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I'm confused about something in regards to the GSC background. Are all the members part of the same blood family? It makes it sound like all of them can trace their lineage back to the original Patriarch, and it talks about "generations" but then you have 1st/2nd/3rd/4th generation hybrids that make it sound like it's familial, but I didn't think humans, even not-quite abhumans could live for that long, since all of the models look to be at the latest middle-aged.

Do they recruit members of the cult and then brainwash or otherwise implant in them, or how does it work? Basically, is it more cult that brainwashes the masses or more like crazy inbred redneck family in the backwoods type of thing? There seems to be an awfully large number for them to all be the same family, maybe my interpretation of "generation" in this case is incorrect?

The cult begins when a host species member is forcibly implanted with Genestealer genetic material by a genestealer. As the cult develops, that genestealer is psychically enhanced as its cult grows, and is known as the Patriarch. That first victim becomes fanatically devoted to the original genestealer. When he/she procreates, the result is a 1st Gen hybrid. Both parents (including the one which was not originally infected with genetic material) become fanatically devoted to the "monstrous child." There is no mention that the genestealer genetic material is spread like an STD. So, don't go there? The life cycle continues through progressive generations. Hybrids and their human kin all devoted to the cult. There is a lot of fanatical devotion going on here. The fifth generation returns to purestrain genestealers, and the cycle of progressive generations of hybrids continues. This would mean the cult becomes a mixture of generations. I'm not familiar with a discussion of lifespans, but it would seem genestealers can live for a very long time by human standards. And, the more human the hybrid, the more like a human it is in terms of lifespan, strength, resistance to adverse environment, etc. Ghosar Cult in the Deathwatch Overkill board game (the one with a 40K formation, too) is maybe 1500 years old. Presumably, with the same original Patriarch genestealer. Any cult would/could include members who do not share a bloodline linkage to the Patriarch, but are members of the family. Hence, the word "Cult.".

Personally, the GSC was my first 40K army back in the RT days. So, I have always been fanatically devoted to the Cult. But, I really can't fill in the rather gaping holes in some of the biology and logical inconsistencies. I just chalk it up to the alien psychic effects. Why not, my other beloved 40K army is fungus based and exists to make war. Cause, that's what fungus does?

I have a question because I find GSC really confusing.

The 4th generation guys come out and pretty much look like regular people minus the eyes? But the 5th generation are purestraine so they come out of the womb and look like regular old genestealers?

usmcmidn wrote:
I have a question because I find GSC really confusing.

The 4th generation guys come out and pretty much look like regular people minus the eyes? But the 5th generation are purestraine so they come out of the womb and look like regular old genestealers?

Exactly, the sons of the 4th generations are new genestealers ready to infect other planets. The infected are not brainwashed, they are psychically linked to their patriarch and the sumission is genetical, they did not had freedom before, since the very first moment of the birth they are mind slaves of the patriarch.

So in short, yes it's closer to inbred rednecks in the backwoods (all part of one big family) than Manson-esque cult brainwashing (which would be more Chaos Cults schtick I guess)

I'm not against that. My idea is to do something like the Cult of Dagon in the Lovecraft story "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" and that actually works well, since they were all children/grandchildren/etc. of the Deep Ones, it wasn't like random people got converted over.

Regular people can be infected and join the cult.
While all hybrids will be related to the Patriarch, the Patriarch needs first to infect and hypnotise pure humans to create first gen hybrids at least.

Wayniac wrote:
So in short, yes it's closer to inbred rednecks in the backwoods (all part of one big family) than Manson-esque cult brainwashing (which would be more Chaos Cults schtick I guess)

I'm not against that. My idea is to do something like the Cult of Dagon in the Lovecraft story "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" and that actually works well, since they were all children/grandchildren/etc. of the Deep Ones, it wasn't like random people got converted over.

Honestly, it is closer to that than rednecks. Every single member of the cult is genetically linked to the patriarch except for Generation 0s- infected humans. Ironically, it's more entertaining when you realize the most likely high mortality rates during 1st and 2nd generation childbearing. It may not seem like it, but cults do go through large numbers the host species.

I would go with more like a family of vampires than rednecks. But, yes, this is not about brainwashing or desires or power seeking or delusions of grandeur like most cults. Humans don't join the cult with their free will.

So they can implant people and make them part of the cult and then their offspring are automatically link or something like that right.

That works very well I think given my idea for what I I'm thinking of doing

Wayniac wrote:
So they can implant people and make them part of the cult and then their offspring are automatically link or something like that right.

That works very well I think given my idea for what I I'm thinking of doing

Very much so. The process you would be looking for is the Genestealers kiss. It attacks the hosts reproductive processes, overriding the host genetic material with its own while simultaneously stimulating mating urges. All offspring from a Gen 0 host are psychically connected to their patriarch through broodmind telepathy, which you could consider a lesser form of the tyranid hive mind. The humans used for breeding as well as other hosts are telepathically dominated and subjugated to the point where they are nearly mindless. Their sole job is to eat, sleep, breed, and defend their offspring.

Excellent. I could have sworn I remember that from the old days but was not sure that works perfectly for my idea

A developed Genestealer Cult normally consists of the following:
1: Patriarch and the original Genestealers. They implant the first Humans. All members of the cult are linked to the Patriarch.
2. Implanted Humans. Their job is to generate new members for the cult and to get in a position of authority within their society, to aid in taking it over from the inside.
3. Hybrids of the various generations, the firstborn offspring of a Human implanted by a Genestealer or Hybrid. They will implant even more Humans to create more hybrids and brood brothers so that the cult grows rapidly. They will also form the bulk of the cult's military force. 4th generation Hybrids are also suitable for infiltration.
4. Brood Brothers, the later, normal Human children of the implanted Humans. Their main job is to infiltrate (and if possible, take over) Human society from the inside.
5. Newly created Genestealers. The result of implantation by a 4th generation Hybrid. Their job is to try and board spaceships to spread the Cult to new worlds.

Not all members of a Cult will be directly related to the Patriarch, as they may also be the offspring of one of the other Genestealers that arrived alongside the Patriarch (the Patriarch is the first Genestealer to infect a victim on a world). All members become linked to the will of the Patriarch however.

So, are second generation hybrids the result of two 1st generations mating?

No. First generation hybrids have ovipositors like Purestrains. Like Purestrains, they don't mate with each other. Their offspring via implanting another human is a 2nd Gen. And so on. The fluff does not mention or emphasize the cult growing by hybrids mating with each other. So, the "evolution" is always getting more and more human until the 5th Gen. "reset" back to a Purestrain. In the old days, the bulk of the cult would be non-hybrid offspring. This latest version has the bulk made up of hybrids. That's either because it represents more a more mature cult, or implies more than just the first borne are hybrids.

EDIT: Upon further review of the NEW codex, and intentionally trying to "forget" previous fluff, things change slightly...From JUST the new codex:

It is implied the genestealer ovipositor impregnated victims. There is no specific mention of the victim mating with another human, nor that other human becoming enthralled. That seems unlikely, or very specific that the genestealer only attacks a human capable of giving birth (I'm being discreet). Perhaps that is not a change, but a convenient simplification/ omission. First Gens have ovipositors. Second Gen models also have them. Also, 2G's are described as somewhat understanding of human society, and have limited speech. They probably don't breed by using dating services.

Later, the word "hypnotize" is used to describe humans who mate with infected hybrids. And, Broodmind is also a source of the Cult's control and unity of purpose.

I'm a G!
I'm a straight up Genestealer Hybrid.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
So they can implant people and make them part of the cult and then their offspring are automatically link or something like that right.

That works very well I think given my idea for what I I'm thinking of doing

Very much so. The process you would be looking for is the Genestealers kiss. It attacks the hosts reproductive processes, overriding the host genetic material with its own while simultaneously stimulating mating urges. All offspring from a Gen 0 host are psychically connected to their patriarch through broodmind telepathy, which you could consider a lesser form of the tyranid hive mind. The humans used for breeding as well as other hosts are telepathically dominated and subjugated to the point where they are nearly mindless. Their sole job is to eat, sleep, breed, and defend their offspring.

They are not mindless, a mindless slave would be near useless to the cult, which needs productive members capable of infiltrating the host society.
So mentally subjugated, but still individuals, and independent to some degree.

 Gobbla wrote:
The fluff does not mention or emphasize the cult growing by hybrids mating with each other.[/i][/color]

Yes it does. The new codex says they mate backwards up the chain and can spawn aberrants and hybrids more prone to metamorph.

As a rule, the cult is related. Older BL fiction has explained that hybrids and members from other cults don't mix well due to not sharing the inherent telepathic bond that the cult has between its members.

They'll take in strays but the strays will never truly belong and will never feel the closeness of their kindred. It's an uncomfortable position....

 DeffDred wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
The fluff does not mention or emphasize the cult growing by hybrids mating with each other.[/i][/color]

Yes it does. The new codex says they mate backwards up the chain and can spawn aberrants and hybrids more prone to metamorph.

Metamorphs have nothing to do with that, Metamorphs are spawned when a Hive Fleet is close.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
The fluff does not mention or emphasize the cult growing by hybrids mating with each other.[/i][/color]

Yes it does. The new codex says they mate backwards up the chain and can spawn aberrants and hybrids more prone to metamorph.

Eeuh! I haven't read that (and, maybe that's a good thing?) I don't discount it, but the first mention of the brood cycle does not mention it. Or, maybe the right word is emphasize it. The point I was making is the cult does not seem to be limited to hybrids mating with hybrids. So, there is a mechanism (hypnotism?) to bring in outsiders.

Ya gotta think no amount of beer will drink a three-armed Third Generation Hybrid pretty. Believe me, I've field-tested alcohol's limits.

Actually in one of the Cain books, Cain described a hybrid as "it would be pretty if it didn't had the third arm".

Although looking at GW models in general, it also possible that 40k humanity is simply ugly.