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My friend and I have been toying with the idea of starting X-Wing or Armada, and as much as I like the idea of commanding a fleet of star destroyers, I already play 40k, So I don't need another game that takes two hours to play. From what I hear, most X-Wing games last about 30 minutes once you have the rules down, which makes it much more approachable. We've already decided to pick up two starter boxes and trade the ships with each other So he'll have two x-wings and I'll have 4 tie fighters.

What would you suggest picking up to help fill out the list from there? I like the idea of a tie fighter swarm possibly led by one tie advanced. I have no clue where to start with rebels for him. I know at some point I would be looking at picking up an imperial raider just for the wow factor, but i don't plan to get too competitive about it.

Obvious answer:

Vader + advanced targeting computer + veteran instincts + engine upgrade

Howlrunner + crack shot

3x Black Squadron Pilot + crack shot

Vader is your endgame ship, the crack swarm annihilates anything you point it at. It's probably not the best tournament list, but it's at least reasonably good and it fits your idea of a TIE advanced with a TIE swarm.

I know x-wing tends to separate its upgrades and pilots between different packs. What other packs should I be looking to purchase to fill a list like that Peregrine. Obviously the Tie Advanced blister for the model, but is Howlrunner another pilot or ship? Basically, What stuff would I be looking at purchasing in addition to the starter box?

If you are happy to proxy cards then to run that list you would need a TIE fighter expansion for Howlrunner and a TIE advanced for Darth.

If you are not proxying then you would need the TIE fighter and a raider as well as;
A raider for the targeting computer,
Either Khiraxz, Imperial Aces, or hounds tooth for the crackshots (each comes with one copy).
Hounds Tooth or Millennium Falcon for the engine upgrade.
Flacon, Slave 1 or Shadow caster for Veteran Instincts.


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If you are not looking for really serious, tourney style stuff my buy list would be;

A TIE fighter expansion for the extra pilots and with the cores it gives you five.

A TIE Interceptor pack for Soontir Fel.
An Imperial Aces Pack for 2 more interceptors.
An Imperial Veterans for the updated TIE Defender.
A Shuttle, cause they are good (and useful for Palpatine).
After that what ever fits the playstyle you like most but probably a phantom, Force Awakens Core and TIE/fo.

Initial Investment wise, We plan to pick up both a Force Awakens Core and Standard Core, but I don't really want to drop that big of an investment right off the bat. If I'm going to pick up just one additional ship pack with my coreset. Would it be better to get another tie fighter for Howlrunner instead of a Tie Advanced?

That's a tricky one, if you are going to proxy cards they both have advantages. Another TIE fighter (so you will have 3 TIE/ln and 2 TIE/fo) flies as a pretty handy miniswarm, fly in formation and use Howlrunner for rerolls. But a TIE advanced gives you a miniswarm with the added bonus of an ace.
If you are not proxying then the TIE Advanced is pretty poor as it really needs the Title/sensors that come with the raider.

I think I would probably go for the Advanced first because it gives you more variety and it gets you used to how different ships fly. 5 TIE fighters might get pretty boring quickly.

Edit; I see you are in the States, check out Target. There was talk that they were selling off coresets really cheap.

We'll be learning the game together, so i probably won't be proxying anything yet just for the sake of simplicity. But i do like the idea of a tie advanced just to learn something different. My buddy will be running rebels and he's really interested in running the millineum falcon, but thats all he's told me. Would a list with the two x wings and the Millennium Falcon be realitivly comparable to 4 ties fighters and a tie advanced.

With moderate competency on either side I would bet on the Rebels winning a majority of the games. The Falcon having a 360 degree turret doesn't rely on much skill to fly.
Where as the Imperials having only two attack dice each are much more skill dependant and you will need to use blocking to deny your opponent actions. That is why the Title and advanced targeting computer for the Advanced is so good because as long as you have your enemy target locked you gain a critical hit to your attack, whilst howlrunner allows all your ships within range 1 of her to reroll an attack dice, mitigating against the RNG factor.

Without any upgrades Han Solo in a Falcon with the cheapest generic Xs is 93pts, against Vader, 2x cheapest generic TIE/ln and 2x cheapest generic TIE/fo is 83pts.



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Here are three of my favourite resources;

Squadron Builder;
http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/

List of expansions with all cards;
http://www.afewmaneuvers.com/topic/573-full-card-list-by-expansion/

Training simulator;
https://xws-bench.github.io/bench/#

Would i better off picking up something else instead a tie advanced? Something that can go toe to toe with the falcon? Would tie intercepters be a better choice?

Sorry, on rereading what I wrote its pretty ambiguous.

What I meant was your opponent is going to have a much easier learning curve than yourself. Rebs are generally a lot more forgiving than Imps. Imps you need to learn how to block effectively, formation fly (with swarm or mini-swarm) or arc dodge with 'ceptors, advanced and phantoms. Where as things like the Falcon are a lot more point and click.

If I were you I would stick with the advanced, Vader is good even with out the title, but much better with. But definitely get a 'captor after, the learning curve is even steeper but the pay off is worth it.

ingtaer wrote:
Vader is good even with out the title

No, Vader is terrible without the title. A 2-dice gun on a 30+ point ship is not acceptable.

For starting out, with out proxying cards? I totally disagree, its not for tournament play but learning the game. As the only ship with two actions on the field, plus barrel roll and target lock, PS9 I think Vader is pretty darn good.
Couldn't you think of anything constructive to add?

Thank you for clarifying this for me Ingtaer. I think I'm going to pick up the Tie Advanced then. I don't mind a couple losses when figuring out how to play the game. (I play CSM, So losing is something I'm very familiar with.)

ingtaer wrote:
Couldn't you think of anything constructive to add?

"Don't play Vader without the title card and ATC, even if you have to proxy them" is constructive advice, especially to someone who is talking about buying the Raider anyway. If you play Vader without the auto-include buff that made the TIE advanced no longer the worst ship in the game (and it wasn't by a small margin) you are going to lose games and get frustrated that your 30+ point ship is complete trash and accomplishes nothing. If you get the title and ATC you will enjoy playing with Vader. Do the thing that is fun, not the thing that sucks.

 Peregrine wrote:

ingtaer wrote:
Couldn't you think of anything constructive to add?

"Don't play Vader without the title card and ATC, even if you have to proxy them" is constructive advice, especially to someone who is talking about buying the Raider anyway. If you play Vader without the auto-include buff that made the TIE advanced no longer the worst ship in the game (and it wasn't by a small margin) you are going to lose games and get frustrated that your 30+ point ship is complete trash and accomplishes nothing. If you get the title and ATC you will enjoy playing with Vader. Do the thing that is fun, not the thing that sucks.

At some point, I do plan to pick up the raider. But not immediately. Especially since the raider itself wouldn't get any playtime itself. My funds are limited and my friend's are even more so, So I'm assuming he wouldn't be able to bring anything to deal with it, which makes the game not fun for anyone.

Do you suggest a different ship than the Tie Advanced with Vader since I will not be getting the Raider for a while, Peregrine?

Peregrine;
Well mate if you had read the bit where OP states he didn't want to proxy nor drop loads of dollars that negates your helpful advice doesn't it? If you had some insight of other, viable, options that would have been helpful.
So whats the alternative? 'ceptor which needs PTL, AT, stealth and Palp?
How about a crackswarm that you have to buy 5 ships you are not going to use? Which of these options fits in with not wanting to spend a lot of money?



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Thinking about it probably the only Imp ship that works straight out of the box is the Phantom, and that is hardly user friendly for a novice.

What makes the phantom non beginner friendly?

ingtaer wrote:
OP states he didn't want to proxy

Too bad. If you're not playing in a tournament you proxy cards, period. Refusing to do so makes no sense and only damages your enjoyment of the game.

The cloaking mechanic, you cant attack when cloaked and in order to de-cloak you make a 2 speed forward or barrel roll before your movement. Can take a while to work out and if you mess it up you are four hit point ship with two green dice, which generally means you die.
They are also pretty expensive and have a lot to think about.

 Mr_Piddlez wrote:
What makes the phantom non beginner friendly?

It's an expensive glass cannon that depends entirely on picking the right maneuver (including de-cloak direction), shooting first to re-cloak before anything can shoot back, and making a lot of risk vs. reward choices correctly. The margin for error on those things is very small, you can very quickly go from "things are fine, this ship is awesome" to "Whisper died, I lose the game" with even a single mistake. You will quite likely lose every single game you play against an experienced player because the phantom is so brutally unforgiving of mistakes.

It's also not a very friendly ship for playing against other newbies because once you do figure out how to use it correctly you can have some very one-sided games where the phantom kills everything while all your opponent can do is watch helplessly. Or you can botch a maneuver choice, instantly lose the game, and have neither of you learn much from the experience.

So perry; your advice is to not do what the OP wants, so less advice more mandate, that's a bizarre way of helping some one out. Should he also spend more money than he wants to get Palp aces so he can crush his newb friend?

Thank you Ingtaer, that helps to clarify it for me.

Peregrine, The reason I don't want to proxy any cards to start is because I won't have a basis for what they mean. It would be like trying to play an army without its codex. It's great to say something is proxied when you know the rules for it, Until I know those rules though, I don't want to add more confusion into the learning process. When I get to a point that I'm playing seriously, I will have naturally picked up the cards I need from expanding my collection.

All good mate, I hope you enjoy. That squadron builder I listed earlier includes the rules for all the cards, can print with rules and also tells you where all the cards come from.

With all the cards from all the different packs, Is it common for people to play all factions?

Yep many do because there is much cross over. I tend to play Scum mostly but actually own more imps (three times as many). There are a few ships that are cross-faction as well.

For me, I love the Phantom, and even do quite well with a lower PS Echo. I still lose more than I win, but even the veteran players have a hard time against me with it. Probably because they are expecting VI Whisper. Echo's curved decloak is a huge bonus, and I tend to pair her with either a lot of ties, or a couple higher PS ships, with arc dodging capabilities. But then, that is my preferred playstyle, and win or lose, a ton of fun for me.

 Mr_Piddlez wrote:
Peregrine, The reason I don't want to proxy any cards to start is because I won't have a basis for what they mean. It would be like trying to play an army without its codex.

If you use a Squadron Builder app, you'll have a quick reference for all the card text in the game.

I'm on Peregrine's side here; when you first get into X-Wing, you should proxy cards. The "business" of X-Wing is to scatter all the useful upgrade cards into a dozen different ship expansion packs, and so it's impractical to limit yourself to the upgrade cards you have physical access to. You will have less fun if you do that.

You will have much more fun with this game if you prioritizing buying ships that you like. You can worry about the upgrade cards when you start attending tournaments (which I highly recommend that you do eventually, they're a lot of fun).

I'll agree on proxying too. It's the best way to get a flavour for all the game has to offer, including the more exotic or competitive choices, without breaking the bank.

Although the original Tie Fighter Expansion is a great buy, don't feel bad if you feel the pull of the Tie f/o expansion. It contains Omega Leader and two of his most powerful upgrades, the Comm Relay and Juke. All you need after that is to proxy a Stealth Device or buy a Slave 1 (another iconic ship) and you have yourself a nice pocket ace.

Use any squad builder and they'll have an option to print the card text when making a list. That means you can plan your purchases for the eventual tourney you'll attend ahead of time. And you will attend one. Eventually.

It's also worth mentioning that half the cards have been revised by errata since printing, so even if you play with the real cards, they won't necessarily have the "real" rules, so you'll be proxying either way.

Well, have you thought about buying the cards you need online? I am all for playing with proxies to test new ideas out. Even though we proxy in our gaming group for casual play, we will buy the cards we need from ships we have no use for (or don't want) online, and the ships we want plus accessories in the store.