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 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I personally find it's worth it to use the Skyshield Landing Pad as my Fortification slot if you're only going to run a single flyer (Storm Raven in this instance).

Lost Brotherhood Strike Force doesn't have a Fortification slot.

Most super-detachments don't.

Yes, I know this, you can still run a small CaD or Baal Strikeforce along with LBSF as well to get the Skyshield (This is what I think I'm going to try and do.).

It's a fun option in my opinion anyway.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly, the more I look back on the tournament, the more I think it was my fault and not a weakness of the list that I didn't do better. LBSF+LATF is very powerful, and I'm finding some glaring errors in my playing that day. Plus I only got 1 test game in with it, so there's that. I need to tweak and play with it more before I pass my final jugement.

Do you still think combining those two formations is really the best plan?

Martel732 wrote:
Do you still think combining those two formations is really the best plan?

Yes. It's one of the few "unfair" things we can do. Moving tanks 18in before the game starts is huge.

The other option I've theorized about is going full drop pod with the Archangels Demi Company and the Chapter Ancients. Putting 5 fragnoughts on the table turn 1 along with a bunch of sternguard is an alpha strike not many armies can take.

I'd like to see that list in action. Five fragiosos, five sternguard with three combi-melta each. Termie cpt with veritas vitae and all podded is 1850 on the dot. Although, those fifteen combi-melta could be divided between just with 3 stern sguads for more obvious deep strike role.

Xirax wrote:
I'd like to see that list in action. Five fragiosos, five sternguard with three combi-melta each. Termie cpt with veritas vitae and all podded is 1850 on the dot. Although, those fifteen combi-melta could be divided between just with 3 stern sguads for more obvious deep strike role.

You still need an auxillary choice. So drop 1 combi per squad and put in a multi melta attack bike. Done.

I know Fragi's are kind of our thing, but is anyone else just considering using Chapter Ancients to walk three regular Dreads on the board running all three with double twin linked autocannons? Could have 24 shots turn one? My math right? Not too expensive either.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
I know Fragi's are kind of our thing, but is anyone else just considering using Chapter Ancients to walk three regular Dreads on the board running all three with double twin linked autocannons? Could have 24 shots turn one? My math right? Not too expensive either.

I said in a different thread that I really want to make an 1850 list containing 3 sets of Chapter Ancients (5 riflemen dreads should be 600 points) and a techmarine (which makes it unbound). I just want to see a row of dreadnoughts throw out 120 twinlinked shots on turn 1. Probably not effective, but I would get to roll a bucketful of dice.

Regarding the LATF:

The Techmarine can be attached to any BA unit to confer Scout, right?

And any BA unit which starts in the Land Raider, benefits from the LR's 12" Scout move?

Martel732 wrote:
The first thing I've tried is to leverage in multiple librarians using Angel's Blade:

Tac squad, 6 guys
Heavy flamer
Vet sarge w/power sword
Rhino w/dozer blade

Tac squad, 6 guys
Heavy flamer
Vet sarge w/power sword
Rhino w/dozer blade

Tac squad, 5 guys
Combi-melta
Meltagun
Drop pod

Dreadnought
heavy flamer
assault cannon
Drop pod

Biker squad, 4 guys
2 X grav gun
Combi-grav

Captain
Bike
Power Fist
Auspex
Artificer armor
Vertias Vitae
Storm Shield

Command squad
3 X melta gun
3 X storm shield
Drop pod

Devastator squad
2 X grav cannon
Combi-plasma
2 X heavy bolter
Cherub thingie
Rhino w/dozer blade

Mephiston w/command squad
Chooses librarius

LV 2 Libby w/ command squad
Force Axe
Auspex
Chooses sanguinius

LV 2 libby w/bikers
Force sword
Bike
Chooses based off opponent

Land speeder
Typhoon launchers

I don't have the list at work, but I think that's it. At 2K, I add a priest to the bikers and some extra stuff. The weakest part to me is the regular dread, but even that is only because of lack of magna grapple. I'm not a huge fan of being forced to drop everything in my opponent's face turn 1/2 and I think this list reflects that. I can drop a flank or dangerous vehicles, but I've got enough mobile shooting to whittle down choppier armies.

Hey Martel, how have you found this list? Thinking of running something very similar myself, how do you rate Angels Blade vs Lost Brotherhood? Anything you've changed/would change?

Cheers.

It's hit or miss.

Struggled to write a nice 1850pt including the Lucifer Armoured Task Force, The Golden Host and The Death Company Strike Force (Mainly because of that damn DC dread and techmarine tax) but managed it with 2k points:

Golden Host
Dante

5 Sanguinary Guard
1 fist, 3 sword, 1 axe

5 Sanguinary Guard
1 fist, 2 sword, 2 axe

Death Company Strike Force
Death Company Chaplain
Melta bombs

5 Death Company
Jps, 1 fist

5 Death Company
Jps, 1 fist

5 Death Company
Jps, 1 fist

Death Company Dread
Meltagun
Pod

Lucifer Armoured Task Force
Techmarine
Redeemer
Multimelta

Predator
Lascannon side sponsoons

Predator
Lascannon side sponsoons

Baal Predator
Flamestorm cannon

2kpts

At 2.5k I'd include a Stormraven Squadron of 2, a dual multimelta landspeeder and heavy bolter side sponsoons on the baal.

Very model light but the fact that the SG will be assaulting when they hit will seriously up their durability.

Thinking of making a Flesh Tearers detachment with LATF and GH included with podded melta AMs in place of the DCSF and Flamestorms in place of the normal preds. Will theory build it soon.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about this one (assuming techmarine is 60pts - don't have the dex on hand bit seem to remember that number... remember all the rest):

Idea is to overload on tanks supported by GH.

Golden Host
Dante

5 SG
1 fist, 1 axe, 3 swords

5 SG
1 fist, 2 axe, 2 swords

5 SG
2 axe, 3 swords

Lucifer Armoured Task Force
Techmarine

Redeemer
Multimelta

3 Predators
All with lascannon side sponsoons, 1 with tl lascannon turret

Predator
Lascannon side sponsoons

3 Baal Predators
Flamestorms

2k pts

One thing I've always thought since the release of the BA dex is how ridiculously overcosted a Baal with AC is compared to a normal pred. The LATF highlights this even further. A baal gets 4 tl st6 ap4 rending shots. For the same points a destructor with lascannons gets 2 st7 ap4 and 2 st9 ap2 shots, and since preds get overcharged engines for free they are on exactly the same platform. Basically GW is pricing a tl AC at 40pts more than an autocannon. What a joke.

I could be wrong, as I've not messed with the LBSF, but I think you need a second Chaplain in there. You have to have a Command element, which can be a DC Chaplain, or Astorath, or Lemartes, and then, in addition to that, you have to have a second Death Company Chaplain Plus 3x units of DC, and a DC Dread.

Not to be a killjoy, as I'd love to see that list on the tabletop, but yea, I think you need one more Chaplain to make it work.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Golden Host can count as the command detachment for it though right as it counts as a command option?

Just got home for xmas and checked my BA dex and realised my memory wasn't as good as I remembered. Turns out I was pricing the SG from the old dex at 200 not 165pts for a bare unit, priced the techmarine at 10pts more than he was and also forgot that the Dread gets a melta for free. So actually have a ton more points left than I thought in those lists.
Also realised that podding ASM squads are now 20pts more expensive (because they were so OP before obvs :-|). How'd they sneak that nerf by without it being mentioned on the forums?

Oh it got mentioned but most just seemed to take it on the chin. It was the final nail in the coffin for them with me.

Well I suppose with all the buffs a single nerf (even one that negates many pre-Angels Blade lists) isn't too hard to bear :-/.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just made a 1850 GH centred list in the army list forum that I like the look of.

Trying out a list of Chapters Ancients in Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Drop Pods, so 3 of them, and Orbital intervention strike force in pods as well, totaling 6 drop pods allowing me to put my dreads in and fire out the top of the LP pods, my OISF will arrive turn two and be able to strike instantly, tying up units as my dreads move out of the pods. Haven't tried it yet but I think the rules work well together. Doing this with 3 LV2 Libby dreads and 2 assault/ 1 regular termie squad puts me at 1425pts leaving a bunch of room for some Death Company and or bikes/scouts. Any thoughts on this idea?



edit to correct points count and add list break down


CHAPTER ANCIENTS

LV2 libby dread x3 in LP drop pod 225PTS = 675 PTS

Orbital Intervention Force
2x Assult term squads with TH and SS = 450 PTS
1X normal term squad base = 200 pts
3 drop pods = 105 pts

TOTAL = 1430

Can I tank shock and kill units by blocking their path with LATF? I mean it's viable?

That's really hard with the new FAQ. Basically, no.

Martel732 wrote:
That's really hard with the new FAQ. Basically, no.

From hanging around here you seem to be the BA go to for knowledge, having not played since the 2nd edition I'm a touch lost, is my above list at least legal?

Yeah, it's just two formations. Perfectly legal.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, it's just two formations. Perfectly legal.

Thanks, I've been caught with my pants down using chapter ancients a few times, hence the move to the drop pods for them. Hoping I get a bit more use out of them. Three games in I have yet to use the "well timed blow" due to waiting to the perfect moment too long

Dreadnoughts basically have to be in drop pods. Well timed blow is best used in melee, but you have to survive that long with them.

Martel732 wrote:
Dreadnoughts basically have to be in drop pods. Well timed blow is best used in melee, but you have to survive that long with them.

I'm hoping to shoot with them on the turn they arrive, then tie up the "dangerous units" with the OISF coming out of deep strike turn two, allowing the dreads to get into combat. We shall see

Can anyone think of an effective way to get 'well timed blow' in with a fragioso so that the 4 st6 rending templates will actually hit a unit? The fact they can't move makes it really difficult to use... I suppose it may be possible to get a pod close enough to a tank that the dread can reach the tank with the 4 templates and maybe even be in melta range too at a push (if the doors are out wide either side of the tank).

Can a dread use a promethian relay pipe :-s? I forget if it's just infantry. If they can, podding a furioso with 2 heavy flamers next to a pipe will allow for 4 torrent templates, in a 12" threat radius.
Thinking about it im pretty sure it's just infantry though.

Regarding the q for tsnk shocks the part that forbid you to kill things I think it has Ben removed from the official FAQs, A: Pick up only those models actively displaced by the Tank Shock, and place them on the battle eld with all models within unit coherency, as close as possible to their starting location and with no models within 1" of an enemy unit. Any models that cannot be placed in
this way will be removed as casualties. If the whole unit is displaced, it will be moved together as above, and because of this it is impossible to remove an entire unit from play with a Tank Shock, unless the unit is unable to move; units that have Gone to Ground return to normal immediately, as it counts as being forced to move. So according to that if I block all the paths with my tanks and tank shock if you he enemy unit has nowhere to move it is destroyed... right?

That sounds like "No retreat" which can happen although I've never seen it actually happen. Not sure about post FAQ though.

 bloodoffi wrote:
Regarding the q for tsnk shocks the part that forbid you to kill things I think it has Ben removed from the official FAQs, A: Pick up only those models actively displaced by the Tank Shock, and place them on the battle eld with all models within unit coherency, as close as possible to their starting location and with no models within 1" of an enemy unit. Any models that cannot be placed in
this way will be removed as casualties. If the whole unit is displaced, it will be moved together as above, and because of this it is impossible to remove an entire unit from play with a Tank Shock, unless the unit is unable to move; units that have Gone to Ground return to normal immediately, as it counts as being forced to move. So according to that if I block all the paths with my tanks and tank shock if you he enemy unit has nowhere to move it is destroyed... right?

You can always chain back to the area the tank just left.

Tank shock is a tool to get models off of objectives, not a killing tool.

GodsCronik wrote:
Trying out a list of Chapters Ancients in Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Drop Pods, so 3 of them, and Orbital intervention strike force in pods as well, totaling 6 drop pods allowing me to put my dreads in and fire out the top of the LP pods, my OISF will arrive turn two and be able to strike instantly, tying up units as my dreads move out of the pods. Haven't tried it yet but I think the rules work well together. Doing this with 3 LV2 Libby dreads and 2 assault/ 1 regular termie squad puts me at 1425pts leaving a bunch of room for some Death Company and or bikes/scouts. Any thoughts on this idea?



edit to correct points count and add list break down


CHAPTER ANCIENTS

LV2 libby dread x3 in LP drop pod 225PTS = 675 PTS

Orbital Intervention Force
2x Assult term squads with TH and SS = 450 PTS
1X normal term squad base = 200 pts
3 drop pods = 105 pts

TOTAL = 1430

Martel wrote:Yeah, it's just two formations. Perfectly legal.

A bit late here. List is perfectly fine as an un-bound list, but is not legal for a bound army. Terminators in the OIF can't buy drop pods, so will need to take an additional third formation/detachment (CAD, BSF, FTSF etc) to take the pods from a Fast Attack slot.