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I've always quite liked the Kroot aesthetic and think the plastic kit is holding up quite well considering its age.

What I didn't understand was why the Kroot hounds, the Krootox and the Kroot FW beasties all disappeared. I'd assume lack of sales, but they were a nearly "full" force at one point, including limited edition figures at Games Day etc.

I highly suspect they would simply look at Kroot box sales and nix it though.

Lots of great ideas here. Traitor guard etc should be incredibly easy to roll out. Kroot could be interesting, but I'm very ambivalent there. Personally, I'm adding my vote to the squats as well. They offer a truly different atmosphere to any other army. The only army that isn't completely depressingly grim/dark right now is the, very broken, orks. Squats get drunk and brawl and just seem fun! They look very different than existing armies, the have a history built in, they have an interesting battle style that is very complimented by the addition of super-heavies. I also think it was fantastic to have an army evolved from humanity the had 'real' engineers instead of superstitious priests..it gave humanity a bit more hope and ...well...humanity.

GW has already set the stage for their return with the Demiurg. Ideally I'd like to see them rolled out as their own independent army, but they could be tested as Tau allies.

GSC was considered terrible sales wise too and now its looking like a hit. All you need is creativity to get something done and to design it right and you can make anything cool.

Chaos exodites making slaves of darkness playable in 40k.

Fluff wise the Kroot are interesting it's their appearance that needs to be pushed into a cooler design point.

The redesigned Kroot as I imagine them would keep the general shape of the Kroot but would bulk it up a lot more and make them taller. The beak aspect would be tonned down a little and turned into more traditional jaws with just a hint of the beak from the old models.

Instead of wearing just leather armor their new fluff of wanting more technology means a more varied and interesting pallet of armors, weapons, and colors to pick from.

I would also give them cool masks that can be highly customized by players to represent which hunting clan and ship you operate out of. Kroot with plain masks that have no markings are criminals and exiles and considered dangerous.

Kroot Unblooded would wear only partial pieces of combat armor but it would look more sci fi like they got it from their glorious past and or a mix of new Tau plate designed for melee.

The more elite the Kroot the better armored until they have full hunting gear. The heaviest armor would be full suit of body armor but would retain its light easy to fight in aesthetic.

Kroot Hunting Clans Weaponry:

Melee: Ceremonial Daggers, combi-sticks, power glove, Kroot Empire Swords made form a unique metal they made at their peak that resist power weapons charge, shuriken (melee profile), wrist blades of the same material, scimitars, glaive, katana, mauls, and plasma scythe.

Ranged Weapons: Gauntlet Plasma gun, netgun, razor netgun which kills the target caught by retracting its wires to kill its foe, shoulder plasma gun, self destruct device, chakram, shurikens, spear gun (extremely accurate), chemical burner, plasma pistol, throwing mines, throwing laser mines (creates a grid of deadly cutting lasers making the terrain more dangerous), and Bleeder Speargun rounds for internal wounds.

In addition to this the more elite the Kroot the more trophies they have claimed. The higher the kroot go the more weapons they can use from other factions until the Elder Kroot Huntmaster (one of the HQ choices) can take a single artifact weapon from any book. The Huntsmaster is the position of the Chapter Master equivalent while the Clan Leader would be the equivalent to a Space Marine Captain.

I also like the suggestion put forth that as they kill stuff in battle they gain bonuses.

They would have special rules involving dueling enemy characters. I imagine they can scale from moderately skilled bands of 8-10 Unblooded and work their way up to highly elite squads of very customizable blooded (their standard warriors), and then elite hunters.

Did I just make the fan codex?

Fluff wise I would keep the old Kroot in the Tau dex but give them a rebox with some of the new models barring the Kroot Hunter stuff. This represents the Kroot who have joined the Tau Empire willingly. I would give them a few of the Kroot Empire weapons but not masks. These two groups of Kroot would be opposed to each other. The Kroot Hunters are dangerous vile technological monsters who hunt for fun and profit and seek to reestablish the Empire based around this. The Feral Kroot would be the ones from the current iteration. The Kroot Hunters see the ferals as primitive ugly savages who would doom their people to extinction or even servitude for life. Sort of how like we see Neanderthals today. The feral kroot even look more bird like than the Kroot Hunters like their primitive avian roots and the Kroot Hunters look down on them and even go out of their way to hunt them when they can. The Ferral kroot see the Hunters as the new reincarnation of the doom of their star faring empire which long predated the Tau. Kroot Hunters go out of their way not to adapt their form to what they eat and their shapers are tasked with making sure the stuff they eat perfects their current form to the best of its ability.

Edit
I haven't even touched on the whole Kroot Shapers and their new psychic powers or beasts yet.

TLDR
Dark Kroot.

Did I just make a fan codex?

You did, you most certainly did, it's a pretty damn cool one though!

Kroot are kinda cool, really. Squats would squash them though!

Thanks that's cool you like it. I wonder if GW would ever see this and decide to take inspiration from it. i would love to see the squats return as the Demiurg. Did you see the Battlefleet Gothic Tau trailer ending? It has a cool Demiurge ship and voice actor in it. Make it so GW!

Exodites are the only acceptable answer! We want dinosaur-riding laser knights!

Exodites, definately. If Harlies could make it to standalone codex, then so can Exodites. But I would be happy to get just a small release, the size of Militarum Tempestus...

 Vryce wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Kroot, 4-5 mentioned here. Do people really like them / want them?
I see them as grots personally, uninspired shoot offs?
Just me?

Nope, not just you. I've hated the Kroot since I first purchased the first Tau codex in 3rd ed. They look horrible, the rules are (and really have always been) horrible, and I'm not a big fan of the fluff. The concept has promise, but it was just badly implemented and modelled.

I'm not against people that want them having them as an army, should GW choose to offer it, but I am most certainly not a fan of the Kroot.

Er, a min squad of kroot can and will do more than a min squad of fire warriors. They can infiltrate, camp objectives and get cheap access to sniper rounds. Whilst a 5 man squad of warriors will do nothing, kroot have options. Also always plant objectives in forests if you've kroot. Btw I thought kroot sucked too until I played them and walked away pleasantly surprised, now I run them almost always in order to fill out my troop requirements.

I use the current Kroot in my army lists a lot too mostly to tone them down.

The FW are superior due to being cheaper and giving more points for the good toys in high end tournaments, but point for point the Kroot are superior. At one point before the Stormsurge and Riptide wing came out it was quite common to throw in Kroot instead of min FW squads because they acted as a good tar pit who could snipe. Breacher Teams in Devilfish were the go to troops to have in a list, but with the recent faq's about transports it nerfs them into oblivion and killed the new devilfish tau combo before it even had a chance to see play for more than a few months span.

So they are decent units all things considered and I consider them one of the moderate codex options.

I talk high end stuff a lot since that is what I read up on, but when I play I use casual lists. Well I did when I could get a game. It didn't really matter my competition around here was pretty limp. I got invited to a big game day in town and I'm trying to make plans to get to it though and see if there's anyone there who can offer a challenge. I'll start with my simple list and work my way up.

Arbites and a Nurgle-related Chaos with Lost and the Damned-like elements. Sisters are not selling enough for a plastic release. I think GW in general is not going to re-release models that already have metal/finecast kits including Eldar and other factions' specialist troops this and next year. They see much more sales potential in armies with no models available instead - like GSC and the minimized Harlequin range which were both full armies in the first years of 40k and then got marginalized by the design studio of the 2nd Ed era.

Squats are in the current fluff again but I cannot see GW bringing them back with rules and models, espescially now with Mantic and others having product to cope with the interest. Sales numbers are too small for GW I think.

I would not be surprised if GW is going to release more super-heavy kits in 2018, if not earlier, after they bought new plastic production machines recently. Thunderhawks and Warhounds, more building kits.

And new Knights for Eldar expanding into a fully fleshed-out Exodite army focussed on Knights and not only dinosaurs - as depicted in the original, 80s Epic fluff. Wraithknights getting sold with another sprue, or even a new kit for Destroyer Knights. Then some Dragon Knight dinosaur cavalry and an HQ on Dragon, plus a big dinosaur kit.

Ordo Hereticus + Sisters to round out the 3 main branches of the inquisition and their associated military force. Could very easily tie in a traitor guard codex/campaign book with a planet falling to chaos corruption and the Sisters, Guard, and Inq are fighting a mixture of Traitor Guard, Chaos Cultists, and possible Daemons.

Warhams-77 wrote:


I would not be surprised if GW is going to release more super-heavy kits in 2018, if not earlier, after they bought new plastic production machines recently. Thunderhawks and Warhounds, more building kits.

And new Knights for Eldar expanding the range into a fully fleshed-out Exodite army focussed on Knights and not only dinosaurs as depicted in the original, pre-90s fluff. Wraithknights getting sold with another sprue, or even a new kit for Destroyer Knights. Then some Dragon Knights cavalry and an HQ on Dragon, plus a big dinosaur kit.

I could see another GSC vehicle further down the line.
There will be some kind of new SM vehicle and or flyers that will be written into fluff. Ad mech could get something else. And if chaos gets some love you could see these as dual kits for dark mechanicus units.

Some kind of militia units in plastic would be great for Guard, Traitors and GSC.

aith units and super killy tau kits are a definite possibility.

I think with the sisters it's a bit a loop; nobody buys them because they're mostly all metal and have little options, which in turn makes GW think that nobody is interested in them. But if they build them people will come...

Literally the only thing stopping me from collecting sisters is the old all metal range. There's nothing wrong with it (in fact it still looks amazing after all these years) but I like working in plastic as much as possible.

They need fliers...and a proper battle tank. Also, this is just me, but I'd like to see them using more 'IG' style vehicles. Like, their own version of a Taurox Prime (a flamer/melta packing one) and maybe even their own Valkyries.

Fix Orks first.

I just want to see them become popular

 Gamgee wrote:
I use the current Kroot in my army lists a lot too mostly to tone them down.

The FW are superior due to being cheaper and giving more points for the good toys in high end tournaments, but point for point the Kroot are superior. At one point before the Stormsurge and Riptide wing came out it was quite common to throw in Kroot instead of min FW squads because they acted as a good tar pit who could snipe. Breacher Teams in Devilfish were the go to troops to have in a list, but with the recent faq's about transports it nerfs them into oblivion and killed the new devilfish tau combo before it even had a chance to see play for more than a few months

What transport nerf? And when were breachers ever a better option than strike teams? Situationally they can be on par but i'd never consider them better, a fun alternative yes but no way better.

As for kroot I'd actually like something more along the lines of the vibe the old kroot mercenary codex had. Multiple adaptions and a sort of "native american/first nations" theme with the ancestor worship and communion, natural wellbeing and the shamans. A little technology wouldn't go amiss, but I wouldn't take it as far as a whole predator esque theme. The kroot abandoned technology for a reason. Definitely wouldnt be a fan of a lightning bird or rabdom beasties though. The pred themes a really cool idea but I dont think it fits the idea of the kroot. Maybe my headcanons different to others

SideSwipe wrote:
Fix Orks first.

I just want to see them become popular

Its OrkZ
fixed.



If I have to pick someone to bring back, maybe it is safer to not ask for SoB because they may bring them in close to another edition... so my choice is: Arbites. Small release, fits nicely with GSC, could also use wheeled vehicles ( I love Tanks but we need more wheels ).

Bobug wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I use the current Kroot in my army lists a lot too mostly to tone them down.

The FW are superior due to being cheaper and giving more points for the good toys in high end tournaments, but point for point the Kroot are superior. At one point before the Stormsurge and Riptide wing came out it was quite common to throw in Kroot instead of min FW squads because they acted as a good tar pit who could snipe. Breacher Teams in Devilfish were the go to troops to have in a list, but with the recent faq's about transports it nerfs them into oblivion and killed the new devilfish tau combo before it even had a chance to see play for more than a few months

What transport nerf? And when were breachers ever a better option than strike teams? Situationally they can be on par but i'd never consider them better, a fun alternative yes but no way better.

As for kroot I'd actually like something more along the lines of the vibe the old kroot mercenary codex had. Multiple adaptions and a sort of "native american/first nations" theme with the ancestor worship and communion, natural wellbeing and the shamans. A little technology wouldn't go amiss, but I wouldn't take it as far as a whole predator esque theme. The kroot abandoned technology for a reason. Definitely wouldnt be a fan of a lightning bird or rabdom beasties though. The pred themes a really cool idea but I dont think it fits the idea of the kroot. Maybe my headcanons different to others

The "proper" way to play Tau is to bring minimum troop units of Fire Warriors with pulse rifles to meet the minium requirements and spam Riptides and Stormsurges until your blue in the face (like Tau)

But seriously I haven't really heard of Breachers being used in competitive builds. The nerf he is referring to is a jinking transport making the passangers snap fire so basically it will be very unlikely that the Breachers will get into their S6 AP3 face melt range without ending up snap firing or the Devilfish is a crater/scrap and the passangers pinned or possibly falling back from an explosion.

Well currently that is the way to do it. The top tau list at one tournament incorporated an Ethereal, two min squads of breachers, and devilfish for them. I think he had three Y'vahrah and two stormsurges as well or basically some combo of all this.

The army hit hard and fast and it was good enough to put him into 16th place of this ITC tourney which is one of the biggest of the year if memory recalls. It's been a long time since I've read the posts about it though. This makes him the top Tau list to reach as high as he did with our new update. This is also as high as we've reached since then. Eldar, Necrons, Chaos Deamons, and Space Marine Battle Comany and deathstar lists were all too powerful to be beat by any Tau list. As power creep set in the Super friends (space marines allies deathstar) got even more powerful with the space marine supplement earlier this year planting them firmly as the top army in the game by a mile. Even Eldar struggle with the sheer ridiculous stupid OP that is the space marine deathstar.

Then the faq's came along and gg now its just firewarriors. The only thing keeping Tau semi relevant in the competitive scene these days is tipple Y'vahrah spam. I sure hope FW makes us some super OP formations and units since we need them badly. As crazy as the Y'vahrah is it needs to be buffed, the R'verna needs to be unnerfed and buffed, and the XV9's need buffs across the board. Then on top of that we need good FW formations to be relevant again. Something to really make us mobile and get us capturing some objectives. Also the Ta'unar could use some resistance to grav weapons since its a titan and gets so roflstomped by grav spam its better to take two Stormsurges since it adds up to more total wounds in a unit of two. Also the taunars missile system primary weapon needs to be made more powerful since right now its a 60 pound downgrade that takes away the d blast for a single strength 10 apocalyptic mega blast (lol) that quickly gets weaker the further from the center of the blast marker it is. Something I would expect to see on a regular old tank its so gakky of a shot.

Edit
What pisses me off is the ITC didn't decide to use Death From the Sky. An IG player came up with an ingenious Elysian Drop Trooper list that spammed a ton of Vendetta's in squadrons and then used the drop troopers to objective secure objectives. His list put out so much firepower it shredded every single deathstar in the meta since they had no anti-air. The flyers were so powerful with DFTS the book had almost universally been banned now. It's too bad I loved seeing all those deathstar playing space marine players and eldar cheesers get what for.

Im gunna go on a whim here and say it wasnt the breachers that won him the game there lol... I understand you dont play alot but breachers really arent effective compared to strike teams. Especially min squad with overpriced devilfish. Strike teams would have been more effective for the same cost. I wouldnt say tau need anything more powerful, just a bump to the crappy units in the codex and a devilfish cost reduction. SM+ally deathstars have and will be a thing for a long time and necrons/eldar are all round very powerful (infact eldar jetbikes and knights are anyway) the tau titans weapons are indeed a bit dafuq

He posted on these forums explaining it himself. He said they were really good and underrated. So no your wrong sir. The opponents underestimated them as useless and never targeted them and he got them right up in their faces and then they became a very high target especially with the ethereal adding shots to them. Taking pressure off of the rest of his army. They also helped camp objectives when they could and were good at in in a defensive role.

Thanks that's cool you like it. I wonder if GW would ever see this and decide to take inspiration from it. i would love to see the squats return as the Demiurg. Did you see the Battlefleet Gothic Tau trailer ending? It has a cool Demiurge ship and voice actor in it. Make it so GW!

I do, you put some really good work in there. I really hope GW follows this stuff...they'd be asses not to. I did not see that, but I will be looking that trailer up the second I'm finished posting this.

 Gamgee wrote:


Revamping the Kroot to be more like Predators look wise, rule wise, and technology wise will be more interesting. There's just nothing interesting that can be done with their current fluff about minor adaptations. The whole beak thing doesn't look too cool when it's turned into other things. Look at the greater gnarloc thing could have been a cool dinosaur instead had that big dumb beak.

Beaks are kinda integral to them. They're literally from a planet called Pech (geddit!?!? )

I never said remove the beaks, but de-emphasize them a little.

Given the popularity of Eldar and Seraphon, combining the two into Exodites would be smart business for Geedubs. Adepta Sororitas would probably sell incredibly well if they got the same love and dedication that all the other new/redone armies have gotten in 7th Edition. Custodes is another. I can't see them doing Squats or Zoats or anything like that, but who knows with the current design team.

Honestly almost all the armies mentioned in here sound like with a proper vision and a team that is passionate about them can be made into a cool army.

Edit
In a lot of art the Kroot art the jaws are more slender and menacing looking compared to the very broad dopey looking beaks and jaws they currently have on the models and in a good chunk of the art. I would want them to look more like that but more slender looking and a little smaller. It would give them a more sleek and carnivorous appearance, but I would want to keep its beak look.

Primarchs was my first guess until I read Gamgee post. Now I think Kroot would be great and or add in more Tau Auxalliary or what ever it's called where other races and humans are with them as well.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Probably space skaven so they can sort of push Slaanesh away if that's what they want to do.