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Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 Voidwraith wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Why not put him on a bike with some gravbikes. He can still fix a lr and they can support your tank providing much needed grav.


I'm down with having him ride in the LR with 3 servitors. 2+ to repair without a chance to remove the techmarine / servitors sounds good to me.


The servo harness is actually quite nasty.
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

So I've managed to spend some time looking over this and a few thing's have sprung to mind. If you don't play 2k you can pretty much forget most of the book as the buy in's are just too much for the detachments and most of the formations.
The DS and charge stuff isn't that great and will fall by the way side after a short period of time once players get over the shock. If you can accept these 2 thing's then you might have some joy.

One of the good thing's that I quite like is the LBSF. If you like your DC you're in for a treat and I think we'll see more of these than the demi-company's. If you like your armour then the Lucifer Armoured Task Force is going to make your day as well and I believe that a combination of these 2 will make up the best of this book and will make the core of any competitive BA lists if such a thing will ever really exist. It's just so mobile and has some solid armour in it as well. I just can't see past it at the moment.

As for the demi-company's I so want them to be good as it would mean that the 3 tacs squads that i usually take could actually do something but GW said no to that. I think unless you go DC then it's CAD + X auxilluary and Y command at best.

I unfortunately don't play in a group that play's 2k anymore and formation's etc are frowned upon and charge from DS was laughed out the park so most of this is wasted upon me.

From a fluff perspective I love this as there is no mention of Machiavi's 3rd company which is what I'm working on. This give's me 2 campaign's worth of time at least before they return to Baal so swings and round-about's i suppose.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




We don't know how the Armageddon war and Shield of Baal overlap. So the 3rd could still be on Armageddon, Hell Tycho might not have died just yet.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




The demi-company is actually my preferred gateway to the angel's blade. I was initially very pissed about the overlap in rules, and I'm still not thrilled, but the demi-company does pick up zealot for adding a land speeder. Furthermore, things like assault squads and golden hosts pick up all those rules for being in the angel's blade. Yes, it's not nearly as good as the gladius, but it's not as useless as I originally thought. I just have had to modify my play to use red thirst instead of obj sec.

This means going a bit old school to me. Squads become a bit more like life support systems for vet sergeants swinging power weapons. Yes, there's challenging still, but we're fast enough to pick our battles and the demi-company will have grav cannons in the field to kill the worst offenders. Vet sergeants charging at init 5 S5 AP 3 4 attacks potentially rerolling misses is not bad output on top of the heavy flamer the squad will have.

Lucifer armored task force is also nice. Fast crusaders and redeemers are much closer to justifying the points. Preds with free overcharged engines are quite nice as well.

I'm still thinking of the best way to use the assault from DS formations.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Martel732 wrote:

I'm still thinking of the best way to use the assault from DS formations.


I've played with ds termies 3 times so far and fragioso in beacon pods worked every time. The enemy is forced to either shoot empty pods to avoid scatter-less termies and than sufer the 2-d round from dreads or shoot the dreads and than meet scatter-less termies. Termies have a good threat range. You can get the squad of 5 up to 9.(999)" from the pod without scatter. Easy to cut the opponent off.

Though i used a bunker with comms relay every game and comms relay payed off greatly. Bunker was also neat for sniper+hb scouts to sit in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/14 21:33:40


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Hmm.. Imperial bunker.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




The Defense Line would be a much cheaper way to do that.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






I used the bunker from wall of martyrs - that's 55 pts for av 14 with 8 shooting points. + 20 for comms relay. It's nice not only to scrore a point and provide reserve re-rolls but also to be a blos to sang guards or bikers.

Though, i've run sang guard 2 times and they didn't do much. First game, all was over before they got to the enemy and the second one they got killed with obli plazma. So, dc actually did more for me than sang guard. Grav bikes were also hit or miss. They did absolutely nothing one game and payed off another one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 12:44:55


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Nobody is surprised Death company did more than Sanguine Guard. Sanguine Guard are bad.

So if you're using the one from the wall, how much are you actually paying total?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Grav bikes always do something for me.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nobody is surprised Death company did more than Sanguine Guard. Sanguine Guard are bad.

So if you're using the one from the wall, how much are you actually paying total?


1850.

termie formation, hq, tac marines in a pod, scouts, 3*3 bikes, 2 fragioso in pods, sang guards, bunker with comms. Also tried devs and 2 squads of dc instead of bikes. Both pod marines and fragioso are pretty neat for the points. All 3 pods have beacons cause it's sometimes better to drop 2 dreads or marines. Or sometimes just empty pods.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 16:15:11


 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






LBSF and Lucifer Armored Task Force has some great synergy, enough that frontlinegaming put up a sample list for it. Might be on to something there, though I definitely understand what Martel likes about the demi company. Here's a list I've been toying with.

Lost Brotherhood Strike Force

Command
-Death Company Chaplain

Death Company Strike Force
-Death Company Chaplain
Gilded Crozius
Warlord

-10x Death Company
2 power fists
Jump packs

-5x Death Company
Power fist
Jump packs

-5x Death Company
Power fist
Jump packs

-Death Company Dreadnought
Magna grapples
Blood talons
Drop pod

10th Company Ambush Force
-5x Scouts
Shotguns

-5x Scouts
Shotguns

-5x Scouts
Combat blades
Melta bomb

Lucifer Armored Tast Force
-Techmarine
Bp/ccw

-Land Raider Redeemer

-Baal Predator
Assault cannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

-Baal Predator
Assault cannon
Heavy bolter sponsons

-Predator
Autocannon
Lascannon sponsons

1850

The combat scout squad goes with the techmarine in the raider. Honestly I'm loving the 10th company formation. Our scouts are surprisingly useful on the charge, and it's a cheap way to get extra bodies.

I'm interested to see Martel's list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 16:41:30


5,000
:cficon: 1,500 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 koooaei wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nobody is surprised Death company did more than Sanguine Guard. Sanguine Guard are bad.

So if you're using the one from the wall, how much are you actually paying total?


1850.

termie formation, hq, tac marines in a pod, scouts, 3*3 bikes, 2 fragioso in pods, sang guards, bunker with comms. Also tried devs and 2 squads of dc instead of bikes. Both pod marines and fragioso are pretty neat for the points. All 3 pods have beacons cause it's sometimes better to drop 2 dreads or marines. Or sometimes just empty pods.

It might very well have been worth just taking empty pods instead of the Tactical Marines. Scouts are just considerably better, and that's more points to spend on them.

Otherwise, it is fairly easy to get more Fast Attack slots for the Bikers and you just need to add another HQ. Pretty easy to do but I'd need the exact list to make the fix.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






I'm yet to regret taking a 5-strong squad of marines with HF and FC in a pod that i need anyway.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




The first thing I've tried is to leverage in multiple librarians using Angel's Blade:

Tac squad, 6 guys
Heavy flamer
Vet sarge w/power sword
Rhino w/dozer blade

Tac squad, 6 guys
Heavy flamer
Vet sarge w/power sword
Rhino w/dozer blade

Tac squad, 5 guys
Combi-melta
Meltagun
Drop pod

Dreadnought
heavy flamer
assault cannon
Drop pod

Biker squad, 4 guys
2 X grav gun
Combi-grav

Captain
Bike
Power Fist
Auspex
Artificer armor
Vertias Vitae
Storm Shield

Command squad
3 X melta gun
3 X storm shield
Drop pod

Devastator squad
2 X grav cannon
Combi-plasma
2 X heavy bolter
Cherub thingie
Rhino w/dozer blade

Mephiston w/command squad
Chooses librarius

LV 2 Libby w/ command squad
Force Axe
Auspex
Chooses sanguinius

LV 2 libby w/bikers
Force sword
Bike
Chooses based off opponent

Land speeder
Typhoon launchers

I don't have the list at work, but I think that's it. At 2K, I add a priest to the bikers and some extra stuff. The weakest part to me is the regular dread, but even that is only because of lack of magna grapple. I'm not a huge fan of being forced to drop everything in my opponent's face turn 1/2 and I think this list reflects that. I can drop a flank or dangerous vehicles, but I've got enough mobile shooting to whittle down choppier armies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/15 17:40:20


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Why the power sword and not a claw?
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 koooaei wrote:
Why the power sword and not a claw?


Modeling. I'm adding claw sergeants to my list of to-dos.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 17:50:16


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Probably doesn't have the model. It happens.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I beat necrons with this list; quickened Mephiston is a beast vs them. And Mephiston rolled up null zone, so the Wraiths all died horribly super quickly to him. I had unleash rage as well, which was just extra fun. I don't think zealot every activated for Mephy's squad, either.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/15 17:59:25


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Sword vs Claw without to-hits. Left - sword, right - claw
Charge:
t3: 3.333 - 2.917
t4: 2.667 - 2.667
t5: 2 - 2.25
t6: 1.333 - 1.667
t7, t8: 0.667 - 0.917

No charge:
t3: 2 - 1.778
t4: 1.5 - 1.5
t5: 1 - 1.111
t6-7: 0.5 - 0.611
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




In most cases, the claw is better. I'm not disputing that. The sword has worked well enough so far.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Glad to hear you beat crons with it. That's a pity they on'thave obsec. Should have had it.
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






I've actually found crons to be a solid matchup for us. We actually bring enough offensive power to crack through their defenses.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 18:35:46


5,000
:cficon: 1,500 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 th3maninblak wrote:
I've actually found crons to be a solid matchup for us. We actually bring enough offensive power to crack through their defenses.


It's because they can't shoot us the table like Tau/Eldar/Centstar. If enough BA get to most lists, bad things happen.
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






Martel732 wrote:
 th3maninblak wrote:
I've actually found crons to be a solid matchup for us. We actually bring enough offensive power to crack through their defenses.


It's because they can't shoot us the table like Tau/Eldar/Centstar. If enough BA get to most lists, bad things happen.


The same logic applies to battle companies. They can't reliably shoot us off the table before we get there, and we have he killing potential to actually crack through their defenses (in the Company casy, massed 3+ save bodies.)

Furthermore I think the LBSF can take on most non invisibility reliant deathstars. 6 attacks at ws/init/str5 with hatred and shred per 23 point model is obscene if you can get it there.

5,000
:cficon: 1,500 
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

Agreed on the LBSF, but where is the shred coming from?
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






kryczek wrote:
Agreed on the LBSF, but where is the shred coming from?


Easier to type than "reroll to wound." Death co chaplains give rerolls to hit and wound on the charge now.

5,000
:cficon: 1,500 
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

Aaah cheer's.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Martel732 wrote:
The first thing I've tried is to leverage in multiple librarians using Angel's Blade:

Spoiler:
Tac squad, 6 guys
Heavy flamer
Vet sarge w/power sword
Rhino w/dozer blade

Tac squad, 6 guys
Heavy flamer
Vet sarge w/power sword
Rhino w/dozer blade

Tac squad, 5 guys
Combi-melta
Meltagun
Drop pod

Dreadnought
heavy flamer
assault cannon
Drop pod

Biker squad, 4 guys
2 X grav gun
Combi-grav

Captain
Bike
Power Fist
Auspex
Artificer armor
Vertias Vitae
Storm Shield

Command squad
3 X melta gun
3 X storm shield
Drop pod

Devastator squad
2 X grav cannon
Combi-plasma
2 X heavy bolter
Cherub thingie
Rhino w/dozer blade

Mephiston w/command squad
Chooses librarius

LV 2 Libby w/ command squad
Force Axe
Auspex
Chooses sanguinius

LV 2 libby w/bikers
Force sword
Bike
Chooses based off opponent

Land speeder
Typhoon launchers


I don't have the list at work, but I think that's it. At 2K, I add a priest to the bikers and some extra stuff. The weakest part to me is the regular dread, but even that is only because of lack of magna grapple. I'm not a huge fan of being forced to drop everything in my opponent's face turn 1/2 and I think this list reflects that. I can drop a flank or dangerous vehicles, but I've got enough mobile shooting to whittle down choppier armies.



It would seem to me you could get something very similar with a double BSF, but with more flexibility in unit choice. Or is Zealot worth pursuing?
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






No, he would have had to take an extra troop. And tbh, the zealot thing is pretty dope.

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