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Reading Anacharis stats I wonder wether or not anyone has pitted that beast against any of the primarchs/sigismund and co.

Isn't he able to do a horrid amount of damage?

Who?

 commander dante wrote:
Who?

The dude who founded Xana II and a dark mechanicus magos. Appers in retribution with obscene stats (T6/W5 and 2+/3++ right out of my head)

Scoria is bassicly a primarch With the crazy stuff he can do....

Lord Kragan wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Who?

The dude who founded Xana II and a dark mechanicus magos. Appers in retribution with obscene stats (T6/W5 and 2+/3++ right out of my head)

Oh him
Isnt he the one with the IWND-Denying Sword?

I'm going to start doing mathammer to them:

Considering the guy's ld 10, he won't fail his fear checks in this scenarios (barring with Kurze).

Overview of Scoria: the founder of the first hell-forge boasts an insane statline, with "fives" all across the board "barring" wounds (4) and attacks (3). But this is solved by his machinator array and his xanathite abeyant: all of a sudden his statline Bumps and he gets T6 W5 and A4+2 ( those two attacks are +1 strength, Ap2 and shred with armorbane) attacks. He also has eternal warrior, feel no pain and it will not die. So right of the bat he's tougher to kill than quite a few primarchs (like angron, corax, guilliman-3++ and 5++ fnp beat that extra wound-).

He also boasts an obscene amount of ranged weapons: he has 2 archaeotech pistols, a flamer, a melta gun and a photon thruster and he can fire three of them in a turn, so he can blend MEQs at range.

But most import is his special weapon: the vodian staff just needs to hit and does d3 auto-wounds that allow no armor saves, fnp rolls nor IWND rolls. That hurt is there to stay and he doesn't give a feth about how tough the primarch is.

First match-up
Mortarion (425pts) versus Scoria on the Xanathite Abeyant (315pts).

They attack at the same time.

Mortarion hits 3.333 times. Wounds 2.2222 times. Which is downed to 0.66666 (3++ invuln save) wounds and to 0.44444 wounds after IWND rolls.
Scoria hits 2 times. Wounds 2d3 times (so 4 times on average). that's translated to 2 wounds. His machinator array hits once, wounds 0.55 times and causes. 0.25 wounds, downed to 0.12 after the re-rollable IWND.

After 4 rounds of combat the mighty reaper is downed by one of the founding fathers of the dark mechanicum, who will have lost 1.32 wounds out of 5.

He beat a fething primarch and he wasn't amongst the weakest.

Second match-up Guilliman vs Scoria on the Xanathite Abeyant.

Guilliman goes first with the gladius, because wounds 89% of the time and allows him to attack first ,whereas his fist doesn't do much in this match-up.

Guilliman hits 3.333 times with the gladius and wound roughly 3 times. After saves and FNP+ Scoria suffers 0.66 wounds, brought down to 0.44 with IWND.
Scoria hits 2 times, wound 2d3 times so averages 4 wounds. Guilliman fails 2 wounds, re-rolling once and thus saving 2.5 all in all. He suffers 1.5 wounds per phase, or one if you want to be nitpicky.
The machinator hits once, wounds 0.75 times, downed to 0.375 after saves and 0.25 after IWND.

After around 4 to 6 (though most likely it will be 5) rounds, Guilliman lays dead at the hands of Scoria, who has suffered 1.76 to 2.64 wounds.

More to come boys, but in so far this guy seems OP to me.

Urgent news: THE fight of the Heresy. HORUS VERSUS SCORIA.

On the left side we have the invict primarch Horus, beater of ALL his brothers. On the right side we have the title aspirant, ANACHARIS SCORIA!! Can the aspirant claim the Warmaster's title as top murder-rape in the 30th millenium? Let's see...
Round 1.
Horus goes first with his infamous talon: he hist 4 times and wounds 3.56 times. Scoria tanks most of the wounds and gets 0,79 wounds. So let's say he's lucky this time and he doesn't suffer the effects of the blow on the first round (but will on the second).. He drives those wounds down to 0.53 wounds after IWND.

Anacharis hits twice, deals 4 wounds. Horus suffers 1.33333 wounds this round. His machinator array hits once, wounds 0.75 times and translates to 0.25 wounds and 0.176 wounds after IWND.
Round 2. This time the talon has made effect as anacharis has accumulated 1.06 wounds after saves and IWND.

Anacharis hits twice, deals 4 wounds. Horus suffers 1.33333 wounds this round. His machinator array hits once, wounds 0.75 times and translates to 0.25 wounds and 0.176 wounds after IWND.
At this point one has to admire the Magos. He's inflicted 3 wounds on the Warmaster and taken barely one in return, all while costing almost 200 points less than horus.

Round 3. Horus does d3 attacks more, averaging 2. hits 5.333333 times. wounds 4.75 times. Scoria suffers 1.06 wounds, reduced to 0.7 after IWND.
Scoria hits on 5s, so 1.333 (assume 1 hit but a good roll on wounds, 3). That translates into one wound to the warmaster. The machinator array hits 0.666666 times. 0.35 wounds times... like, 0,05 wounds after IWND? At this point it's neglible.


Round 4. Horus does d3 attacks more, averaging 2. hits 5.333333 times. wounds 4.75 times. Scoria suffers 1.06 wounds, reduced to 0.7 after IWND.
Scoria hits on 5s, so 1.333 (assume 1 hit but a good roll on wounds, 3). That translates into one wound to the warmaster. The machinator array hits 0.666666 times. 0.35 wounds times... like, 0,05 wounds after IWND? At this point it's neglible.

Round 5. Horus does d3 attacks more, averaging 2. hits 5.333333 times. wounds 4.75 times. Scoria suffers 1.06 wounds, reduced to 0.7 after IWND.
Scoria hits on 5s, so 1.333 (assume 1 hit but a good roll on wounds, 3). That translates into one wound to the warmaster. The machinator array hits 0.666666 times. 0.35 wounds times... like, 0,05 wounds after IWND? At this point it's neglible....

There go 6 wounds.

Ladies and Gentlemen...

HORUS WAS BEATEN!!!!

I've never heard of this guy. Who is he, and what book is he in?

All Primarchs have EW, Fear, Admantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion, Precision Strikes, and Precision Shots

A note about the Horus fight: Why would Horus ever attack with his Talon in close combat when he has a S10 AP 2 Concussive mace? The Talon is S6, AP2 with shred, and if you wound with it, the model is -1 WS and -1S. Against another Primarch level model, that means nothing. I'm trying to understand how Horus, with a 2+/3++, is taking all these wounds and the other guy isn't? And then your guy is getting wounds back every round from IWND but none of the Primarchs are???

I highly suspect your "Mathhammer".

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've never heard of this guy. Who is he, and what book is he in?

Lord Kragan wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Who?

The dude who founded Xana II and a dark mechanicus magos. Appers in retribution with obscene stats (T6/W5 and 2+/3++ right out of my head)

The Vodian Sceptre denies FNP and IWND, and each hit automatically does d3 wounds. That's why he is a Primarch-killer. if you Google his full name "Anacharis Scoria", you'll find the full rules pretty easily in several other discussions of what he can do.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've never heard of this guy. Who is he, and what book is he in?

All Primarchs have EW, Fear, Admantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion, Precision Strikes, and Precision Shots

A note about the Horus fight: Why would Horus ever attack with his Talon in close combat when he has a S10 AP 2 Concussive mace? The Talon is S6, AP2 with shred, and if you wound with it, the model is -1 WS and -1S. Against another Primarch level model, that means nothing. I'm trying to understand how Horus, with a 2+/3++, is taking all these wounds and the other guy isn't? And then your guy is getting wounds back every round from IWND but none of the Primarchs are???

I highly suspect your "Mathhammer".

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Mechanicum:_Taghmata_(30k)#Special_Characters

Anacharis Scoria he is in HH Book 6, the Primarchs aren't getting their IWND rolls because his weapon doesnt allow them.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've never heard of this guy. Who is he, and what book is he in?

Lord Kragan wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Who?

The dude who founded Xana II and a dark mechanicus magos. Appers in retribution with obscene stats (T6/W5 and 2+/3++ right out of my head)

The Vodian Sceptre denies FNP and IWND, and each hit automatically does d3 wounds. That's why he is a Primarch-killer. if you Google his full name "Anacharis Scoria", you'll find the full rules pretty easily in several other discussions of what he can do.

So he is not actually in any of the Horus Heresy rulebooks?

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've never heard of this guy. Who is he, and what book is he in?

All Primarchs have EW, Fear, Admantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion, Precision Strikes, and Precision Shots

A note about the Horus fight: Why would Horus ever attack with his Talon in close combat when he has a S10 AP 2 Concussive mace? The Talon is S6, AP2 with shred, and if you wound with it, the model is -1 WS and -1S. Against another Primarch level model, that means nothing. I'm trying to understand how Horus, with a 2+/3++, is taking all these wounds and the other guy isn't? And then your guy is getting wounds back every round from IWND but none of the Primarchs are???

I highly suspect your "Mathhammer".

Just a slight correction. Horus is S7 and the claw has shred. Scoria hits at I5 and him at I6 but the mace is unwieldy. Given the choice between wounding 89,1% of the time versus 83% all while going last (for the first turn and possibly the second) and neither hampering the enemy's performance (at Ws3 he only hits on 5s) nor improving his (at Ws4 Horus gets more attacks)... I don't know I think it's a bit obvious. Also please read the post before making questions that are clearly answered in the first commentary.

And he does appear in HH rulebooks, HH6 retribution to be precise.

And please, next time READ the whole comment, specially the BEGINNING where the rules are listed.

 Tamwulf wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've never heard of this guy. Who is he, and what book is he in?

Lord Kragan wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Who?

The dude who founded Xana II and a dark mechanicus magos. Appers in retribution with obscene stats (T6/W5 and 2+/3++ right out of my head)

The Vodian Sceptre denies FNP and IWND, and each hit automatically does d3 wounds. That's why he is a Primarch-killer. if you Google his full name "Anacharis Scoria", you'll find the full rules pretty easily in several other discussions of what he can do.

So he is not actually in any of the Horus Heresy rulebooks?

Horus Heresy Book 6: Retribution

Now, that being said, I'm showing a bit of a bias in the sense that this only accounts for that case where he doesn't get wounded on turn 1. IF he does get wounded on turn one, I think Horus could kill him but he'd have a wound left. If we add in a chaplain, Scoria will kill Horus regardless of being wounded or not on 1st turn. The funny thing is that even then he'd cost more than a hundred points less than Horus.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Round 3. Horus does d3 attacks more, averaging 2. hits 5.333333 times. wounds 4.75 times. Scoria suffers 1.06 wounds, reduced to 0.7 after IWND.
Scoria hits on 5s, so 1.333 (assume 1 hit but a good roll on wounds, 3). That translates into one wound to the warmaster. The machinator array hits 0.666666 times. 0.35 wounds times... like, 0,05 wounds after IWND? At this point it's neglible.

Round 4. Horus does d3 attacks more, averaging 2. hits 5.333333 times. wounds 4.75 times. Scoria suffers 1.06 wounds, reduced to 0.7 after IWND.
Scoria hits on 5s, so 1.333 (assume 1 hit but a good roll on wounds, 3). That translates into one wound to the warmaster. The machinator array hits 0.666666 times. 0.35 wounds times... like, 0,05 wounds after IWND? At this point it's neglible.

Round 5. Horus does d3 attacks more, averaging 2. hits 5.333333 times. wounds 4.75 times. Scoria suffers 1.06 wounds, reduced to 0.7 after IWND.
Scoria hits on 5s, so 1.333 (assume 1 hit but a good roll on wounds, 3). That translates into one wound to the warmaster. The machinator array hits 0.666666 times. 0.35 wounds times... like, 0,05 wounds after IWND? At this point it's neglible....

Much as I love the commentary, I think you only do IWND at the end of your own turn? So that's every other round of combat. Looks like you're accounting for it in every round...

Even then the damage is only upped to 4,3 wounds, not filling the bill to kill that bastard. Nevertheless it stands as a testament to the guy's skill as he will chip 5 wounds off Horus while costing a lot less than him, if he doesn't kill him.

Eh, bring Corbax and eat him. Problem solved.

Chapter Master Zoidberg wrote:
Eh, bring Corbax and eat him. Problem solved.

Actually...

Corbax vs Scoria:

Round 1
Corbax hits 2.6666 times. He wounds 2.371 times, 1,3 times being ID: Scoria takes 0,4355 wounds from the ID attacks (he's eternal warrior) and 0.238 from the regular ones, so a total of 0.6735 wounds.
IWND will reduced it to 0.4489 wounds.
Scoria hits 2 times, makes 4 wounds and they are reduced to 2.666666 wounds after saves. His machinator array hits once, wounds 0,3 times and casues 0,2 wounds after saves,

By the third round of combat Scoria will have won After losing 1.5 wounds (roughly).


I'm not factoring spells because I don't know which ones would suit better this fight, and cannot remember which disciplines cor'bax has access to. Nevertheless it's a pretty one-sided business by the results, so it needs to be a BIG boost.

Damn, just checked his rules, Hoping he didnt have EW
Now Alpharius is gonna get wrecked...
(Alpharius is the #1 bane of Mechanicum armies, as he has a Plasma Blaster AND a S6 AP1 ID, Armourbane Spear, plus he can use his units and legion rules to get up the table quicker)

 commander dante wrote:
Damn, just checked his rules, Hoping he didnt have EW
Now Alpharius is gonna get wrecked...
(Alpharius is the #1 bane of Mechanicum armies, as he has a Plasma Blaster AND a S6 AP1 ID, Armourbane Spear, plus he can use his units and legion rules to get up the table quicker)

Did mathhammer alpharius vs scoria, it's pretty much the same as Mortarion's fight. He has worse to wound rolls but it's more or less evened out by prefered enemy.

I've always been aware that this guy is pure dirt, but not this level of dirt - he may need a nerf.

I checked him against all the Primarchs last time someone asked this question, the only Primarch who didn't reliably win the fight quickly was Angron. I will double-check my math and the OP's math later today, not sure where the discrepancy is coming from.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I checked him against all the Primarchs last time someone asked this question, the only Primarch who didn't reliably win the fight quickly was Angron. I will double-check my math and the OP's math later today, not sure where the discrepancy is coming from.

Dunno, bring it and lets see where any of us has made a mistake. Did you factor that he autowounds? And machinator array and the abeyant? Perhaps he can't come on top without those.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I checked him against all the Primarchs last time someone asked this question, the only Primarch who didn't reliably win the fight quickly was Angron. I will double-check my math and the OP's math later today, not sure where the discrepancy is coming from.

Dunno, bring it and lets see where any of us has made a mistake. Did you factor that he autowounds? And machinator array and the abeyant? Perhaps he can't come on top without those.

Well the Abeyant is what gives him 5 Wounds and the 4th base attack, so with out that he'd likely lose more often.

Just rechecked Horus, I think we may both have math errors. You ran your calculations rounding Scoria to one hit and giving him a three-wound roll to compensate, that's slightly over the actual average (3 wounds inflicted a round versus 2.667 wounds inflicted a round). I think I forgot to factor in the extra Attack from the Abeyant last time, this time I'm getting Horus and Scoria in a dead heat that ends in round seven with one of them still standing at one wound.

There are a few unanswered questions about how the Voidian Sceptre interacts with some of the Primarch's rules; it may only wound Dorn on 3s, it may only wound Mortarion on 6s. Absent odd cases like that most Primarchs either lose or tie, only one I've got who wins reliably is Vulkan (automatic ID on the hammer may not ID Scoria but it does still negate FNP, that plus rerollable IWND has Vulkan standing with 1-2 wounds remaining in round five).

Just for fun I ran Scoria against Aetaos'rau'keres too (since he's sufficiently around in 30k to have an entry in the allies table). The fight usually stalemates until the Daemon rolls a 6 on the Stomp table (around three rounds of combat in, on average), but there's an 8% chance of not getting that 6 for long enough that it'll come down to one of the two winning on one wound in round eight.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Just rechecked Horus, I think we may both have math errors. You ran your calculations rounding Scoria to one hit and giving him a three-wound roll to compensate, that's slightly over the actual average (3 wounds inflicted a round versus 2.667 wounds inflicted a round). I think I forgot to factor in the extra Attack from the Abeyant last time, this time I'm getting Horus and Scoria in a dead heat that ends in round seven with one of them still standing at one wound.

There are a few unanswered questions about how the Voidian Sceptre interacts with some of the Primarch's rules; it may only wound Dorn on 3s, it may only wound Mortarion on 6s. Absent odd cases like that most Primarchs either lose or tie, only one I've got who wins reliably is Vulkan (automatic ID on the hammer may not ID Scoria but it does still negate FNP, that plus rerollable IWND has Vulkan standing with 1-2 wounds remaining in round five).

Just for fun I ran Scoria against Aetaos'rau'keres too (since he's sufficiently around in 30k to have an entry in the allies table). The fight usually stalemates until the Daemon rolls a 6 on the Stomp table (around three rounds of combat in, on average), but there's an 8% chance of not getting that 6 for long enough that it'll come down to one of the two winning on one wound in round eight.

You're doing the Vulkan math wrong: the sceptre doesn't allow for IWND. Also your assumptions areflawed: neither Dorn's and Mortarion's skills get to activate because Scoria isn't wounding on a flat dice but causes automatically d3 wounds. There's no to wound rolls involved so those skills don't trigger.

Lord Kragan wrote:
...You're doing the Vulkan math wrong: the sceptre doesn't allow for IWND. Also your assumptions areflawed: neither Dorn's and Mortarion's skills get to activate because Scoria isn't wounding on a flat dice but causes automatically d3 wounds. There's no to wound rolls involved so those skills don't trigger.

Thanks for pointing out the IWND thing. It doesn't affect the outcome in this case, but it makes the fight closer than it'd otherwise be.

The wording of the Voidian Sceptre and of Dorn/Mortarion's rules are both vague/ambiguous, absent a ruling from Forge World or any kind of precedent that'd give me a clue how to treat auto-wounding attacks I can't say one way or the other.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
...You're doing the Vulkan math wrong: the sceptre doesn't allow for IWND. Also your assumptions areflawed: neither Dorn's and Mortarion's skills get to activate because Scoria isn't wounding on a flat dice but causes automatically d3 wounds. There's no to wound rolls involved so those skills don't trigger.

Thanks for pointing out the IWND thing. It doesn't affect the outcome in this case, but it makes the fight closer than it'd otherwise be.

The wording of the Voidian Sceptre and of Dorn/Mortarion's rules are both vague/ambiguous, absent a ruling from Forge World or any kind of precedent that'd give me a clue how to treat auto-wounding attacks I can't say one way or the other.

I'm treating it like the destroyer table. The rulings for dorn state his skill doesn't affect "rolling on the destroyer table" so his rule only works when "rolling to wound" so getting to wound automatically doesn't activate his skill.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
...You're doing the Vulkan math wrong: the sceptre doesn't allow for IWND. Also your assumptions areflawed: neither Dorn's and Mortarion's skills get to activate because Scoria isn't wounding on a flat dice but causes automatically d3 wounds. There's no to wound rolls involved so those skills don't trigger.

Thanks for pointing out the IWND thing. It doesn't affect the outcome in this case, but it makes the fight closer than it'd otherwise be.

The wording of the Voidian Sceptre and of Dorn/Mortarion's rules are both vague/ambiguous, absent a ruling from Forge World or any kind of precedent that'd give me a clue how to treat auto-wounding attacks I can't say one way or the other.

I'm treating it like the destroyer table. The rulings for dorn state his skill doesn't affect "rolling on the destroyer table" so his rule only works when "rolling to wound" so getting to wound automatically doesn't activate his skill.

Well you wouldn't be rolling on the Destroyer Table either, so that wouldn't be correct. If it specifically says "The Destroyer Table" it means only the Destroyer Table until ruled otherwise.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
...You're doing the Vulkan math wrong: the sceptre doesn't allow for IWND. Also your assumptions areflawed: neither Dorn's and Mortarion's skills get to activate because Scoria isn't wounding on a flat dice but causes automatically d3 wounds. There's no to wound rolls involved so those skills don't trigger.

Thanks for pointing out the IWND thing. It doesn't affect the outcome in this case, but it makes the fight closer than it'd otherwise be.

The wording of the Voidian Sceptre and of Dorn/Mortarion's rules are both vague/ambiguous, absent a ruling from Forge World or any kind of precedent that'd give me a clue how to treat auto-wounding attacks I can't say one way or the other.

I'm treating it like the destroyer table. The rulings for dorn state his skill doesn't affect "rolling on the destroyer table" so his rule only works when "rolling to wound" so getting to wound automatically doesn't activate his skill.

Well you wouldn't be rolling on the Destroyer Table either, so that wouldn't be correct. If it specifically says "The Destroyer Table" it means only the Destroyer Table until ruled otherwise.

But does set a precedent: the special rule only works when rolling to wound. So if I don't need to make said roll, I cannot be hampered by it.

This thread disturbs me a bit. No Mechanicum character should come close to being on par with a Primarch in close combat... Especially at such a cheaper price point wise.