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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

Meh. Both are terrible brushes compared to series 7 or 8404, and way too expensive in comparison.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
"so much non-GW value out there, so much good stuff, it's difficult to go back. "

Very true, this.

Apologies for banging the Vallejo drum, but I bitterly regret not making the switch over to them years ago. I love the liquid gold set, and their individual paint pots beat GW hands down IMO

Compare this (all prices from Wayland Games in British pounds)

Vallejo: 17ml, a dropper bottle (which I prefer) = £1.96

Citadel 12ml, flip lid (which I don't like) = £2.05

Quality of paint is more or less equal IMO.

As much as I like Citadel paints, the quality and the value for money is elsewhere, and not just on paints.

Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

It might be death by a thousand cuts for GW.

i can't stand Vallejo, for the most part...
i have had horrible luck with their paints (both with paints arriving in the mail dried or horribly separated, and droppers cracking), and i'm no fan of dropper bottles since i like to paint straight from the pot...
i am firmly in the P3 paint and W&N brush camp...

Citadel minis are still my favorites, though

cheers
jah

Slowly but surely they are emulating the old:
New/old white dwarf,
Got a new "community" (gasp!) website.
What is the world coming to?

oldzoggy wrote:I like smoke and mirrors. If they make me happy. Also their new box sets are great.

So do I. I bought so much in 2016, it worked that is for sure, at least on me. I believe from what I read, same for others as well.

morgoth wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

Meh. Both are terrible brushes compared to series 7 or 8404, and way too expensive in comparison.

I got mine for pretty cheap, dirt cheap in fact. Perhaps the seller was having a fire sale, but I thought they were excellent value for money, and I've never had a problem with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
"so much non-GW value out there, so much good stuff, it's difficult to go back. "

Very true, this.

Apologies for banging the Vallejo drum, but I bitterly regret not making the switch over to them years ago. I love the liquid gold set, and their individual paint pots beat GW hands down IMO

Compare this (all prices from Wayland Games in British pounds)

Vallejo: 17ml, a dropper bottle (which I prefer) = £1.96

Citadel 12ml, flip lid (which I don't like) = £2.05

Quality of paint is more or less equal IMO.

As much as I like Citadel paints, the quality and the value for money is elsewhere, and not just on paints.

Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

It might be death by a thousand cuts for GW.

i can't stand Vallejo, for the most part...
i have had horrible luck with their paints (both with paints arriving in the mail dried or horribly separated, and droppers cracking), and i'm no fan of dropper bottles since i like to paint straight from the pot...
i am firmly in the P3 paint and W&N brush camp...

Citadel minis are still my favorites, though

cheers
jah

Don't get me wrong, citadel paints are of an excellent quality, I've still got goblin green from the 1990s

But there is a whole range of excellent alternatives out there. I've never had a problem yet with Vallejo, and thank God for that, but I suppose at the end of the day, everybody's experience is different.

I'm probably the only person on dakka that bought original finecast and never had a problem with it. Got lucky I guess


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
Slowly but surely they are emulating the old:
New/old white dwarf,
Got a new "community" (gasp!) website.
What is the world coming to?

Yes, there is a marked improvement, but it's the same old price structure

I'm a cheapskate who never buys sand (I get it for free from the beach) but even if I were to buy sand, GW would be the last place I'd look. Same with PVA glue and other model supplies.

£8 for a modelling spatula

I buy a pack of 100 ice lolly sticks for pennies in comparison and they do the same thing.

You can have a great business culture, excellent products, but if cheaper alternatives, of equal quality are available elsewhere, I go elsewhere.

You vote with your wallet and GW has yet to learn that, acting as though it were still the 1990s.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

Meh. Both are terrible brushes compared to series 7 or 8404, and way too expensive in comparison.

I got mine for pretty cheap, dirt cheap in fact. Perhaps the seller was having a fire sale, but I thought they were excellent value for money, and I've never had a problem with them.

I second Morgoth... Invested in a few series 7 and haven't regretted this since then

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
"so much non-GW value out there, so much good stuff, it's difficult to go back. "

Very true, this.

Apologies for banging the Vallejo drum, but I bitterly regret not making the switch over to them years ago. I love the liquid gold set, and their individual paint pots beat GW hands down IMO

Compare this (all prices from Wayland Games in British pounds)

Vallejo: 17ml, a dropper bottle (which I prefer) = £1.96

Citadel 12ml, flip lid (which I don't like) = £2.05

Quality of paint is more or less equal IMO.

As much as I like Citadel paints, the quality and the value for money is elsewhere, and not just on paints.

Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

It might be death by a thousand cuts for GW.

i can't stand Vallejo, for the most part...
i have had horrible luck with their paints (both with paints arriving in the mail dried or horribly separated, and droppers cracking), and i'm no fan of dropper bottles since i like to paint straight from the pot...
i am firmly in the P3 paint and W&N brush camp...

Citadel minis are still my favorites, though

cheers
jah

Don't get me wrong, citadel paints are of an excellent quality, I've still got goblin green from the 1990s

But there is a whole range of excellent alternatives out there. I've never had a problem yet with Vallejo, and thank God for that, but I suppose at the end of the day, everybody's experience is different.

I'm probably the only person on dakka that bought original finecast and never had a problem with it. Got lucky I guess

Nah... Only had problems with Vallejo... Always dried up patchy no matter what I do (--> Thin with water or medium)... But there mediums are excellent.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
Slowly but surely they are emulating the old:
New/old white dwarf,
Got a new "community" (gasp!) website.
What is the world coming to?

Yes, there is a marked improvement, but it's the same old price structure

I'm a cheapskate who never buys sand (I get it for free from the beach) but even if I were to buy sand, GW would be the last place I'd look. Same with PVA glue and other model supplies.

£8 for a modelling spatula

I buy a pack of 100 ice lolly sticks for pennies in comparison and they do the same thing.

You can have a great business culture, excellent products, but if cheaper alternatives, of equal quality are available elsewhere, I go elsewhere.

You vote with your wallet and GW has yet to learn that, acting as though it were still the 1990s.

Indeed... Hobby supplies are way overpriced... But I think that is just a bonus for GW...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

Meh. Both are terrible brushes compared to series 7 or 8404, and way too expensive in comparison.

I got mine for pretty cheap, dirt cheap in fact. Perhaps the seller was having a fire sale, but I thought they were excellent value for money, and I've never had a problem with them.

What I mean is that when you can have the best brush in the world for about 7-10 bucks, anything else is a rip off to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SKR.HH wrote:


Indeed... Hobby supplies are way overpriced... But I think that is just a bonus for GW...

And everyone in the industry sells overpriced PVA ... when that thing is used in house building and costs peanuts...

morgoth wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

Meh. Both are terrible brushes compared to series 7 or 8404, and way too expensive in comparison.

The AP Brushes are great for "I'm base coating and layering xyz terrain/army/boring large surfaces" - I've used their 00 / fine details ones and they're terrible. Overall - the brushes are great for the prices.

I own a few 8404 - so around $100 for four brushes but I've cranked out nearly 1000 models with them. GWs brushes carried me through my first thousand models painted though - they aren't terrible - but for their price not worth it

 Stevefamine wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

Meh. Both are terrible brushes compared to series 7 or 8404, and way too expensive in comparison.

The AP Brushes are great for "I'm base coating and layering xyz terrain/army/boring large surfaces" - I've used their 00 / fine details ones and they're terrible. Overall - the brushes are great for the prices.

I do that with an airbrush, that must be why I find them pointless.

I am very curious about the next financial report. With gsc, Deathwatch, bloodbowl, thousand sons, a supposedly resurgent aos, burning of prospero, heavily discounted bundles of popular models, the reintroduction of very popular classic models, and the rumour of sisters to come, you have to feel that Gw has had a very good few months.

Chikout wrote:
I am very curious about the next financial report. With gsc, Deathwatch, bloodbowl, thousand sons, a supposedly resurgent aos, burning of prospero, heavily discounted bundles of popular models, the reintroduction of very popular classic models, and the rumour of sisters to come, you have to feel that Gw has had a very good few months.

Maybe but they didn't mention any of that recently only that exchange rates will see a slightly higher than expected first year result.

Even if they start to take a beating in sales, they will still see people willing to drop the same cash a brand new 360 costs on a single model and keep that going. If anything, they will be motivated instead to increase model price to the point that people WON'T buy them and scale it back .5% from there.

Chikout wrote:I am very curious about the next financial report. With gsc, Deathwatch, bloodbowl, thousand sons, a supposedly resurgent aos, burning of prospero, heavily discounted bundles of popular models, the reintroduction of very popular classic models, and the rumour of sisters to come, you have to feel that Gw has had a very good few months.

You forgot to mention Traitor Legions. Do you think this would increase sales?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
"so much non-GW value out there, so much good stuff, it's difficult to go back. "

Very true, this.

Apologies for banging the Vallejo drum, but I bitterly regret not making the switch over to them years ago. I love the liquid gold set, and their individual paint pots beat GW hands down IMO

Compare this (all prices from Wayland Games in British pounds)

Vallejo: 17ml, a dropper bottle (which I prefer) = £1.96

Citadel 12ml, flip lid (which I don't like) = £2.05

Quality of paint is more or less equal IMO.

As much as I like Citadel paints, the quality and the value for money is elsewhere, and not just on paints.

Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

It might be death by a thousand cuts for GW.

Apple Barrel, 236 ml = £2.02 ($2.50 American)

That's my preferred paint, having had used both Citadel and P3 paints to compare against.

Davor wrote:

Chikout wrote:I am very curious about the next financial report. With gsc, Deathwatch, bloodbowl, thousand sons, a supposedly resurgent aos, burning of prospero, heavily discounted bundles of popular models, the reintroduction of very popular classic models, and the rumour of sisters to come, you have to feel that Gw has had a very good few months.

You forgot to mention Traitor Legions. Do you think this would increase sales?

The base codex is still CSM though.

You can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter.

I would conclude by saying that they have made some improvements, but as others have said, they are at a low level, so they can only get better.

None the less, fundamental issues still remain:

Their declaration of war against Australia and New Zealand

Their crazy price structure (why is a 5 man Sternguard squad more expensive than a comparable Imperial Guard Squad in compotents and box content?)

The problem with paints and hobby supplies as mentioned above i.e why is it more expensive than a rival equivalent for the same thing?

And apologies to AOS fans, but why is that steaming pile of horsegak, Age of Space Marine, still on the shelves? Purge it!!!!!*

*I'm still bitter about the contempt GW had for long term fans and collectors like myself when AOS was first announced....

And 40k needs a mega overhaul....

Until these issues are addressed, I still think GW have a long way to go....




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
"so much non-GW value out there, so much good stuff, it's difficult to go back. "

Very true, this.

Apologies for banging the Vallejo drum, but I bitterly regret not making the switch over to them years ago. I love the liquid gold set, and their individual paint pots beat GW hands down IMO

Compare this (all prices from Wayland Games in British pounds)

Vallejo: 17ml, a dropper bottle (which I prefer) = £1.96

Citadel 12ml, flip lid (which I don't like) = £2.05

Quality of paint is more or less equal IMO.

As much as I like Citadel paints, the quality and the value for money is elsewhere, and not just on paints.

Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

It might be death by a thousand cuts for GW.

Apple Barrel, 236 ml = £2.02 ($2.50 American)

That's my preferred paint, having had used both Citadel and P3 paints to compare against.

Bargains to be had everywhere. Keep up the good work.

I live near the coast, so plenty of free sand for me

And there's good quality slate nearby, so I pick some up, break it up, and instant basing material for free.

The world is your hobby supply shop

I started 40k roughly 2 years ago. Back then the company had nothing to do with what is now. It was zero user friendly, I had nowhere to start with: no starters, no cool bundles, damn I am not sure if we even had Warhammer TV around. I had literally no Idea how to begin with, there was only youtubers that could help me. They didn't even want to sell stuff in my country, they denied our chance of having store and all you could buy was either Ebay or their site. Now we have at least 3 shops selling GW now. I can grab the bus and go the center and buy some paints and minis.

Now it is different. It seems that GW actually are reading what is happening in forums and etc.
There are still some drawbacks thou, like you never have enough of special weapons or proper "hands" in the sprue and etc. SM maybe flexible as army, but they still suck as Kits.

 DalinCriid wrote:
I started 40k roughly 2 years ago. Back then the company had nothing to do with what is now. It was zero user friendly, I had nowhere to start with: no starters, no cool bundles, damn I am not sure if we even had Warhammer TV around. I had literally no Idea how to begin with, there was only youtubers that could help me. They didn't even want to sell stuff in my country, they denied our chance of having store and all you could buy was either Ebay or their site. Now we have at least 3 shops selling GW now. I can grab the bus and go the center and buy some paints and minis.

Now it is different. It seems that GW actually are reading what is happening in forums and etc.
There are still some drawbacks thou, like you never have enough of special weapons or proper "hands" in the sprue and etc. SM maybe flexible as army, but they still suck as Kits.

That's kinda the problem you never knew GW in its heyday, sure it's better since Kirby left the CEO seat but it's still gak compared to the early 00's whose deals made a mockery of today's.

Return of old metals in HIGH demand (diaznettes), return of SoB, return of GSC, lowered price getting started boxes, being more open online and talking about upcoming projects, fixing white dwarf...they are getting better. Granted, they were in a bad spot and could only go up. But they are seriously improving. The people who deny they are improving are honestly just trying to be miserable people.

Woot!! 10,000th post!!!!

I won't deny that worldwide, there are 3 people happy that SoB are finally getting new stuff

but that's hardly indicative of turning the corner.

The proof, as always, will be in the cold hard data of spreadsheets and yearly financial reports.

 jah-joshua wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
"so much non-GW value out there, so much good stuff, it's difficult to go back. "

Very true, this.

Apologies for banging the Vallejo drum, but I bitterly regret not making the switch over to them years ago. I love the liquid gold set, and their individual paint pots beat GW hands down IMO

Compare this (all prices from Wayland Games in British pounds)

Vallejo: 17ml, a dropper bottle (which I prefer) = £1.96

Citadel 12ml, flip lid (which I don't like) = £2.05

Quality of paint is more or less equal IMO.

As much as I like Citadel paints, the quality and the value for money is elsewhere, and not just on paints.

Army Painter brushes are very good and cheaper than the Citadel equivalent and the soft tone ink is a must buy in my book.

It might be death by a thousand cuts for GW.

i can't stand Vallejo, for the most part...
i have had horrible luck with their paints (both with paints arriving in the mail dried or horribly separated, and droppers cracking), and i'm no fan of dropper bottles since i like to paint straight from the pot...
i am firmly in the P3 paint and W&N brush camp...

Citadel minis are still my favorites, though

cheers
jah

I think it is time to form the anti-vallejo movement. I have some really nice colors from their points, but overall I absolutely loathe Vallejo.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I won't deny that worldwide, there are 3 people happy that SoB are finally getting new stuff

Wow, what an untired, unboring old joke that has never been trodden into the ground before.

Thousand Sons Rubric Marines in the UK: £30
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines in Oz (converted to £): £49.50.

And the Thousand Sons Terminators are AUD$20 more expensive than the Dark Angel or Blood Angel Terminators. They're more expensive than the 5 Termies + Termy Captain bundle. The only Terminators more expensive are the absurdly and insultingly overpriced Cataphractii Terminators.

They.

Are.

Not.

Getting.

Better.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines in the UK: £30
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines in Oz (converted to £): £49.50.

And the Thousand Sons Terminators are AUD$20 more expensive than the Dark Angel or Blood Angel Terminators. They're more expensive than the 5 Termies + Termy Captain bundle. The only Terminators more expensive are the absurdly and insultingly overpriced Cataphractii Terminators.

They.

Are.

Not.

Getting.

Better.

They must be getting better if you changed your Avatar.

Thing is, this is not just a GW thing that is happening in NZ and Australia, a lot of companies do that sadly. Do you guys have great hourly wages there or what? How do you guys afford to live there?

Are you Brylcreem in disguise?

Here's a little tip for our friends in NZ/AU.

I live in Belgium, a tiny tiny country that has tiny tiny importers and ridiculously gakky prices compared to neighbouring countries.

Anything you want to buy you can get at least 10% cheaper in France, another 10% cheaper in Germany, and easily another 10% cheaper in the US.

So what do we do ? We buy most of our stuff from Germany, and some from the US.

So stop whining, get organized, import your plastic crack and who cares about the idiotic importers who think they can sell the same gak at +20%.

I'm sure you can already find plenty of people who'll buy and ship the sprues to Oz for less than the £19.50 difference (IIRC last thing I sent to Oz was about £6 in shipping)

Those T-Sons prices! What a joke.

I think some people are going to complain about GW just on principle. Personally I think the company has made great strides to address the gak they've been peddling the last couple of years, yes mistakes have been made but far fewer in the last year. Every model company has come out with some utter crap ( Privateer Press soft plastic comes to mind ), but this new GW has listened to the community and looked at it's sales and done a full 180 on some of it bad decisions ( White Dwarf, Specialist Games etc ). Age of Sigmar wasn't every-bodies favourite release ( and boy did the haters go on and on and on... ), but the new releases for 40k ( Deathwatch, GSC, Admech ) have exceeded expectations and show a bright future for further hinted releases.
Yes the prices are high and people expecting full armies for certain prices are just kidding themselves, other model companies charge the same or more per model yet don't receive the same backlash because they've always charged that amount and people don't remember the good old days when this model was this price etc for that company.

morgoth wrote:
Here's a little tip for our friends in NZ/AU.

I live in Belgium, a tiny tiny country that has tiny tiny importers and ridiculously gakky prices compared to neighbouring countries.

Anything you want to buy you can get at least 10% cheaper in France, another 10% cheaper in Germany, and easily another 10% cheaper in the US.

So what do we do ? We buy most of our stuff from Germany, and some from the US.

So stop whining, get organized, import your plastic crack and who cares about the idiotic importers who think they can sell the same gak at +20%.

Yes, we often forget how easy it is for Australians to get in their cars and drive across the border to Germany or the Netherlands or even Luxembourg and France.

I joke of course

Over the years, I've sold a lot of GW stuff to Australian customers (Maybe even some dakka members, who knows) so you think I'd be happy with the status quo and an opportunity to keep making money, but I think it's a shoddy way to treat a loyal fanbase...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I think some people are going to complain about GW just on principle. Personally I think the company has made great strides to address the gak they've been peddling the last couple of years, yes mistakes have been made but far fewer in the last year. Every model company has come out with some utter crap ( Privateer Press soft plastic comes to mind ), but this new GW has listened to the community and looked at it's sales and done a full 180 on some of it bad decisions ( White Dwarf, Specialist Games etc ). Age of Sigmar wasn't every-bodies favourite release ( and boy did the haters go on and on and on... ), but the new releases for 40k ( Deathwatch, GSC, Admech ) have exceeded expectations and show a bright future for further hinted releases.
Yes the prices are high and people expecting full armies for certain prices are just kidding themselves, other model companies charge the same or more per model yet don't receive the same backlash because they've always charged that amount and people don't remember the good old days when this model was this price etc for that company.

You forget that a lot of the AOS hate was self-inflicted by GW, especially their treatment of older models with the silly rules, which they didn't include for newer models.

I maintain to this day that it was a massive middle finger to loyal customers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Those T-Sons prices! What a joke.

Yeah, even with the 20% discount, that's still pretty harsh pricing...

As always, do what I did and vote with your feet - plenty of other good stuff out there made by other companies.

Free market and all that....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines in the UK: £30
Thousand Sons Rubric Marines in Oz (converted to £): £49.50.

And the Thousand Sons Terminators are AUD$20 more expensive than the Dark Angel or Blood Angel Terminators. They're more expensive than the 5 Termies + Termy Captain bundle. The only Terminators more expensive are the absurdly and insultingly overpriced Cataphractii Terminators.

They.

Are.

Not.

Getting.

Better.

We are in agreement!