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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/06 20:52:32
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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That'd be why the Lance is more interesting.
You're either already winning the combat and going to sweep, and if they're in combat with something else they can't win against they won't cause enough wounds to matter.
Death company are one of those few places I approve of the Power Lance.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/06 23:11:16
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:You always go 1 Fist per five Death Company.
Otherwise, the Axe or Maul or Lance provide interesting opportunities. Regular sword is garbage on them.
The sword has its place rerolling to hit and to wound on DC. I have some modeled, but no lances. Close enough for me.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/06 23:13:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 07:36:46
Subject: Re:More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Angry Blood Angel Assault marine
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I always thought the lance was sorta custom designed for things like bikes or units with hit and run. I hadn't ever actually considered it for my DC, but I could definitely see the benefits against units that I had a high probability of sweeping. I'll keep that one in mind. Might make for some neat modeling actually.
Thanks for the info. I'm gonna keep monkeying around with my list and see what I can make. I had this idea that it would be fun to just have army wide FNP using primarily LBSF with an additional CAD with some troops for obsec and a coupla sanguinary priests, maybe a command squad or something. Probably wouldn't be very good, but I really wanna put some of those priests to work.
Probably more questions later as well. Toodles
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ALL HAIL THE ORKISSIAH, TRINARY SPEAKING GOD OF ORK TECHNOLOGY. (Unlike wimpy old Binary, Orks have commands for Yes, No AND "Maybe")
Agent_Tremolo wrote: In my personal scale for rating unlikely prophecies it scored two Millenium Bugs and one Mayan Apocalypse.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 12:57:53
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Dakka Veteran
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Thoughts on Razors ?
Putting together a list for a local 750pt tourney with limited FOC (1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 1+ Troops) and even at this points level with limited choices it looks as though they'll go bang quickly to Scatbikes and Crisis/Riptide.
Probably better to just run scouts I guess..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 13:02:22
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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What's the point of such limitations if scatbikes and riptides are allowed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 13:21:38
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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On the upside, I played and beat Necrons with my demi-company list again. Of course, a lot of it was my veritas vitae gave me the -1 to enemy reserves and his deathmarks and something tomb blades didn't arrive until turn 4. And Mephiston actually rolled null zone and used it against the Wraiths. Quickened Mephiston is murder against null zone Wraiths. And pretty much the entire Necron list. He had the other CC Necrons, but Mephy ate them, too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 15:29:06
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Martel732 wrote:On the upside, I played and beat Necrons with my demi-company list again. Of course, a lot of it was my veritas vitae gave me the -1 to enemy reserves and his deathmarks and something tomb blades didn't arrive until turn 4. And Mephiston actually rolled null zone and used it against the Wraiths. Quickened Mephiston is murder against null zone Wraiths. And pretty much the entire Necron list. He had the other CC Necrons, but Mephy ate them, too.
Can we actually lose to crons?
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5,000
:cficon: 1,500 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 15:30:13
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yeah. I haven't lost to Blood Angels once myself...
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 15:31:23
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Dakka Veteran
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koooaei wrote:What's the point of such limitations if scatbikes and riptides are allowed.
I know. Every time I see comp in a Tourney it boosts Eldar and Tau, and harms the weaker codexes.
They've also limited armour, which when you can take three Riptides in that single elite slot allowed seems very silly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 15:39:11
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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The ultra-violence is pretty effective vs Necrons, but many BA players are stuck in the past. I'm finding the pimped out biker captain is always worth it. Him and Mephy in the same list is pretty good vs Necrons. Also, warriors hate heavy flamers.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/11/07 15:45:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 19:04:31
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yeah I don't fear Meph. He's stuck at AP3. I can have frickin Nemesor hold him off.
That's the privilege of running Necrons though. Once you've gone with Skitarii you appreciate the durability. Automatically Appended Next Post: I've also been running Ghost Arks again on and off. Provides minor protection to Heavy Flamers (obviously not a lot) but more importantly gives an edge vs the majority of an Eldar and Tau list.
Fails awesomely against Gladius though because Grav.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/07 19:08:48
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 19:13:07
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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" I can have frickin Nemesor hold him off.
That's what captain power fist is for. Plus Mephy is in a squad with a power axe libby for just such an occasion. The standard Necron answer for CC is wraiths, though. Mephy does well vs Wraiths.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 19:24:22
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I use Praetorians for hitting and Wraiths for partial cleanup and bullying. It depends what list I'm bringing.
Also that's kinda a failure. Nemesor is going to hold that Captain up forever. 4++/4+++ does decently. The Axe Librarian definitely stands more of a chance. He still needs to get force off though, and I'm perfectly fine taking that chance of a 4++/5+++.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 19:48:53
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I use Praetorians for hitting and Wraiths for partial cleanup and bullying. It depends what list I'm bringing.
Also that's kinda a failure. Nemesor is going to hold that Captain up forever. 4++/4+++ does decently. The Axe Librarian definitely stands more of a chance. He still needs to get force off though, and I'm perfectly fine taking that chance of a 4++/5+++.
I don't know the stats on Nemesor. There's always a risk of being tarpitted vs Necrons, which is why I use speed to get the best matchups.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 20:29:04
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Nemesor is T5 2+/4++/4+++. He doesn't have anything special outside an okay shooting weapon but he gets picked for:
1. Being fucktons durable for 150 points
2. Being able to get special rules (he's always getting Counter Attack when I have him face Space Wolves)
3. He can choose a different Warlord trait each turn.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 20:43:11
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Nemesor is T5 2+/4++/4+++. He doesn't have anything special outside an okay shooting weapon but he gets picked for:
1. Being fucktons durable for 150 points
2. Being able to get special rules (he's always getting Counter Attack when I have him face Space Wolves)
3. He can choose a different Warlord trait each turn.
Sounds like a guy I just let have an objective, honestly. And just hope that objective doesn't become necessary. If this guy's on foot, Mephy just gets dropped far away.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/07 20:44:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 20:44:07
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Nemesor is T5 2+/4++/4+++. He doesn't have anything special outside an okay shooting weapon but he gets picked for:
1. Being fucktons durable for 150 points
2. Being able to get special rules (he's always getting Counter Attack when I have him face Space Wolves)
3. He can choose a different Warlord trait each turn.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you calculate multiple instances of instant death into reanimation protocols, right?
For instance, if Mephy has force and sanguine sword active he has both str10 (doubling out your toughness) and instant death, so Nemesor goes to a 2+/6+++. With Mephiston swinging between 7 and 9 attacks on the charge, it inly takes one failed 2+ to break that tarpit.
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5,000
:cficon: 1,500 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/07 20:56:10
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I guess it depends what kind of Necron lists you're facing. He's either in your face in a melee squad of some kind or he's doing army support junk with a small squad of some kind or he's doing things in a Pylonstar. Automatically Appended Next Post: th3maninblak wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Nemesor is T5 2+/4++/4+++. He doesn't have anything special outside an okay shooting weapon but he gets picked for:
1. Being fucktons durable for 150 points
2. Being able to get special rules (he's always getting Counter Attack when I have him face Space Wolves)
3. He can choose a different Warlord trait each turn.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you calculate multiple instances of instant death into reanimation protocols, right?
For instance, if Mephy has force and sanguine sword active he has both str10 (doubling out your toughness) and instant death, so Nemesor goes to a 2+/6+++. With Mephiston swinging between 7 and 9 attacks on the charge, it inly takes one failed 2+ to break that tarpit.
1. Necrons are only ever taken in a Decurion outside of Pylonstar builds. Ergo I calculated the ID with the 5++.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/07 20:59:19
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/08 05:58:40
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Nemesor is T5 2+/4++/4+++. He doesn't have anything special outside an okay shooting weapon but he gets picked for:
1. Being fucktons durable for 150 points
2. Being able to get special rules (he's always getting Counter Attack when I have him face Space Wolves)
3. He can choose a different Warlord trait each turn.
Psy will still help here. Either biomancy to make him t4 and id from a fist or -2 to inv with the new null zone. ID will also lower his RP to 5+++.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/08 08:32:43
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Dakka Veteran
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@Martel
At the start of the thread you talked about gearing Tacticals more for CC - Vet Sarge, Power Weapon, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino to take advantage of the Red Thirst. How did these work out for ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/08 08:33:26
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Bartali wrote:@Martel
At the start of the thread you talked about gearing Tacticals more for CC - Vet Sarge, Power Weapon, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino to take advantage of the Red Thirst. How did these work out for ?
They beat the ever-living crap out of necrons.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/08 08:34:28
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/08 14:43:16
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Bartali wrote:@Martel
At the start of the thread you talked about gearing Tacticals more for CC - Vet Sarge, Power Weapon, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino to take advantage of the Red Thirst. How did these work out for ?
They've been doing okay. The heavy flamer is actually still the most devastating part of the equation, but I did beat and sweep both necron destroyers and necron warriors with tac marines. This translated to more points because I was freed up to control and objective uncontested. I think they'll be even better vs meqs in terms of killing, but obviously they can't be swept. We'll see. I'm not missing the points so far. The vanilla dread has been lost in the shuffle three times now, and so it has been surprisingly useful. The #1 bullet catcher is actually the dev team with 2 X grav 2 X heavy bolter in a rhino. It seems people really hate grav cannons and are willing to waste the fire to pop the Rhino to get at them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/08 14:45:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 01:07:35
Subject: Re:More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
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It might be worth looking at Grav Devs in detail. BA can't use:
- Skyhammer
- Cataphractii
- Gladius rerolls
- Scouting Rhinos
So, a lot of the easier solutions to optimize Grav are off the table.
In terms of offensive buffs, BA is limited. But Prescience is still enough to help Grav Devs stick 9-10W on a Wraithknight in one shooting phase.
I also think there's a lot of potential in combat squadding. You can either go Drop Pod and Prescience to alpha strike WKs, or split up into Rhinos like Martel is doing to try and achieve target saturation. Defensively, there's a lot of 14pt chumps in Dev Squads so losing a few isn't disastrous. And the bigger the squad is, the more it benefits from the various enablers it can potentially gain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 01:51:57
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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At that point you're just better off with the Skyhammer when you combat squad and have two grav cannons in each squad and maybe a Combi-Flamer on one of them to scare chargers.
Yeah they got a tax of their own Assault Marines but Raven Guard makes them kinda cool.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 02:07:22
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I flat out the rhino to a good spot and sit there and shoot the whole game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 13:42:08
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Any word on if dred formation can double tap coming out of a pod?
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 13:53:00
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Why should it? It's a disembark Move. Also, any deepstrikers count as having moved anywayz.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 13:53:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 15:33:08
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I'm not doing that myself. I actually find it more devastating to fight twice anyway. A frag/flamer furioso frequently kills everything within template range anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 16:11:39
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Martel732 wrote:I'm not doing that myself. I actually find it more devastating to fight twice anyway. A frag/flamer furioso frequently kills everything within template range anyway.
Fighting twice is kinda hard when you are exploded. Always best to blow your load right away in this game. 2 melta is way better than 1 too. They are gonna need to clarify if you can do it or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote:Why should it? It's a disembark Move. Also, any deepstrikers count as having moved anywayz.
Two reasons. GW description of the formation says you can do it. Plus the wording is not specific enough to rule it out. In other situations with similar wording - "not being able to move in the movement phase" doesn't prevent the use of an ability that states you can use it instead of or if you haven't moved in the movement phase. My guess is GW will say you can't do it and make the formation totally nonviable. If they say you can though - the formation is pretty dang good.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 16:33:04
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 16:36:53
Subject: More Angel's Blade Discussion
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:At that point you're just better off with the Skyhammer when you combat squad and have two grav cannons in each squad and maybe a Combi-Flamer on one of them to scare chargers.
The problem with Skyhammer is you have no tactical flexibility. You're locked into podding them. And as stated in this thread there's a lot of ways to outmanuever or blunt a Grav drop.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/705297.page
What I'm thinking here is you essentially give up 1x Obsec Pod and 3x FA slots for the flexibility to alpha strike if needed. I'm definitely thinking of the Eldar matchup in these respects. Also, if you can keep a detachment free -- Inquisitor with Liber Heresius? It's fairly easy to Scout the Grav Devs (inside a DT Rhino) and then you can confer Split Fire.
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