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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Who started the Great Crusade and got mankind fighting the Eldar and the Orks again?

The Emperor.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Who brought Mars on board?

The Emperor.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Who made the Imperium what it is today?

If you mean “A dictatorial theocracy”, it cannot be traced to a single person. But among others, Fatidicus (not a SM), Roboute Guilliman (a primarch, hence not a SM), Vandire (not a SM), Thor (not a SM), all the High Lords in general (none of those are SM), and did I mention various Inquisitors (not SM) acting in the background?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.

Not a space marine by any rate. Predate them by millennia afawk, doesn't have any of their implants afawk, doesn't share their mentality at all (atheist/rationalist…)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...

Only if you distort everything into a space marine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
but 40k has always revolved around loyal space marines and traitor marines.

Let's be real for a second. 40k revolves around loyal space marines.
I'm going to expand on that by having a look at all the starter pack listed on Lexicanicum:
2nd ed: SM versus ORKS
3rd ed: SM versus DARK ELDARS
4th ed: SM versus TYRANIDS
5th ed: SM versus ORKS
6th ed: SM versus CSM
If anything, 40k revolves more around Orks than around CSM. And I am not talking only about starter pack, video games tend to focus more on Orks than on CSM imo, and Orks had a huge international campaign just like CSM, …

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Who started the Great Crusade and got mankind fighting the Eldar and the Orks again?

The Emperor.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Who brought Mars on board?

The Emperor.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Who made the Imperium what it is today?

If you mean “A dictatorial theocracy”, it cannot be traced to a single person. But among others, Fatidicus (not a SM), Roboute Guilliman (a primarch, hence not a SM), Vandire (not a SM), Thor (not a SM), all the High Lords in general (none of those are SM), and did I mention various Inquisitors (not SM) acting in the background?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
And finally, who do Sisters of Battle worship? The Emperor, the Ultimate Space Marine.

Not a space marine by any rate. Predate them by millennia afawk, doesn't have any of their implants afawk, doesn't share their mentality at all (atheist/rationalist…)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Space Marines drive everything about the games, the GW company, everything...

Only if you distort everything into a space marine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
but 40k has always revolved around loyal space marines and traitor marines.

Let's be real for a second. 40k revolves around loyal space marines.
I'm going to expand on that by having a look at all the starter pack listed on Lexicanicum:
2nd ed: SM versus ORKS
3rd ed: SM versus DARK ELDARS
4th ed: SM versus TYRANIDS
5th ed: SM versus ORKS
6th ed: SM versus CSM
If anything, 40k revolves more around Orks than around CSM. And I am not talking only about starter pack, video games tend to focus more on Orks than on CSM imo, and Orks had a huge international campaign just like CSM, …

When I started I actually thought the barbarous hordes of Orks were the big bad.

S.Y.

Here is my plan: I'm going to buy store credit at my LGS every pay day till the Sisters come out. And when they come out I am going to cash it in for the Codex and one of everything my LGS manages to get in Sisters!

Don't worry, I'll keep my vintage Sisters in the display case and bring them out to help the new girls out from time to time. Gota show these kids how it's done.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).

The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.

StupidYellow wrote:
When I started I actually thought the barbarous hordes of Orks were the big bad.

Can't blame you when their description usually explicitly say that they could literally overthrow everyone and everything else if they united. And let's not forget about how an ork almost killed the Emperor too.

I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

Anyway, I think this has shot considerably off topic now. I say we keep bugging WHTV until they give us a full confirmation

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

I don't think anyone is denying this. Now what happened to the CSM? Is their box the second best selling one?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

I would say that no other faction is in the same league as SM, at the very least sales wise (people's feelings notwithstanding). Does that mean that all other factions should not have plastic core units, and that should be handled by FW?

I mean, space marines have literal scores of plastic units... would it be too much to ask for a couple boxes of space nuns? I'd love to see them, as much as I'd love to see Arbites, naval troops, multiple plastic IG regiments, more alien races... but I do love me my fluff and smaller scale games, so...

 gorgon wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).

The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.

Power armor and Rhino do not make a space marine. As explained above, they are a ladder in the
Conscript -> Guard -> Veteran -> Scion -> Sister(different ones) -> Spess Muhreen

They do not have drop pods and other SM tricks. They play differently. Do Tempestus Scions wiht Hot-Shots and Plasma play the same way than Grenadier Meltavets in Chimera just because of the Carapace? Sisters and Marines are waaaaay more different than this.

Furthermore, they can bring along priests, inquisitorial staff&stuff, penintent engine, priests, repentia, and older models redone.

 -DE- wrote:
Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.

Other than being girls in pseudo-power armor, they simply don't differ enough from stock space marines. They are clad in power armor, wield bolters and meltaguns, and ride in rhinos. This is what makes them poor-man's space marine army - cheap in design, not lucre. Everything else is nuance that a prospective buyer won't research before opting for a space marine force instead. And let me tell you, males are more likely to go for a boys army. Nuns in space is for already established 40K fans, and even then only for a small fraction of them.

Sisters have been neglected for a long time for a reason. Meanwhile, the CSM use ancient models despite being one of the most popular armies in the game. Other than Raptors in 2012, they haven't gotten an infantry update since 2007. That's 9 years! Why devote resources to an army that will sell boxes in a short burst instead of doing the same for an army that will provide a steady flow of sales? As for Magnus, I'm sure most CSM players would trade that for a brand new Noise Marine, Plague Marine or Obliterator box.

The fluff is a large reason why people play the armies that they do and sisters are very different from marines in that regard. This picture gives a good idea of what sisters are to me:


Sisters of battle don't wage war. They purge the heretic and the witch by way of the holy trinity. They are absolutely fanatic to the point of insanity. Their faith is so absolute that it manifests physically ffs. Not unlike orks.
The bolter isn't just a kinda important tool, it's literally holy to them. Impaling you on a stack and burning you alive at the mere hint of chaos taint is their holy duty and they don't just do it without hesitation, they revel in it.

As far as I'm concerned, sisters of battle are amongst the most grimdark factions the game has. Which is why I love them. They also happen to look bad ass.
I just hope they keep the grimdark tone to the sisters, I don't want the equivalent of 40k paladins, I want my flying rodent gak insane witch hunters.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

Nice moving the goalpost here.

Nobody said Murheenz are not prominent; people just do not think that since none can beat marines, other factions should deserve neglect and oblivion.

 -DE- wrote:
Dark Eldar sold well in 2010, then the sales rapidly fell off and nowadays they are one of the least played armies in the game and haven't received any new models for a long time, with no prospects for an update. The same thing will happen with Sisters of Battle, I'm positive.

That's true for any line. Sales are very forward heavy. Marines sell as they get new releases all the time. No big secrets there. Any box generates sales at first, then trickle. Chaos no different.

Not quite as bad as halve releases, halve saves but not that far off.

Guess you would prefer more loal marines then

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

Nice moving the goalpost here.

Nobody said Murheenz are not prominent; people just do not think that since none can beat marines, other factions should deserve neglect and oblivion.

Money talks. If Sisters sold well, only an idiot, or Tom Kirby, would have dropped them. Nobody ditches a product that sells well, unless it has lead paint or asbestos in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

I don't think anyone is denying this. Now what happened to the CSM? Is their box the second best selling one?

I would lay long odds that CSM are more popular and sell more than SoB.

I am reliably informed that one of GW's best selling products these days, is Dark Vengeance, which obviously contains CSM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

I would say that no other faction is in the same league as SM, at the very least sales wise (people's feelings notwithstanding). Does that mean that all other factions should not have plastic core units, and that should be handled by FW?

I mean, space marines have literal scores of plastic units... would it be too much to ask for a couple boxes of space nuns? I'd love to see them, as much as I'd love to see Arbites, naval troops, multiple plastic IG regiments, more alien races... but I do love me my fluff and smaller scale games, so...

I don't want any faction scrapped. If I were in charge, Sisters would get the new stuff, but ultimately in the long run, business sense would determine the decision making process.

If it sold well, keep making it. If it doesn't sell well, stop making it.

And it would get a fair crack of the whip from me with advertising, and so on...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Money talks. If Sisters sold well, only an idiot, or Tom Kirby, would have dropped them. Nobody ditches a product that sells well, unless it has lead paint or asbestos in it.
.

Gw is known for releasing product that exceeded their own expectation big time and then dump them.

They aproved release even if they thought it wouldn't sell well enough that even 400% times expectations is not enough?

I'm actually thinking of selling my SM forces (Blood Ravens if anyone is interested) once we have a full confirmation that Sisters are coming in plastic. Coming from Dark Heresy, the Sororitas just embody the spirit of the Grimdark to me.

All good things,

- EnTyme

GW is on a roll. Genestealer Cults.. plastic sisters. Squats are coming soon, mark my words.

Always loved that FW SOB rhino.. the dozer blade with the vertical blades in it.. wish they would have just sold that dozer blade separately. I asked once and they said no :( Hopefully that will become plasticified eventually.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


only an idiot, or Tom Kirby,

First moving the goalpost, then repeating yourself. *shakes head*

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).

The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.

Power armor and Rhino do not make a space marine. As explained above, they are a ladder in the
Conscript -> Guard -> Veteran -> Scion -> Sister(different ones) -> Spess Muhreen

They do not have drop pods and other SM tricks. They play differently. Do Tempestus Scions wiht Hot-Shots and Plasma play the same way than Grenadier Meltavets in Chimera just because of the Carapace? Sisters and Marines are waaaaay more different than this.

But there are many conceptual similarities in either example, and beyond gender in the SM/SoB comparison, the differences wouldn't be apparent to a new player.

What you would say about a new faction that tools around in Wave Serpents, wears carapace armor, and uses shuriken weaponry and fusion guns? They're pseudo-Eldar, right? And I could protest and say that they don't have Farseers or Wraithknights. But you'd say fine...but they're still pseudo-Eldar. Same thing here.

Furthermore, they can bring along priests, inquisitorial staff&stuff, penintent engine, priests, repentia, and older models redone.

 Roknar wrote:
The fluff is a large reason why people play the armies that they do and sisters are very different from marines in that regard. This picture gives a good idea of what sisters are to me:

Spoiler:

Like I said in my previous post, the freakshow stuff is where the opportunity lies IMO. Put more focus on the Ecclesiarchy stuff and (importantly) give it solid, attractive rules, and you might have something that doesn't look like marines in power corsets.

Damn, now i feel like posting a pic of my Celestine my Friend Painted up for me...

But other than that, i could feel GW will keep the same formula for sisters, but expand on the Lunatic part a bit more
Stuff like variant Pentient Engines, Variant Repentia ect
Perhaps some more special characters as well (as they only have Celestine and Jacobus, both AWESOME in their own right)

Im Hoping for a Cannoness Multi part Kit (like the SM Commander)
But i REALLY hope Celestine FINALLY gets EW and she Still has her Self-Rez Ability (and AP2 Sword?)

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

Oddly enough, when I used to think of 40k it was the Sisters of Battle that always came to my mind first followed by the Inquisition.
THEY were cool, and I still think that they have scores more flavor and style over Space Marines.
By your logic everyone should play Ultra Marines but they do not.
People have reasons for choosing an army, and me it is how they look , followed by fluff. Stats are very last on the list.
Variety is never bad.

I just want my jump-pack canoness back lol.

 gorgon wrote:

What you would say about a new faction that tools around in Wave Serpents, wears carapace armor, and uses shuriken weaponry and fusion guns? They're pseudo-Eldar, right? And I could protest and say that they don't have Farseers or Wraithknights. But you'd say fine...but they're still pseudo-Eldar. Same thing here.

I think you are conveniently ignoring important elements like S, T, I, and ASTKNF. Or no land raiders, or stuff like the exorcist. Ad as I said but apparently is the case to repeat, priests, penitent, repentia and the potential for other ecchlesiarchy shenanigans drift sisters away from SMs. The freakshow you are talking about yourself!

Additional note: all (or most) human factions use melta and plasma, but is not played in the same way, in the same units, in the same amount. So the shuriken example is weak.

Furthermore, funny you brought up eldars - FW considered worthwhile add a new eldar faction that is a mix of Craftworld, Dark and new stuff. You know, they bothered to make it a new faction and whatnot. With new rules, some new model and some old one.

Sisters would look immediately better and more unique straight away if they removed the back pack from their power armour.

We all know power armour can come in different shapes and sizes, so why don't they make theirs look even more different than that of space marines. Combined with the lack of sealed helmets and the almost layered aspect to the armour, it would be power armour that looks even less like your standard marine power armour straight away.

Second aspect of the sisters I have never liked, even though it may be fluffy is the hair cuts... They need to get rid of that uniformed look, it makes them all look the same, and boring again. Skin head with topknots on the sisters of silence looks so much more aesthetic to the theme if they want a uniformed styling. A bob or whatever it is called is about as menacing as a pug puppy.

 Roknar wrote:
Badass McBadassery here

This is exactly why I love sisters, their zealotry is pure maddening. No fury is purer when it is roared through faith.

Edit: 'Sisters aren't a good army cas they are girls,' if I rolled my eyes up any more they would be at the north pole.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm not calling for any 40k faction to be scrapped, least of all Sisters.

I like them all, some more so than others.

But the facts are this:

Space Marine Tactical squad is the biggest seller in GW's history, if you discount things like skull white, Chaos Black, and Devlin mud (before any smart ass chips in )

I have owned a few in my time. Everybody I have ever known in the hobby has owned at least 1 tactical squad in their time. That's a good few hundred people.

Granted, point 2 is anecdotal, but I bet that 99.9% of all dakka members own a tactical squad, have owned a tactical squad, or know somebody who does.

Sisters are a good faction, they add to the game, but they're not in the same league as SM when it comes to fluff, sales or cultural appeal.

And a year or so ago, the arguments you're making could have been used against the introduction of Mechanicus and Harlequin armies, and a couple of months ago against GSCult being added to the game, and several years back against the introduction of Tau and Dark Eldar v1. And would still apply in future if GW decide to make Arbites or re-make the Inquisition with a plastic range. I guess we should all just be glad you don't work for GW.

Of course, if we dig into the argument a little it rather falls apart. Space Marines need 40K, and 40K needs variety to remain viable. Lets say we took the argument to an extreme, and GW removed every faction except SM and CSM(not from the fluff, they would just stop selling models and rules for them), ostensibly the only parts of the setting that "really matter" and in the former case which unequivocally sell the best - what do you think happens to the game, to the company? I mean, SM sell best, so GW could just keep selling the same amount of SM and everything would be fine, right? Of course not. Even with the Horus Heresy line, the perfect system by your argument's measure, has been deliberately expanded by FW to include more factions that can fit into the story to try and entice in more players, because they're smart enough to know that more players means a healthier network effect, which in turn encourages more spending from your SM-loving Whale customers.

It's a symbiosis - without SM sales it's probably true that the system as a whole wouldn't remain viable, at least not as the present level of investment, SM are the big lumbering wildebeast, the host organism, and everything else depends on them for survival. Yet without all the little critters and microorganisms that depend on it, it too would die because they each serve it a vital function. SM are only cool because they're defined in relation to everything else, and so while you can argue the amount of support that should be devoted to other factions, there's no argument at all that they shouldn't be getting any support or that a richer, more varied setting with a wider variety of faction choices isn't good for SM sales.

And further, for the record, do you know what got me, at one point an actual young male human, into 40K as a system? Walking into GW for a game of WHFB and seeing this on the shelf:



Since then I've spent a probably ludicrous amount of money on GW models, a lot of them were even Space Marines, but this whole "SoB will fail 'cos young boys will be all EWWWW GIRLCOOTIES!" shtick is just silly. And actually not a little sexist. And also probably really wrong, given it's very similar to the argument used against including female lead characters in videogames, which has also turned out to be wrong.

 gorgon wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Accept that people that do not like having Muhreenz in their face 24/7, and we could be fine even without them (not something I wish, albeit seeing them in 1735715 flavours begins to nauseate me).

The issue for Sisters is that (at least in pure Sisters forces) they're like yet another flavor of SM.

Sure apart from their stats, their army unique mechanic, their gender, their background, their lack of superhuman abilities, the aesthetic of their gear...

They use bolters, power armour, and Rhinos. So do the Inquisition. So do some variants of the Imperial Militia HH list.

That said, I would have zero objection to GW playing up the Ecclesiarchy side of the faction more to make them more distinct - who wouldn't want plastic Cultists, Frateris Militia, Preachers, giant floaty-death pulpits, cyber-penitants, giant robot walker cyber-penitants, attack-cherubs, and any other potential gothic religious whackaloonery GW can come up with? Sound great to me.

I guess we should all just be glad you don't work for GW.

You missed my earlier post that said if I were in charge of GW I'd happily sell Sisters of battle.

You also missed my earlier post about Harlequins.

As for Tau and Dark Eldar, I would have given them a fair chance, and then applied sound economics to them.

If they sell, keep selling, if they don't, stop selling.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Coca Cola is the most popular drink in the world, but does that mean that everybody drinks nothing but coca cola?

Of course not, and that is the logic I'm applying here. Space Marines are the engine of 40k, but other people play other factions, and they enrich the game.

You'll get no argument from me on that, but it would be silly to suggest Space Marines are not the most most popular force in the game.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Money talks.

I see what you mean. Chaos marines obviously don't sell well enough for GW to redo their kits. Sisters however are getting redone. Yeah, make sense. Seems like a bit of a sudden backtracking from your side, though… Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?

I don't think GW helped themselves by stating in the initial Codex that Sisters would work best as Allies rather than as an army in their own right.

Didn't stop me buying a load though.


Right now, and this is purely wishlisting, I think it would be great if GW drummed up interest by mirroring the Overkill/ Genestealer Cult reintroduction with a 'Sanctuary 101' Sisters/ Necron box.

Get people hooked and follow up with a fully fleshed out release.

After all, that's why I'm sitting here with two boxes of Neophytes an a couple of Goliaths to add to my Overkill Cultists.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Money talks.

I see what you mean. Chaos marines obviously don't sell well enough for GW to redo their kits. Sisters however are getting redone. Yeah, make sense. Seems like a bit of a sudden backtracking from your side, though… Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?

Were you not arguing that it was a terrible idea to redo Sisters instead of doing CSM just a few messages ago?

No.