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 Jancoran wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
CSM aspiring champs need +1 wound.

Exarchs of all things got two wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Eldar get that along with BS/WS5 and cool equipment because reasons

Eldar are not intentionally designed to lose against SM.

Nor are Chaos Space Marines.

That's how the codex operates though. It needs a severe rewriting. I'll fully admit the supplement helped, but really it did just reinforce the good choices being good and little helped anyone else.

 koooaei wrote:
CSM aspiring champs need +1 wound.

This is a very good idea
WS 5/ BS 5, +2A, I5, Free Mark. Champion and squad must be marked the same.

Aspiring Champions should be equal to minor HQs, with leaders being some of the strongest in the game outside of SCs and Daemons.
Princes should be terrifying and expensive. Fantasy does such a better job with Chaos for a variety of reasons

Akiasura wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
CSM aspiring champs need +1 wound.

This is a very good idea
WS 5/ BS 5, +2A, I5, Free Mark. Champion and squad must be marked the same.

Aspiring Champions should be equal to minor HQs, with leaders being some of the strongest in the game outside of SCs and Daemons.
Princes should be terrifying and expensive. Fantasy does such a better job with Chaos for a variety of reasons

The greatest slight in my opinion is that Chaos Lord equivalent to a Chapter Master. Despite Chapter masters falling to Chaos. Also why no artificer armor? Chaos somehow managed to maintain Terminator armor, after all.

Cost aside - How does using FW models impact the balance and efficacy of Chaos? Seems they have some pretty good options in FW.

Also are the DFTS rules for fliers any good for Chaos Heldrakes ?

CSM has Battle Brother access to Chaos Daemons. Who are very abusable. Hence CSM are sub par. If they were good they would be crazy OP when coupled with Daemons.

Akiasura wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
CSM aspiring champs need +1 wound.

This is a very good idea
WS 5/ BS 5, +2A, I5, Free Mark. Champion and squad must be marked the same.

Aspiring Champions should be equal to minor HQs, with leaders being some of the strongest in the game outside of SCs and Daemons.
Princes should be terrifying and expensive. Fantasy does such a better job with Chaos for a variety of reasons

I like this. One of my problems with CSM is that aspiring champions are basically SM sergeants, and making them scarier (probably with an appropriate price bump) would make them more interesting.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
CSM aspiring champs need +1 wound.

This is a very good idea
WS 5/ BS 5, +2A, I5, Free Mark. Champion and squad must be marked the same.

Aspiring Champions should be equal to minor HQs, with leaders being some of the strongest in the game outside of SCs and Daemons.
Princes should be terrifying and expensive. Fantasy does such a better job with Chaos for a variety of reasons

I like this. One of my problems with CSM is that aspiring champions are basically SM sergeants, and making them scarier (probably with an appropriate price bump) would make them more interesting.

Agreed, when I bought chaos in 3.5 (they were my 3rd army) I wanted a hero hammer based force. In that edition, I got it. The leaders were very dangerous, and the troops were too, but overall my army was small unless I used daemons (who were very cheap). It felt like Chaos, where a few powerful figures lead a deamonically powered elite force that is hard to fight. Chaos marines should be tougher but fewer when compared to marines, relying on cultists and daemons for numbers. Slightly cheaper originally makes no sense, how can there be more legions then current marines given their infrastructure and geneseed issues? Why turn to chaos if you get weaker?

I don't know if its to cater to the fans. In fantasy, Chaos Champs can fight heroes if they don't bring magic equipment. A chaos lord is a terror, and can buzz throw most enemy armies (not in AoS, I'm just getting into it with Skaven and can't comment). When you challenge and win it feels good, and feels like a proper chaos force. A few people could fight them, Vampires, Lizzies, Dwarves, some dark elf builds if they went magic heavy, but they were generally seen as the gold standard and top of the heap.
Not so in 40k. Since 5th, they've been near the bottom for combat potential, which is just sad.

Yeah Champs are below Lords and Sorcs, but they are ambitious moffos who are working their way up the food chain, and not waiting for a promotion, they are in a constant competition with the others to stand above them all, it should reflect in their profil/rules.

either 2Wounds and a 6++ save, or increased WS/BS and some LD reroll...

Could make a "trait" for them really, for X pts the Champ as the Brutal Leader trait, wich boost his base stats, or the Cunning Legionaire who boosts his LD capabilities and add a special rule...