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11 points per hybrid acolyte... only 2 rend atacks.. orks cost 6...
We are crazy?



Opinions from 8th?

I'm pretty disappointed in losing return to shadows. We're a better alpha strike army than ever before but that's all we can do. Kind of frustrating that we're shoehorned so hard into one strategy.

I feel like GSC itself got hit with the nerf stick

and relies hard of Allied forces of Tyranids or Guard..

But the Heavy Rock Drill is awesome!

GodDamUser wrote:
I feel like GSC itself got hit with the nerf stick

and relies hard of Allied forces of Tyranids or Guard..

But the Heavy Rock Drill is awesome!

So glad I modeled 8 rock saws only for them to become the worst option!

 Red Corsair wrote:
So glad I modeled 8 rock saws only for them to become the worst option!

Yeah I am glad I sat on mine till the rules came out..

Rock Cutter and Drills for my boys =D

rockgrinder is the key!!



power hammer are vey good, but aberrants with it are very very expensive..


Metamorphs ( 18 points with the mandatory talon ), gobye claws (6 points wihout rend..), hello whip, you die and you still atacking, and you dont need to atack with the whip..


Also.. genestealers.. are very good, 18 points each...but, i see tyanids and they cost 12.. 6 points for the ambush? its a joke?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any idea how to play them?

I dont know if use a lot of small units with heavy close combat weapons in chimeras..

or

abuse of msu cult ambush without equipment

or

make "big" units of genestealers and aberrants with some iconwards (i thinks that you can accumulate some rolls)


Im really lost :(

I think that it's going to be really important to pop transports. Now that everyone can just hop out and counter assault you. So I'm mixing in a bunch of guard squads with lascannons and sniper rifles to do the long range damage.

However Cult ambush just says Any movement phase so I wonder if this means you can spend a couple turns blazing away with all your guns, pop all the transports then drop in. That could give us a little bit of the tactical flexibility we're now severely lacking.

Yes, i think that you can go to the board on the turn that you want with the cult ambush.

But now all armies have perfect deep strike or similar, so if you only have some shoot units the enemy will kill them easy.


So to begin, i dont know if its better to abuse of cult ambush (now if you have a bad roll, its a really big problem) or its better use our vehicles to assault..

5 hybrids with rock cutter and whip for the boss are 104 points.. and now that each hybrid only has 2 "rend" atacks, i think that is required some heavy close combat weapon in each unit.

Now our salvation is worst, so we need vehicles to assault.

the best vehicle for the price and damage i think that its rockgrinder, with flamer and demolitions cost 136 (but only can transport 6 miniatures)

Nude chimera is 93 and nude goliath 107 but goliath with T6 its very weak :( So for transport more than 6 miniatures id prefer chimera.

So 5 vehicles and 5 units and you have more than 1000 points. Very very expensive : /


And my biggest dilemma... big unit of genestealer or not? XD
I love them, but it really hurts me to pay 6 points more than tyranids players for each genestealer..

So got 2 test games in today using GSC at 1000pts vs crimson fists, first some general observations then I will go specific.
Game time was quick, everything dies quickly.
Our army depends on the ambush table and thus the half the army at the start really hurts as its either you spilled up thus character buffs aren't stacking. Morale is crippling to some units so I think Patriarch are going to be key:
A note that I can see is there is not a reason we cannot take a multiple of any HQ choices so if points allow maybe 2 Primus and 2 Patriarch are the way to go.
Ambush can hurt your army as I rolled a one (forgot I could command point reroll) in the first game with patriarch and 10 stealers, my opponent had spread out and given me a tiny corner where on 7 stealers and patriarch could deploy.
Psychic powers are also great: real star is mass Hyp but I got very good use out of smite and mind control.
Unquestioning loyalty is super useful and a butt saver for Primus as 5+ don't last long.
Command points are great to take as many as possible both I and my opponent took battalion for 6 in total and I used all each game.
the new set up of alternative user deployment is cool and a sort of mind game: we play it a character and unit in ambush was 1 deployment but we are certain on that.
More boy than toys seems like the way to go this edition.
new charges help a lot, charging into a unit then wrapping around into others seems to be key: the second match we played it was corner deployment, so my opponent castles up using character buffs to full effect this lead to me engaging 8 out of ten units in first turn
ok on to more specific stuff:
Patriarch kicks ass, he always made his points back but really came into his own when he murdered Kanto 3 prime marines and 2 Centurions 3 rounds of combat. I expect he will draw lots of fire.
Primus: worth it on the reroll on ambush I might be tempted to put him in with Purestrains rather that Patriarch as the rerolls are great.
Magus: only used him in one game: not being able to double up on powers hurt, but I could see a list taking two as smite is really good.
Iconwards Not sure are worth it as they feel very hit or miss in both games. not sure if I would take another look but that's 4 acolytes.
Pure strains yep these are Genestaelers, that hurt a lot, they are super quick going 8+d6 so if they weren't such fire magnets foot slogging could be viable.
Acoyltes: these guys did work when they got to the opponents army killing plenty but having only 1 in reserve and 1 foot slogging I can tell you paper has more chance against a marine player. also despite no plenty to hit rocksaws aren't worth it for 24 pts not high enough attacks
Neophytes: these guys work rather well, I think depending on points it might be better going Guard but I'm not positive: I have a feeling transport could of help me a lot but forgot to pack them.

some notes on Marines: target the Characters, whereas we get pluses to rolls the rerolls they give out is brutal, new marine guys feel a bit bear right now without any options.

so that's all I play with I will possibly having some more games at the weekend.
onwards towards ascension lads

Having messed around with the rules. I'd say your thoughts on the iconward. He's one of the most important models if your gonna go a low vehicle build as he provides a 6+ save to all units in his range. Effectively the inward is our replacement for return to the shadows as he does the most to keep our brood on the table. Note you only need to roll 3-5 6s and He's paid for himself in full. I think we'll see 2 or 3 of these per army if you want to go big on cult ambush.

Guns as they were before are the strongest with cult ambush, but it's way stronger now than it was before. You cant return from the shadows meaning your kinda screwed on fishing for good rolls.

However, you can attempt a charge after all rolls. Basivly melee and flamers want a 5+ to beable to easily get shots off.

While mid range weapons like seismic cannons and shot guns only need a 4+ to make target range.

As mentioned the prius and his unit can reroll. I ran a big 20man acolyte unit with heavy weapons, and in the two games it was debating how they did. Even more so as he gives a to hit bonus in combat.

First curse basicly still exist but you o my get one roll if you want to come on from abmush, or you need to run up the table and survive shooting. I think cult ambushing and using your command reroll is the way to go. Even more so as our army really easily can get command points in list building.

Neophytes will be bread and butter. They can shoot the heavy weapons after ambush at only a -1 to hit. The mining laser and seismic cannon are great. Seismic cannon does ALOT of work for its points the are is only 7 (? If i remember right), but the difference in the higher strength numbers doesnt mean a whole lot like it did last edition. The mining laser works well as your ling range option, and grenade launchers can go with anyone. Shotguns and flamers also do well, but rely on 5+ rolls for ambush.

Once you land on the table you can end up kind of stuck where you are. This is fine for many units as your assault neophytes can advance and shoot at -1 penalty for the most part. Which is why shotguns and flamers and grenade launchers will be staples.

The vehicles are great too, but they will be a very different army. . As all the vehicles go boom you will want to keep space between your units and the rest of your army, but can send them on suicide runs. Trucks are great for neophytes as they can all shoot from them.

Our spells are great but ive gone on too long, but you'll want to have 3 psykers to use each one.

Overall I we won't be playing wackamole, we'll either pop up everywhere and own the map with heavy numbers advantage. Or tool around in a mad max truck army. Both seem equally good to me.

So, do Metamorphs still have a niche? Without their weapons acting as a modifier for rending claws they're basically just acolytes with an extra attack, and Purestrains do that better.

changemod wrote:
So, do Metamorphs still have a niche? Without their weapons acting as a modifier for rending claws they're basically just acolytes with an extra attack, and Purestrains do that better.

I hate to be negative but i truly believe Metamorphs have no place in our army at all. Theyre just so darned expensive! A claw-morph went from 11 to 19 points and lost Rending. That, to me, cant be forgiven. Hybrids just pack more of a punch and are cheaper enough to fit in a drill/saw/cutter.

I like them with whips (15 points)

They die in close combat and still fighting with the rending claws. So, you can activate them the last.





And in general for all units, what do you think? it's better big units or a lot of small units?

zamerion wrote:
I like them with whips (15 points)

They die in close combat and still fighting with the rending claws. So, you can activate them the last.





And in general for all units, what do you think? it's better big units or a lot of small units?

seee i thought whips would be worth it to, but when playing with a few units they totally arent. The reason is..... when do you think your gonna use your whips???? your genestealer cult you should be the one charging them and fighting on your terms. Also while melee is better in 40k, know that shooting will still be everywhere. So they get shot, or they fight first and then start dying after they fight first, and then the whips only matter in later turns of an ongoing combat.

As for unit size most stuff you want small units except in two cases.

As i said before first curse still exist sorta. The patriarch will want to roll with 20 genestealers. This is because
1. he can only brings on unit with him when he ambushes,
2. because genestealers get a massive damage boost when they are in numbers larger than 10,
3. so you can cast strong buff on that unit
4. it's easier to keep them in range of the patriartch or a few models in ranged for the iconward invuln.
5. remember you can reroll this ambush with your command points, and with all the troops we can take it's easy to load up on command points


Then we have the primus, he is basicly another patriarch who can go with more genestealers or acolytes. I found that i had success with the untis of 10 and 20 acolytes i played with. All three of the times i played they had 4 heavy weapons that did work on big stuff, and all the other guys could bury the enemy in attacks, 2+ rerolling to hit is nasty stuff. These are the real unit you want to buff with our spell. They become really bonkers when they get that extra strength and attack. a 20 man unit can take a night out in a single turn easily when buffed.

Everything else i think should be min squads so you can get more rolls on ambush, and control the table better. This also protects you from morale. The one hang up on small units is that you gotta throw down more units and this effects who goes first.

mmimzie, thanks for your advice.

I love genestealers, but really the cult ambush rule cost 6 points? because tyranids genestealers cost 12.. :(

Also do you use any vehicle?

And whats about aberrants?


thanks in advance

zamerion wrote:
mmimzie, thanks for your advice.

I love genestealers, but really the cult ambush rule cost 6 points? because tyranids genestealers cost 12.. :(

Also do you use any vehicle?

And whats about aberrants?


thanks in advance

Yeah i was super butt hurt they cost more. The follow is all me rationalizing on how i played and what i like about the genestealers specific to the cult. One thing i liked is that i don't need the patriarch to chill with my genestealers baby sitting as the primus can buff them all the same. The 6+ save from the banner is easy to use it's not a power so i don't have to get it off, and be bummed when it fails at the worst time, and the banner is super cheap and can support multiple units at a time. If you look at drop pods and other similar transports cult ambush is basically a drop pods for genestealers, but some times it's waaay better (game winningly so), and seldomly it can get you in the butt. (the worst is when you roll a 1, and end up walking on from your table.). Even neophytes pay a cult ambush tax if you compare them to standard guard.


vehicles. Truck is nice, open top lets you put neophtyes in there so you can shoot. I played against a lemon russ and they were annoying, but it had multi damage weapons so was in effective against my more swarmy genestealer army. The rock grind s kinda meh in combat surprisingly as it doesn't hit so well. They don't work well with our characters??? As the way we read the rules they don't extend from units in the vehicles and then you lose unquestioned loyalty so snipers can dust your squish heros. THe nice thing about them though is you can charge me into combat to stop opponents from shooting the next turn, or park them behind enemy unit's that want to retreat so they can't get away. Other than that, i don't know i have to play with them more than i did.

Aberrants super specific. Their damage reduction matters against a few weapons like D3 weapons it can take the edge off. They hammer dudes messed up a land raider something good on the first turn of three games i did. After they did that though they felt like they were sorta done??? They didn't have anything else to kill and spent the game holding an objective or assisting by killing a few more model in another combat with acolytes. I guess i would ahve felt the same with my gernestealers against all knights or something.

In spain people is saying that the meta will be horde/rubbish miniatures with some big toys, at least for the moment. For example chaos: spam of brimstone horrores + magnus+1/2 renegade knights


So im thinking in made an imperial guard brigade or battalion detachament with all infantery with plasmas (to have units to deploy on table), and 2 genestealers cult batallion deteachement with 3 big units, maybe 1 aberrants + primus, 1 genestealers + patriarch and 1 acolytes full heavy weapons + primus, and the rest of the army a lot of small units of acollytes with ambush.


what do you think?

Well so, important to note. I think alot of folks are finding hordes good because weapons that do multiple damage suck against them, but the inverse is true, if you math out what genestealkers do to a knight vs same number of points of acolytes with just a few heavy weapons you'll see how strong multi damage weapons are to big stuff. So i can see armies of all big stuff or all Hordes doing well by having target denial.

As for your list note you have to set up as many units on the table as you deploy in reserves. scout sentinels a neat, cheap, and can support your ambush dudes well. You'll realizes those characters + unit of dudes will take up a lot of your drops quite quickly. The same goes with the small units of acolytes.

a note on lots of different melee units, focusing down single units is important, and you start to run out of space to fit multiple units into single targets. The way the rules work big melee units are great because they fight in two ranks more or less. Also note you can deploy them in ambush on the fly, and some maps let you deploy so aggressively that you might need to ambush to much if you get to pick. spear head assault is great, lets you deploy close to the enemy, and means have have to roll badly twice for cult ambush, as thier is only one bad table edge. The same cult ambush roll goes for hammer and anvil. Search and destroy is also okay as you can deploy aggressivly.

One more thing on cult ambush. Your rolls

My current working list:

detachments 2x battalion detachment

Ambushing(usualy):
patriarch
Primus
iconward

18 acolytes w/ 4xdrills & 1x bonesword
15x acolytes w/ 1x bonesword
15x genestealers
2x *(20x neophytes shotguns 2xLauchers 2x Seimic cannons)


On the board:
2x magus w/ 1 familiar
icon ward
2x (10x neophtyes 2x lauchers)
2x (10x neophtyes 2x mining laser)
2x (single unit) scouts w/ heavy flamer

This list goes with big cult ambush units to alpha strike stuff down, and trys to sure up the RNG by bring neophytes who have few bad rolls for cult ambush, and lets me get some damage done even if all the cult ambushes come up bananas. Scout sentinels can a very tough surprisingly, and can turn 1 charge to eat over watch.

Down sides with this list is that i'm nervous i can be table easily?? from what i played this didn't happen, but i feel like it should be possible??

for the points of neophytes, dont you prefer a detachement of astra militarum?

They shoot better with orders, are cheaper, and with a cheap comissar you "dont have moral". (for example 3 infantery squads with 1 heavy weapon each, 3/4 speacial squads, creed, and some other character)



Also for the points of 20 genestealers, you can have 20 hybrids and 6!! heavy weapons. Hybrids are weaker, but they are much more versatile, because they can deal with hordes and with big creatures.


I think that GW need to check points of us units :(

yeah i don't totally disagree with you.

However, i'm using the neophytes to keep my magus (s??? i??? plural) on the table. Neophtyes do this abit better as they protect from snipers via unquestioned loyalty. Also while they shoot better with orders your only boosting the shooting of your rapid fire weapons, and you can only hit 10 guys per order so your adding a 15 or 20 point price tag on the top of each guard unit... to shoot lasguns twice or to shoot less than 1/6th better with reroll 1's. Also a neophtye squad can be pretty tough in melee as they can get magus buffered allowing them to attacck twice at str 4, and the squad being buffed can be a 20 man squad with a power weapon (though i'm not sure the weapon is worth it??? maybe??) Edit: also our neophytes can hop in a truck, which is also suprizingly tough and can shoot freely from it, allow you to retain all your heavy weapon attacks.

Genestealers you super right and i was thinking the samething this morning, i was also thinking about metamorphs. Also you say hybrids are weaker but are they?? 20 genestealers= 80 attacks that result in 33 wounds against a marine 10 of which are rending. VS vs 32 acolytes (for the same cost) will do more than 36 wounds against marines with 12 of them being rending. I didn't even do the math for the cult knifes or factor in the reroll 1's.

Metamorphs don't seem to shabby if you can give them all whips, which is doable if you just take all the whips out and make all the other guys acolytes . Both units make 3 and 4 attacks a turn, but all the metamorph attacks are rending. Where as the acolytes have on of thier attacks that that is the cult knife. So maybe we won't field genestealers at all. The reason i first consider genestealers worth it was due to the fact that the patriarch his worth his points solo with not only his damage compared to acolytes or other units in our army, but also his psychic and morale protection. While also being cheaper than the tyranid variant.

My biggest issue with GSC atm.. Is that you are pretty much always going to go 2nd...

I am thinking I am going to have to invest in some Guard

Deploy Guard to hold the table then ambush with GSC

Yeah very disappointed with Metamorphs... there is basically no reason to take them over a Purestrain Genestear, my reasoning is that Invun save will keep more alive if I don't get a good ambush (or charge)

 vercingatorix wrote:
I'm pretty disappointed in losing return to shadows. We're a better alpha strike army than ever before but that's all we can do. Kind of frustrating that we're shoehorned so hard into one strategy.

If we get first turn. So basically at the start of the game roll for who goes first, if you don't you've lost.

They took away the thing GSC hinged on and gave it no alternative means to balance it by. Same movement speed as humans, paper armor, almost exclusively CC in an edition that somehow managed to favor shooting over close combat more than even 7th, and no real good way to get there when your opponent can defeat you with the deep strategy of walking slowly the opposite direction.

How the gak don't hybrids have move 7 or fleet or something about movement?

Danny slag wrote:

If we get first turn. So basically at the start of the game roll for who goes first, if you don't you've lost.

They took away the thing GSC hinged on and gave it no alternative means to balance it by. Same movement speed as humans, paper armor, almost exclusively CC in an edition that somehow managed to favor shooting over close combat more than even 7th, and no real good way to get there when your opponent can defeat you with the deep strategy of walking slowly the opposite direction.

First turn goes to who finishes deploying first, unless seized

The new rules have changed the focus of GSC a fair bit. Entirely foot GSC lists are just not going to cut it as much as it use to especially with the loss of RTS.. This means we need to look at transports more seriously

Rockgrinders are awesome.. not quite as sold on the Goliath..

But I do intend to get some guard to have along side my GSC maybe some bassies and Valkyries

First @Danny slag your abit wrong in favors shooting alot. I'd say 40k does favor shooting, but melee can be amazing in this game, and first turn charges are devasting.


genestealers don't nessarily beat out metamorphs. if you give them whips meta morphs are 15 points a model to genestealers 18, and the meta morphs can reroll 1's to hit, and with a +1 to hit they reroll everything. a little math hammer we get 24 metamorphs with whips vs 20 genestealers with whips. you'll get 35 damage going out against marines before saves and 11 at -4 ap. comparitively genestealers will put out 33 and 10 respectively. So dont count out metamorphs.

I got to mess around with transports, and they work out pretty nicely. They are as said our pet bet for finishing deployment first. As most elite armies can ahve anywhere from 10-15 drops.

The trucks:They don't just disappear right away even under some heavy fire. That 6 up save can be clutch. The open top let this thing be a porcupine of the highest order. two mining laser with the auto cannon and the heavy stubber ontop of all the autogun shots put out some serious dakka. The demo charges that i took for testing sake, were meh as i really only drove one truck up all that close. Might only be good if you hit out the squads inside for close range??

The chimeras were neat, but when the trucks just sorta stole the lime light as they just put out so many shots. Even the flamer dude was kind of meh because it took a turn to get into range due to the map we played on. I put shot gun dudes inside because thier weapons didn't matter and figured i could use the chimeras as a way to get them up the table, but the ambushing shotgun guys did the work quicker with more models and at a cheaper price.

Right now i'm in camp trucks. Those things are fun fun fun. Both transports had a chance to take advantage of disembarking out of a transport in combat. This was cool because you popped out and just shot dudes in the face unless we read rules wrong. I'm definitly more of a transport fan now, and i'm just gonna stick everything i deploy on the table in transports.

I also tried buffing a 20 man neophyte units with +1 atk/str worked wonders was really funny.

Edit: on defending our genestealers they are the unit we can make that can do the most damage as one activation in combat against horde units. They will be that unit you look at when you need to kill a unit as they will be the one unit that can put out the most damage against most thing not vehicles or monsters.

Has anyone considered adding tyranid genestealers instead of guard? Or adding one or two big bugs? Another question are tyranid and guard mutually exclusive in the gsc list or can we mix and match as long as we have more cult than other?

Timeshadow wrote:
Has anyone considered adding tyranid genestealers instead of guard? Or adding one or two big bugs? Another question are tyranid and guard mutually exclusive in the gsc list or can we mix and match as long as we have more cult than other?

I was thinking in mix all, i like genestealers from tyranids and with 1/2 broodlords to have psych powers (that affects to cult)

but there arent points for all XD

Also , if you only have a few combat units deployed on the table, the enemy will kill them easy.

So id prefer a lot of small guard units to shoot a little (with mortars) and ambush with all units from genestealers cult.



Really its very hard to make a good list today :(

GodDamUser wrote:

Danny slag wrote:

If we get first turn. So basically at the start of the game roll for who goes first, if you don't you've lost.

They took away the thing GSC hinged on and gave it no alternative means to balance it by. Same movement speed as humans, paper armor, almost exclusively CC in an edition that somehow managed to favor shooting over close combat more than even 7th, and no real good way to get there when your opponent can defeat you with the deep strategy of walking slowly the opposite direction.

First turn goes to who finishes deploying first, unless seized

The new rules have changed the focus of GSC a fair bit. Entirely foot GSC lists are just not going to cut it as much as it use to especially with the loss of RTS.. This means we need to look at transports more seriously

Rockgrinders are awesome.. not quite as sold on the Goliath..

But I do intend to get some guard to have along side my GSC maybe some bassies and Valkyries

in response to rock grinders and goliaths, yet another shaft GSC got. They don't get cult ambush so now you have to either choose to not take them and try for a decent cult ambush roll, or take them and forgo even attempting to ambush. Just bad design all around because it essentially punishes you for even trying to use the armies core ability. And especially now that you can only try it on half, and only once per game. That means max you'll be doing 2-3 cult ambush rolls a game, those are really bad odds. So it's actually in your best interest to not use cult ambush now because you have to plan around that from the list building phase instead of making that decision during deployment or during the game. Return to the shadows let you use tactics on the fly, this shoehorns you into "well are you feeling lucky when you build your list?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:
First @Danny slag your abit wrong in favors shooting alot. I'd say 40k does favor shooting, but melee can be amazing in this game, and first turn charges are devasting..

i totally agree first turn charges are devastating to what they charge, but really how common is that going to be? my army for example has 8 units. i can only cult ambush 4 max, of those 4 only half the die rolls even put you in a possible charge position, so 2, of those 2 only 1/4th of the units will make their random charge roll. so on average (and yes I know those are fast and loose numbers so this is probably off a few percent) you're looking at getting one unit first turn charging every other game. And when you do manage to pull that one charge off the unit is isolated, has no means to escape back to shadows, while whatever it charged simply saunters away and deletes your GSC unit.

Just seems to me like if they took away the entire flavor of GSC because sometimes if you got real lucky fishing for good ambush rolls you could murder things. It's like taking power armor away from space marines.


The whole balance of a random table is you roll on it enough to fish for good results that the bad and the good even out. But they seemed to think it was an issue that sometimes it does go well for the GSC player. So now they're neutering the good and leaving only the randomness and where the best result you get is still not anywhere near the risk off the bad results, because we sure can't have any necron or tau players getting assaulted, that would just be unacceptable to the tournament community. Do any of the other deepstriking armies have to pick a random table edge? no, they get to make tactical decisions about their deep-strike (or whatever their particular armies calls it) ours gett's slapped in the junk if we use it and roll a 1-3, a result that is worse than if we'd just deployed them normally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Timeshadow wrote:
Has anyone considered adding tyranid genestealers instead of guard? Or adding one or two big bugs? Another question are tyranid and guard mutually exclusive in the gsc list or can we mix and match as long as we have more cult than other?

This was my plan, i was going to add some big nid bugs since our stuff is pretty squishy and now has to start on table and can't heal or leave (yet we still pay the same points after losing those rules, yes I'm salty) But here's the problem there. They've stated that your army benefits are going to be better the more specific your 'faction' and your army is of the faction that every unit has. For IG no prob because the rules address this by stating you still count as GSC faction, but for tyranid they don't, so if you take nids you are no longer a GSC faction and lose any benefits or command thingies for GSC. We haven't seen what they are yet, so who knows what you'll lose, but you will lose rules and they've said multiple times the more specific faction benefits are better than the broad ones.

Danny slag wrote:
(yet we still pay the same points after losing those rules, s.

No, we paid more.. :(

Danny slag wrote:

in response to rock grinders and goliaths, yet another shaft GSC got. They don't get cult ambush so now

They never got Cult Ambush...


TBH.. It was silly with 7th end where I would deploy first to get me first turn.. then only place a single Leman Russ tank, and then once my opponent deploys actually deploy my army via Infiltrate Ambush, and possibly get first blood before the game even started, and with how the Changes to Heavy Weapons and deep strike works in general, the old Mechanics for GSC would of been Overpowered. With how Morale works in this edition I plan to take 2 possibly 3 Patriarchs and then larger squads of Acolytes and Genestealers for the Immune to morale bubbles, then support them with units in Rockgrinders.. Stll need to paly around with points.. but as Characters and units 'deploy' as one as with units in Transports.. there is potential to really bring down the amount of 'units' to deploy and give a higher chance of 1st turn... But still need to play with the numbers



On the Question someone else asked if you could take Both Tyranids, and Guard with your GSC, the answer is No, as Tyranids and Guard do not share a Faction Key Word




1996pts

Patriarch 150

Patriarch 150

Patriarch 150

20 Acolytes 220
4 Rockcutter 92
3 Rock Drill 90
3 Handlfamer 24

5 Acolytes 55
Rockcutter 23
Rockdrill 30

5 Acolytes 55
Rockcutter 23
Rockdrill 30

18 Purestrain Genestealer 324

18 Purestrain Genestealer 324

Goliath Rockgrinder 94
Demo Cache 12
Clearance Incinarator 22

Goliath Rockgrinder 94
Demo Cache 12
Clearance Incinarator 22

With this list I plan on only have 8 deploying units.. which will give me greater chance of T1 the risk involved is only 3 units rolling on the Ambush table, I would be half tempted to walk with 1/2 and only risk 1 Ambush depending on what I was facing

Edit: Characters Ambush with a unit.. but still 'deploy' in Ambush separately for deployment

Danny slag wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:
First @Danny slag your abit wrong in favors shooting alot. I'd say 40k does favor shooting, but melee can be amazing in this game, and first turn charges are devasting..

i totally agree first turn charges are devastating to what they charge, but really how common is that going to be? my army for example has 8 units. i can only cult ambush 4 max, of those 4 only half the die rolls even put you in a possible charge position, so 2, of those 2 only 1/4th of the units will make their random charge roll. so on average (and yes I know those are fast and loose numbers so this is probably off a few percent) you're looking at getting one unit first turn charging every other game. And when you do manage to pull that one charge off the unit is isolated, has no means to escape back to shadows, while whatever it charged simply saunters away and deletes your GSC unit.

Just seems to me like if they took away the entire flavor of GSC because sometimes if you got real lucky fishing for good ambush rolls you could murder things. It's like taking power armor away from space marines.


The whole balance of a random table is you roll on it enough to fish for good results that the bad and the good even out. But they seemed to think it was an issue that sometimes it does go well for the GSC player. So now they're neutering the good and leaving only the randomness and where the best result you get is still not anywhere near the risk off the bad results, because we sure can't have any necron or tau players getting assaulted, that would just be unacceptable to the tournament community. Do any of the other deepstriking armies have to pick a random table edge? no, they get to make tactical decisions about their deep-strike (or whatever their particular armies calls it) ours gett's slapped in the junk if we use it and roll a 1-3, a result that is worse than if we'd just deployed them normally.

First turn charges are more common for genestealer cult than they are now, and the likely hood you'll get a good ambush is mines higher than now. In 7th you had a 1/6 chance to get a charge off, and from there you could be shot off the table before you had a chance to try again on top of that. This edition you have a 2/6 chance to come on the table how you want. The primus lets you reroll your result so it's a 2/6 rerolling which is pretty close to a 50/50 change in charge the turn your arrive. On top of that you can reroll 1 cult ambush per turn, so you have reroll multiple cult ambushes in one turn, and several over the course of the game. As some one who has been messing around with 8th since marchish i can say pretty confidently first turn charges are not unlikely. Having done 9 and gotten at least 1 turn one charge on 7 of those games..... it's pretty common. Basicly if you have a primus with his unit and a patriarch with another unit and you use the a command reroll on your patriarch your trying to roll a 5+ on 4d6 to get a turn one charge. Won't happen every time, but it should happen most times. Oh, i'll also add these 4d6 will work for 4 units as well as the primus and patriarch can bring units with them so if you get one good result that is two good turn one charges, and the primus and patriarch do work. (Edit to put it simply and to compare to 7th since for some reason you wish to do this, even though this game is pretty much rebuilt from the ground up. IF you had your units in the subterranian uprizes you would need to roll your 2 dice, go back into the shadows, and then roll your 2 dice again to get the same odds as you do in one turn of rerolling 5+ to get your charge off.)

A lot of folks are in this place where they are basicly saying "things are different from before... it's terrible." Having played it we are in a good place. It's less fishing all game playing wack amole until you can pull off a charge or praying your dudes don't get blasted off the table, and more just play the game and pretty much always get your cult ambush, and some times you ambush won't go as planned, and other times you get 2 turn 1 charges. Also note a whole host of armies will be doing turn 1 charges, we just get to do them with the lowest point investment or with the biggest and most versatile units.

GodDamUser wrote:





With this list I plan on only have 8 deploying units.. which will give me greater chance of T1 the risk involved is only 3 units rolling on the Ambush table, I would be half tempted to walk with 1/2 and only risk 1 Ambush depending on what I was facing

Edit: Characters Ambush with a unit.. but still 'deploy' in Ambush separately for deployment

Nice list, yeah characters in cars can be cool, but then your have a lot of points invested into a one place, and alpha strike list that out deploy you like teleport grey knights could give you trouble. WIth smite spam, and ability to open up your cars, while also having lots of points invested into expensive troop blocks. They could out deploy you and drop your cars and threaten you heros ( i say threaten as also killing them would be a bit tough, but good rolls could suck). Also cars are also vulnerable to being turn one charged. If i turn 1 charge your car, and give you no way to get out. Your rock grinder while it is tough in melee, only hitting 5+ and not having had charged will be hard pressed to get out of combat. I can keep a tarpit neophyte unit around your car for 4 or 5 turns preventing you from both retreating and from disembarking your models inside. You might consider instead the truck as you can not only fit more models, but atleast the acolytes inside you seem to wish to spam can shoot out with pistols to clear up any tarpit chaffe that want to surround you. I'd recommend flamers as then your to hit roll can be ignored as well.

Patriarchs are good and are one of our advantages over our tyranid brothers as he is cheaper and better. All your cult ambush in your list needs to roll that 5 or 6, but your low on primus. You can only reroll one die a turn ,and as such it might delay your desire to cult ambush longer than you might like. A primus will let you reroll 2 abmushes in a single turn when combined with a command point, as i mentioned earlier in this post.

(edit: don't load all up on upgrades. This is still a thing. The more upgrades you buy the more you are forced to rely on alpha strikes to land, and the less time you have. If you have alt he special weapons you can get your units will get turned to paste quickly, and you'll find yourself tabled in no time.

Edit 2: you didn't pay for heavy stubbers on your grinders. These aren't free.)

I'll post my most recent list. The way it preformed today i think i can safely sat this will be what i'll be refining going into 8th.


Patirarch.
Magus
Magus
Primus
Iconward

15 acolyte W/4x Drills
15 acolytes w/3x rock cutters
14 genestealers
20 Neophytes shotguns W/ 1 flamers

20 neophytes w/ 2xMining lasers
10 Neophytes w/ 2x mining laser
10 neophytes w/ 2x mining laser

Truck
Truck
Rock grinder w/ Clearance

So the rock grinder damage wise is okay??? Scout sentials do the flamer things waaaaaaay better, and it's neat when you charge and soaks damage well for your army to prevent some overwatch, but the real point of it is is that 1 or 2 iconwards and or both of the magus can jump inside the grinder so that i can bring my deployment down to 10.

Shotgun neophytes are great on the ambush as they are really consistent and work well with most cult ambush results. So they can drop early and clean stuff up. They do what the scout sentinels, but way better. On a bad ambush they'll kill a few marines and mess up a fire warrior squad pretty bad, but on a good roll they should be able to take out most other army's troops in one go. They can do better when paired with a magus and if they roll wellyou can charge with them and buff them up to really bully enemy troops, and lock units in thier transports.

Melee weapons really feel like they have to be stacked together. So i did that. One unit with the cutter is the best at taking out lords of war/vehicles/bg bads the better AP just gets you there. The drills are a little more versatile and can take out tough units or horde units as the mortal wounds spill over, and so they are a flex unit. The genestealer unit slice through all your basic troops and characters.