

**Saythings**

MilkmanAl wrote:
If you're considering adding a CAD for the extra warp charge, any reason to not just roll with an extra Brood Coven? That way, you get the WC you want plus a Primus to potentially make a SU unit more reliable. You obviously lose a lot of flexibility doing so, but the extra formation bonuses are poretty sweet. A large unit or Acolytes or Metamorphs would be very happy with your selections!

If you are running the Decurion, you aren't allowed to have more than 1 of each of the HQs. That's one reason why you may not run 2 Brood Covens. If you weren't limited by 3 sources, you could run 2 Brood Covens out of the Decurion (or one in and one out). That being said - I think Primus' outside of the decurion opens up ObSec Ambush units which, in my opinion, is the strongest part of the codex.

**MilkmanAl**

Sorry, I meant a Brood Coven outside of your Decurion instead of a CAD. I could definitely get behind some ambushing heavy weapon Neophytes, but you might be better off saving the points and strengthening your Decurion with SU units.

**DarkStarSabre**

MilkmanAl wrote:
If you're considering adding a CAD for the extra warp charge, any reason to not just roll with an extra Brood Coven? That way, you get the WC you want plus a Primus to potentially make a SU unit more reliable. You obviously lose a lot of flexibility doing so, but the extra formation bonuses are poretty sweet. A large unit or Acolytes or Metamorphs would be very happy with your selections!

Flexibility.

The main reason is Flexibility. Suppose I want to stick this second Patriarch in another Stealer brood or, as I said in the Cavalcade. Can't do that with the Coven.

Suppose I want to stick just the primus in one of the Uprising broods to guide them a bit better.

Problem with the Coven is that it's very inflexible. It takes 4 transport spots - which immediately prevents it being joined to the Cavalcade. It forces the characters together - which immediately prevents it from joining any Purestrain broods (they can only be joined by a Patriarch).

I really don't like the Coven as it forces the eggs in one basket approach. A second Primus and Patriarch are far scarier a prospect when they can be on opposite ends of the board pressuring different units. But lumped together? A single threat.

**MilkmanAl**

I completely agree overall. The flexibility is a big deal. That said, if all you're looking for is warp charges from the CAD, the Coven prevents you from having to choose between 2 more WC (either Patriarch or Magus) and a Primus.

**Lansirill**

One thing I'm just not seeing for this army is what to do for anti air except ally in some flying dakka tyrants or.... whatever the hell guard uses (hydras? Laser pointers?) I made a list I liked using am and gsc, but two dakka jets would just destroy it.

**pinecone77**

I don't see why you can't take a small fort, and a anti air gun though...?

**Lansirill**

pinecone77 wrote:
I don't see why you can't take a small fort, and a anti air gun though...?

Partly because I tend to forget about fortifications (I've played almost nothing but Tyranids for the past year or two.) An Imperial Strongpoint might not be a bad idea... only downside is it's very static in a very non-static army. I had thought about taking the... ugh... IG detachment with 1 CCS, 1 Manticore, and 2 Basilisks though. Could work well with that.

**changemod**

Lansirill wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
I don't see why you can't take a small fort, and a anti air gun though...?

Partly because I tend to forget about fortifications (I've played almost nothing but Tyranids for the past year or two.) An Imperial Strongpoint might not be a bad idea... only downside is it's very static in a very non-static army. I had thought about taking the... ugh... IG detachment with 1 CCS, 1 Manticore, and 2 Basilisks though. Could work well with that.

Try a vengeance weapon battery maybe? Those don't need babysitting.

**GodDamUser**

Do fortifications count as their own detahment these days or do you need a cad?

**adamsouza**

zamerion wrote:
Nobody likes to use acolytes hybryds from subterranean suprising as kamikazes?

5 of them with 1 demolition charge and 4 fire pistol are 80 pnts. Rolling 2 dices is easy to get 4/5/6 to trow the demolition charges in the middle of the enemy army.

And you can use 4 units of them.

I hadn't thought of using them that way, but it sounds like a dun idea.

**Red Corsair**

Lansirill wrote:
One thing I'm just not seeing for this army is what to do for anti air except ally in some flying dakka tyrants or.... whatever the hell guard uses (hydras? Laser pointers?) I made a list I liked using am and gsc, but two dakka jets would just destroy it.

Why do you even want to bother with anti air. If your doing this army right your going MSU. 2 dakka jets can kill two units a piece if and when they ever come in thanks to -1 reserves. As someone posted earlier, ally in a CCS from the cadian battle group for an officer of the fleet and thats a -2 to any reserve roll.

**luke1705**

Yeah with cover and return to the shadows, I'm really not seeing airpower as something that we have to care about. They have to land to score (I'm ok with that!) and I would love to hear about the model that can make it points back against 8 point models taking cover saves that can regenerate every other turn. Do tell me why I should care about air.

I was mostly thinking that Flyrants would be good for a decent chance at first blood (just in case you don't roll sixes) as well as durable warp charge batteries. Sadly, you can't make them a warlord (or, I should say, I don't think you should because then your patriarch can't get to CHOOSE HIS AMBUSH RESULT 1/3 games).

FYI I have played 2 games and not had my warlord in the first curse roll this trait yet.....I AM DUE haha

**CryonicCenobyte**

zamerion wrote:
Nobody likes to use acolytes hybryds from subterranean suprising as kamikazes?

5 of them with 1 demolition charge and 4 fire pistol are 80 pnts. Rolling 2 dices is easy to get 4/5/6 to trow the demolition charges in the middle of the enemy army.

And you can use 4 units of them.

You can only throw a demo charge from Ambush on a 6 result. They have a 6" range and all other results on the ambush table specify you have to be more than 6" from the enemy and cannot move.

I suppose if you're really lucky and you get the first or second result it's possible to move onto the board from the edge and demo charge an enemy who was sitting too close, but there are way too many variables there.

**Timeshadow**

Honestly if you are worried about anit air just allie in a Flyrant or two. This also gives extra warp charge as prev mentioned.

2 Dakka Flyrants with EG
3 indivigual Zoanthropes
2 Ripper swarms

Total 708 pts

This gives great Anti air 5 backfield units to camp objectives freeing your units for more cult ambush and adds 10 Warp charge so you can do all the fun cult psy shanigans.

**zamerion**

CryonicCenobyte wrote:
zamerion wrote:
Nobody likes to use acolytes hybryds from subterranean suprising as kamikazes?

5 of them with 1 demolition charge and 4 fire pistol are 80 pnts. Rolling 2 dices is easy to get 4/5/6 to trow the demolition charges in the middle of the enemy army.

And you can use 4 units of them.

You can only throw a demo charge from Ambush on a 6 result. They have a 6" range and all other results on the ambush table specify you have to be more than 6" from the enemy and cannot move.

I suppose if you're really lucky and you get the first or second result it's possible to move onto the board from the edge and demo charge an enemy who was sitting too close, but there are way too many variables there.

If at the end cult ambush is infiltrate, you can use it in deployment, that isnt a turn. Its a different phase, so you can move in your movement phase of your turn. (cult ambush rule said that you cant move in the phase movement of THE TURN that you use it)

This idea is only good if you begin the battle.

**terry**

luke1705 wrote:
Yeah with cover and return to the shadows, I'm really not seeing airpower as something that we have to care about. They have to land to score (I'm ok with that!) and I would love to hear about the model that can make it points back against 8 point models taking cover saves that can regenerate every other turn. Do tell me why I should care about air.

I was mostly thinking that Flyrants would be good for a decent chance at first blood (just in case you don't roll sixes) as well as durable warp charge batteries. Sadly, you can't make them a warlord (or, I should say, I don't think you should because then your patriarch can't get to CHOOSE HIS AMBUSH RESULT 1/3 games).

FYI I have played 2 games and not had my warlord in the first curse roll this trait yet.....I AM DUE haha

I've played 3 games and still hadn't that trait yet

**Timeshadow**

terry wrote:
luke1705 wrote:
Yeah with cover and return to the shadows, I'm really not seeing airpower as something that we have to care about. They have to land to score (I'm ok with that!) and I would love to hear about the model that can make it points back against 8 point models taking cover saves that can regenerate every other turn. Do tell me why I should care about air.

I was mostly thinking that Flyrants would be good for a decent chance at first blood (just in case you don't roll sixes) as well as durable warp charge batteries. Sadly, you can't make them a warlord (or, I should say, I don't think you should because then your patriarch can't get to CHOOSE HIS AMBUSH RESULT 1/3 games).

FYI I have played 2 games and not had my warlord in the first curse roll this trait yet.....I AM DUE haha

I've played 3 games and still hadn't that trait yet

Ive got it once out of my 3 games so far and it was great they wiped their target but then they got incenerated by some outflanking tanks. Note GSC vs GSC is crazy. Ambushes against ambushing ambushers sigh so up and down. lol.