Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wagz86 wrote:
I don't have my codex in front of me at the moment but I'll definitely take your word for it

So does that mean even the secondary option of taking GK termies with belial added still doesn't benefit?

It depends on which standards you are using. But much like the Bounding Lope ruling of "the unit benefits, but not the IC", I'm not sure how that properly translates out.

So, either you treat it as Fleet (all models have the special rule to work) or you treat it as Stubborn (at least one model has the special rule). It would just be easier if all these unique special rules provided this level of distinction instead of just saying "the unit does this", but that would require GW to bother mapping its rule connections.

Wagz86 wrote:
I don't have my codex in front of me at the moment but I'll definitely take your word for it

So does that mean even the secondary option of taking GK termies with belial added still doesn't benefit?

I mean if you took Belial, and put him in a squad of GK, they would get his none scatter teleport, but would not be able to get VS, if thats waht you are asking.

That doesn't make much sense as they are both worded very similarly. It would would either be both work or neither.


Unless you were referring to the initial DS teleport and not the GOI teleport.

Wagz86 wrote:
That doesn't make much sense as they are both worded very similarly. It would would either be both work or neither.


Unless you were referring to the initial DS teleport and not the GOI teleport.

I mean if you took Belial and put him with GK Terminators, they would not scatter on coming in, but he does not convey Vengeful strikes to the GK, unless the GK also have vengeful strike. Because in the DA codex, Vengeful strikes only applies to models with the Deathwing Special rule.

Oh yeah that's obvious. My question is more would belials tactical precision rule apply even during GOI. So far looks like no based on everyone's input here and that's fine. Scrap that idea lol

Wagz86 wrote:
Oh yeah that's obvious. My question is more would belials tactical precision rule apply even during GOI. So far looks like no based on everyone's input here and that's fine. Scrap that idea lol

Does Belial's Tactical Precision apply to Deep Strike Reserves or just arriving from Deep Strike?

Remember the difference between the two.

 Charistoph wrote:

Wagz86 wrote:
Oh yeah that's obvious. My question is more would belials tactical precision rule apply even during GOI. So far looks like no based on everyone's input here and that's fine. Scrap that idea lol

Does Belial's Tactical Precision apply to Deep Strike Reserves or just arriving from Deep Strike?

Remember the difference between the two.

Iirc just him and his unit arrive automatically and do not scatter. Don't have the dex on me

It's almost literally the same wording as VS. so just when they deep strike. It doesn't say reserve.

That's why I was asking. Because it seems to me people have in the past allowed TP to interact with GOI and if so I can't see why VS wouldn't then too interact. I'm sort of at this point based on everyone's input thinking neither.

Wagz86 wrote:
It's almost literally the same wording as VS. so just when they deep strike. It doesn't say reserve.

That's why I was asking. Because it seems to me people have in the past allowed TP to interact with GOI and if so I can't see why VS wouldn't then too interact. I'm sort of at this point based on everyone's input thinking neither.

Ok so Vengeful strikes will NOT transfer to any other unit unless it has the death wing special rule on the MODEL not the unit. (Unless GK have vengeful strike on their model)

Tactical Precision WILL transfer to the unit, and WILL work with GOI, basically you dont scatter when you land.

But unless the model had deathwing, (Or a GK version of VS) you will not get twin linked weapons on any model other then Belial and other DW models.

No they won't I agree. But what I'm saying is do the DW get VS every single time they gate? Some have said no but now you are saying that TP from belial means they don't roll for scatter every time they gate. If that's the case then the DW units get VS every time as the rule is worded almost identical but say every time they DS.

Just to clarify I was NEVER asking of VS transferee to GK units.

Wagz86 wrote:
No they won't I agree. But what I'm saying is do the DW get VS every single time they gate? Some have said no but now you are saying that TP from belial means they don't roll for scatter every time they gate. If that's the case then the DW units get VS every time as the rule is worded almost identical but say every time they DS.

Just to clarify I was NEVER asking of VS transferee to GK units.

Fair enough, but the way it looks yes, Each time you deep strike you get the VS rule to proc.

I went over the rules and looked them over.

GOI will trigger VS
Belials tactical precision will apply to what ever unit he is in.

Ah cool. Good to know. Also. Does draigo pass his first turn rule to the unit he's with so hypothetically if he joins a unit including belial and 10 deathwing terminators with brother captain stern?

Wagz86 wrote:
Ah cool. Good to know. Also. Does draigo pass his first turn rule to the unit he's with so hypothetically if he joins a unit including belial and 10 deathwing terminators with brother captain stern?

I dont know his first turn rule

It's the detachment rule for nemesis strike force. Basically says any unit in the formation that begins their deployment from deepstrike rolls on turn one 3+ instead of turn 2. If he's attached to a unit that isn't a part of that formation I'm wondering if it passes. Because if he's attached it's not
Like you can roll for just him. I'm guess it's either that or he loses that rule.

Wagz86 wrote:
It's the detachment rule for nemesis strike force. Basically says any unit in the formation that begins their deployment from deepstrike rolls on turn one 3+ instead of turn 2. If he's attached to a unit that isn't a part of that formation I'm wondering if it passes. Because if he's attached it's not
Like you can roll for just him. I'm guess it's either that or he loses that rule.

No, he doesn't for one of two reasons:
1) Draft FAQ does not allow the transfer of Detachment rules to models not in the Detachment, period.

2) Draigo, when joined to another unit, is not operating as his unit for Deep Strike, but operating as part of another detachment's unit. When the check comes to see if the unit is from the Detachment, it fails, so the Special Rule does not affect the unit.

 Charistoph wrote:

Wagz86 wrote:
It's the detachment rule for nemesis strike force. Basically says any unit in the formation that begins their deployment from deepstrike rolls on turn one 3+ instead of turn 2. If he's attached to a unit that isn't a part of that formation I'm wondering if it passes. Because if he's attached it's not
Like you can roll for just him. I'm guess it's either that or he loses that rule.

No, he doesn't for one of two reasons:
1) Draft FAQ does not allow the transfer of Detachment rules to models not in the Detachment, period.

2) Draigo, when joined to another unit, is not operating as his unit for Deep Strike, but operating as part of another detachment's unit. When the check comes to see if the unit is from the Detachment, it fails, so the Special Rule does not affect the unit.

This is correct, its only units in the formation taht get he rule, Bilial is not part of that formation. You cant even add him into the formation units.