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Hi guys.

Long time reader, first time writer. I've Come to that time of the year where I want to start af New army. I have some looks at rotbringers and sylvaneth. But I keep coming back to tzeentch. I really like the look of their deamons and some of the New arcanites, espicially the ogroid thaumaturge!
My question now is: What is your experience playing with or versus a tzeentch army.
Are they Any good or did the rule of 1 on spells hit Them too hard?
And also, is it better to go for at mortal tzeentch army and aim for the fatesworn warband, an alle deamon army or is it better to mix and get the Best of both worlds?
I have never played with or against them so I hope you guys can help:-)
Cheers!

I've played against pure tzeentch daemons a few times.
Each game the damage they have thrown out is very good and have caused me constant headaches every game.

Horrors are a solid battleline unit with good shooting.

Flamers put out an ungodly amount of damage through shooting, but are fairly high on points.

Screamers are amazing for killing warmachine crew, lone characters and in bigger groups, taking out monsters.

Lords of change can cast pretty much anything they like, reliably.
Fateweaver does this even better.
Both have a signature spell that causes a ton of mortal wounds.

Blue scribes are amazing.
Cheap on points and can cast a spell each turn on a 2+ that's counted as casting value 9.



In regards to magic, take characters that have different signature spells and the rule of 1 won't be an issue.
Just have to work round it like that.

Hi Jackal
Thank you for your reply. What is your experience with the burning chariots? On paper i think they look very solid, especially since they count as battleline units.
I had not thought about the blue scribes, but that sounds awsome, 4+ to reroll casting attemtps sounds great.

Very viable. And the Burning Chariot is worth a look, but keep it out of close combat (not usually an issue with its speed!).

I have fought Tzeentch forces many, many times - if you are interested, this is a battle report (https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/battle-report-retrieve-the-relic/) I played against a combined mortal and daemon Tzeentch force holed up in a Dreadhold. Nasty!

I play Tzeentch daemons, I the mortals don't really capture the flavour for me.

The one spell per turn is fine, having each unit of horrors throw an arcane bolt was too good and there are plenty of unique spells around.

Tzeench daemons are soft and have to rely on tricks, speed and/or spell to win. This does not make them bad, but tricky and captures the flavor I mentioned above.

MongooseMatt wrote:
Very viable. And the Burning Chariot is worth a look, but keep it out of close combat (not usually an issue with its speed!).

I have fought Tzeentch forces many, many times - if you are interested, this is a battle report (https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2016/04/05/battle-report-retrieve-the-relic/) I played against a combined mortal and daemon Tzeentch force holed up in a Dreadhold. Nasty!

Very cool battle rep Matt. Looked like a great battle, though a bit random due to the scenario thanks!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkBlack wrote:
I play Tzeentch daemons, I the mortals don't really capture the flavour for me.

The one spell per turn is fine, having each unit of horrors throw an arcane bolt was too good and there are plenty of unique spells around.

Tzeench daemons are soft and have to rely on tricks, speed and/or spell to win. This does not make them bad, but tricky and captures the flavor I mentioned above.

Thank you for your reply. Do you mind shedding some light on what kind of lists you are using, at 1k and 2k games?

Sure.

The required number of pink horror units (the minimum is usually enough) and I always take the changeling now.
I like the changeling's fluff and his(?) abilities provide an answer to very powerful models and being able to deploy him with your opponent's army lets you get to grips with war machines in turn 1 (and/or summon something in the opponent's deployment zone).

LoC is awesome, but in 1000pts games uses a lot of points, so I go for the blue scribes, to make horrors reroll casting or use his 2+ instead. The scribes are great too, esp if they get infernal gateway from the LoC.

Have a summoning pool (rather than choosing between screamers, flamers or a mix), the versatility (in terms of list and "deployment") is amazing and you have access to enough casters and reliable casting to negate the risk.
I figure that a 280 point in reserve is a good number (maybe adjust for 1000pts games). It gives you 2 units of horrors and/or screamers, 2 heralds (or exalted flamer) or a herald and a daemon prince (or burning chariot).

Flamers are expensive, so I usually leave them for bigger games. You already have loads of mortal wound dealing spells and shooting.

I've played Tzeentch Daemons a few times in AOS: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/696968.page

Overall I've found them fairly middling, however when they work they really work. But then I also don't have my Lord of Change table ready nor do I do a very good job of taking heroes with different magic spells (meaning I tend to get hosed by the Rule of 1), so essentially I'm running an army with mediocre shorter-ranged firepower (apart from those D3 damage spikes on Flamers / Chariots), no rend, and typically poor combat abilities beyond its monsters. Which is what it is.

MongooseMatt wrote:
Very viable. And the Burning Chariot is worth a look, but keep it out of close combat (not usually an issue with its speed!).

Burning Chariots have been brilliant for me, running two of them in tandem has helped me dominate flanks and chunk out some focused firepower.

- Salvage

Close combat is definitely not Tzeentch's strong suit, screamers can do some work (the locus makes them quite tanky), but you must (and have the speed to) pick your targets.

There is not much rend (mosters have some), but I find that generating mortal wounds from spells makes up for that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I've played Tzeentch Daemons a few times in AOS: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/696968.page

- Salvage

Thanks for the reports!

A LoC would help you out, but a quicker (and also useful option) it to get (or convert horrors into) some heralds. They will give you extra spells to cast and getting the locus abilities activated will really help too. Their tomes (use 3D6 to cast once per game) can help with getting some use from summoning.

 DarkBlack wrote:
Have a summoning pool (rather than choosing between screamers, flamers or a mix), the versatility (in terms of list and "deployment") is amazing and you have access to enough casters and reliable casting to negate the risk.

Don't forget about the 1st Rule of One.

 Ghaz wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
Have a summoning pool (rather than choosing between screamers, flamers or a mix), the versatility (in terms of list and "deployment") is amazing and you have access to enough casters and reliable casting to negate the risk.

Don't forget about the 1st Rule of One.

That just means that you have to use variety if you want to summon multiple units in the same turn, or fate may force you hand into a different option than you would have preferred.
For example, if you need a herald and fail the spell "summon herald of Tzeentch", you'll have to cast "Summon herald on disc" and make do, or if you want to bring in 2 heralds in the same turn, then one will have to be on foot and the other on a disc.

Thank you all for your replies and giving your 2 cents. I apreciate it!

I have been working on some lists and come up with a mix of mortal and deamons. It goes as follows:

Leaders:
Lord of change (general)
Ogroid taumaturge
Herald of tzeentch

Battleline:
10 warriors of chaos
2×10 horrors

The rest:
6 flamers or 2×3
3 varanguard
5 chaos knigts

1980 point in total.
The idea is to have the leaders throw a but load of mortal wounds each hero phase to high priority targets, and hopefully getting arcane shield on varanguard. Soften units up with shooting from horrors and flamers and afterwords charging with warriors, knights or varanguard.
What do you Guys think?

Cheers

I play Tzeentch (demons+mortals) but don't have enough stuff painted to really give a good answer to this. Flamers are amazing but very expensive. They HIGHLY benefit from the Chaos Sorcerer Lords Demonic Power spell to give them re-rolls on 1s to hit, to wound. and save. Especially in a group of 6.

I've used my Horrors in a blob of 30. With Inspiring Prescence on them combined with the fact that they stay back, most opponents don't take them out and many don't bother to try. With Demonic Power they put out a huge amount of wounds. They're expensive though... see the theme here?

As for your list, I don't think Varanguard are great without Archaon on the table. Very cool models though.

I'm really looking forward to Tzeentch Arcanites Battletome so I can run Kairic Acolytes and Tzaangor and above all get new spells and abilities!