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They're doing great if you only care about ways to burn your cash on new models/books. However, I think the game is MUCH worse off because of all the releases.

At the end of the day, if the game sucks then the models get shoveled onto ebay by a lot of people.

Mymearan wrote:For those of you who are adults with jobs: do you guys personally have a problem with the prices or is it more on principle? For me personally, I have so much stuff that I couldn't paint it in a lifetime, and anything I buy from GW is basically just an indulgence that I probably won't touch for a long time. The price doesn't really come in to it (and I don't have a huge discretionary income either). Do you guys generally have a lot of time, meaning you can purchase new stuff at such a pace that it becomes an economic problem to buy as much as you want? Or do you simply have very limited funds so even buying, say, one box in a month is too much? I can understand how students, unemployed or children would have a problem with the prices, but I would think most working adults would be able to purchase more than enough to keep busy unless they have other expensive hobbies, ESPECIALLY with these crazy box sets with 40-50% off (I would consider those prices to be very cheap for what you get).

footnote: I haven't factored in AU/NZ people... you guys are just screwed by GW.

So I make pretty good money. So what? Just because I'm not hurting financially doesn't automatically mean I want to piss it away. I want value for my dollar, not necessarily the cheapest thing out there. I eat at this joint in my town called 9 Irish Brothers, getting a dish called Bangers and Mash for around $12 US, not counting drink. Some people wouldn't pay that much for the food. I think it's the right match of quality for price. If it were cheaper, I wouldn't be upset, but if that plate of food jumped to double the price I don't think I'd hit that joint at all. Same goes with everything I'm in to. I've only seen a couple Xbox games within the last 3 years or so that were worth paying the full $60 US at retail for, so I waited on them. When the Transformers I colllect sell out before I can get to the store and ebay stores located from my area are selling them at 2-3X retail, I wait patiently for them to show up again at retail, even if it takes months. If I see a rules set I like, I judge whether it's worth the price to start in/continue with it. Right now, I don't fell that GW models are at that spot for me. Near $60 for a Vindicator tank seems insanity, and don't get me started on the squad/regiment sets. Battleforces/battalions back in the day were well worth it. I have yet to see one now that I say "Yep, that's worth it" when I see it on the shelf. A local store has a ton of 8th Ed. boxed sets that will probably go on clearance, and that'd be the only way I'd fork out for it, and even then it'd be for the models, not the lackluster rules.

Clearly the newest releases (Magnus, Ahriman, Thousand Sons squad) prove GW is really looking towards fixing their pricing issues.

Clearly.

What will the excuse be this time?

Bull market?

Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

unless you think that quality models are worth a few Squids a piece
doesn't seem like a problem to me...
i would rather have them at that price, than not have them at all...
would you rather we just didn't get any new models???
that would be a bummer...
don't get me wrong, i would love to see lower prices, but if it isn't going to happen, i would at least like to have awesome new minis, which this Tzeentch release has a bunch of...

cheers
jah

Chikout wrote:
If we compare modern Gw to 1998 gw then it is a whole different conversation, but it is literally undeniable that Gw has made a lot of positive changes in the last 18 months unless you think any of those changes are for the worse. Do you?

GW figuratively not spitting in our face, I will agree, they have gotten better, but game play wise? Like you said it's been over 18 months and the rules for 40K are still a mess. GW has done nothing here to fix the game. All GW done was fixed or gotten better in "image" but game play wise, and price wise, GW is still same old. Look at the joke GW released on the GW website for FAQs then a week later they finally released the "final FAQ for 7th edition, what ever that is suppose to mean. The first shows GW is still same old same old, but the latter shows GW has changed. So maybe it's a draw. They do new things but then act like they did last 2 years ago.

That is why I say Smoke and Mirrors. GW gives the illusion they have changed by not "spitting in our faces no more" but they are still the same when it comes to pricing individual minis and when it comes to rules, they are still not clear, concise, and still a lot of flipping here and there multiple times to see how a rule works. They still have their trade agreements in how gaming stores have to go through to buy from GW. I believe that hasn't changed as well.

Only the out side appearances of GW has changed but for now, the inner core of GW is still the same.

That said, I am enjoying the Smoke and Mirrors. Is it being a cynic or a realist? Non the less, I am enjoying the ride and have spent a lot of money on GW.

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

unless you think that quality models are worth a few Squids a piece
doesn't seem like a problem to me...
i would rather have them at that price, than not have them at all...
would you rather we just didn't get any new models???
that would be a bummer...
don't get me wrong, i would love to see lower prices, but if it isn't going to happen, i would at least like to have awesome new minis, which this Tzeentch release has a bunch of...

cheers
jah

I don't think the models quality is what's important they are game pieces, if I want a model just to make and paint I can go plenty of other places and find a better quality for less.

Price increases like this are not okay they don't increase with inflation or as a result of material and labour costs they jump up because of poor management, why should a tzeench player pay £5 more than any other marine player?

Prices go up on all products but they don't jump up 20% they go up a few pence .

Rubric marines are no more special than any other marines they should not be so much more expensive.

Prices simply can't keep going up like this it's the number one thing killing their player base, they Arnt the Apple of wargaming they can't survive on a tiny consumer group.

I'm not saying that there aren't any improvements at all. I'm saying ref 40K - as a game - that GW hasn't made what IMO are significant improvements - and the little improvements can also be occurring around areas where things get worse.

IMO if GW want me to see them as really getting better as a game and model company they need to make serious improvements to 40K. As a tyranid player most of the dex is garbage and some add on units are poor as well. Nids do not have a 7th ed dex having to use the poor 6th ed dex that was basicaly a copy paste of the lousy 5th ed nid dex. How hard would it be to TRY to fix the myriad of problems facing nids for years through errata? Not hard at all. So for over 6 years I have to play with an army that has had poor rules and numerous problems - when someone that knows the game (and hopefully the 40k designers know their game but that is questionable) could fix so many of the tyranid issues in an afternoon or at least seriously TRY to do so. But no. 6 years of nid dexes being garbage isn't somehow a priority to correct. And other armies suffer similar problems where a simple ATTEMPT to correct some of the issues could easily be attempted.

Not even talking about 7th ed as the mess it is - as far as 40K is concerned IMO I haven't seen much in improvements or that GW is doing things differently. That is what I need to see to say GW has gotten better (I would add that if prices were dropped to reasonable levels I would also consider that a real improvement)

hobojebus wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

unless you think that quality models are worth a few Squids a piece
doesn't seem like a problem to me...
i would rather have them at that price, than not have them at all...
would you rather we just didn't get any new models???
that would be a bummer...
don't get me wrong, i would love to see lower prices, but if it isn't going to happen, i would at least like to have awesome new minis, which this Tzeentch release has a bunch of...

cheers
jah

I don't think the models quality is what's important they are game pieces, if I want a model just to make and paint I can go plenty of other places and find a better quality for less.

Price increases like this are not okay they don't increase with inflation or as a result of material and labour costs they jump up because of poor management, why should a tzeench player pay £5 more than any other marine player?

Prices go up on all products but they don't jump up 20% they go up a few pence .

Rubric marines are no more special than any other marines they should not be so much more expensive.

Prices simply can't keep going up like this it's the number one thing killing their player base, they Arnt the Apple of wargaming they can't survive on a tiny consumer group.

GW doesn't price based on model count. They generally price based on how many they expect to sell. Hence Sternguard costing more for 5 then 10 Regular Space Marines. The alternative is $40usd for CSM Squads of 10 or $50 for a specialist unit of 10 models. Seems inline if not cheaper than current pricing on similar kits. Terminators are priced inline with other current Terminator kits from various ranges. The sole exception for kits that aren't 5+ years old which is just a sprue added to the current SM unit (which is a super old sprue). The infantry kit isn't even a price bump when compared with other similar units especially when you count actual models in the box.

If pricing is your ONLY metric for improvement you're always going to be disappointed and think nothing is getting better. Though that is if you're willfully ignorant of the cost you can actually build full tournament armies for in one of their games but even without that. pricing has mostly stabilized with some outliers (up and down). Also I'd personally disagree with quality for cost personally. But my preferred medium for hobbying is plastic so my personal choices are pretty darn limited in the SF arena. If your willing to be honest with yourself (which you don't seem to be) then GW has gotten better. It might be babysteps but it feels like its getting better day by day. Still takes time to change an entire corporate mentality. And let me tell you from working for them in the early 2000's that mentality was bad turning to terrible pretty quickly. So I can only imagine how much worse and deeper it went over the course of another decade. All that said prices aren't going to drop. But I do think they are stabalizing in an attempt to let the market catch up (which on a model for model basis has already happened for major wargaming model companies).

Granted if 8th is a cluster (I don't think it will be but it might be) then I'll be in the camp of the ship not turning fast enough to save it all. But the steps they are taking now and from whispers I've heard the company is getting better and making changes. Price just isn't going to be one of them outside of deals.

hobojebus wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

unless you think that quality models are worth a few Squids a piece
doesn't seem like a problem to me...
i would rather have them at that price, than not have them at all...
would you rather we just didn't get any new models???
that would be a bummer...
don't get me wrong, i would love to see lower prices, but if it isn't going to happen, i would at least like to have awesome new minis, which this Tzeentch release has a bunch of...

cheers
jah

I don't think the models quality is what's important they are game pieces, if I want a model just to make and paint I can go plenty of other places and find a better quality for less.

Price increases like this are not okay they don't increase with inflation or as a result of material and labour costs they jump up because of poor management, why should a tzeench player pay £5 more than any other marine player?

Prices go up on all products but they don't jump up 20% they go up a few pence .

Rubric marines are no more special than any other marines they should not be so much more expensive.

Prices simply can't keep going up like this it's the number one thing killing their player base, they Arnt the Apple of wargaming they can't survive on a tiny consumer group.

the question was, would you rather not have Rubrics at all, if they are going to cost 5 Squids more???

if you think that the models are just gaming pieces, then we are not even having the same conversation with each other...
to me, they are much more than gaming pieces...
they are physical representations of cool art and fiction, that we get to paint...

Rubrics are certainly more special than other Marines...
if you want Rubrics, Khorne Berzerkers will not do as a cheap alternative...
neither will a box of Tactical Marines...

Rubrics are exactly what they should be, cool power armor automatons with new weapon options, nice tabards, big headdresses, and very specific Tzeentch details...
of course, if that doesn't matter to you, then the couple bucks more may be a deal breaker...
if it is exactly what someone wants, then it's worth a few dollars more...

cheers
jah

Then you would be the kind of person the Sideshow Collectibles statues were made for, or the Forgeworld Busts of old. The rest of us are immersed in the game. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be sitting around with nothing but collected art books and Black Library novels.

Personally, I'm really enjoying my 40k gaming right now.

I do have some gripes:

Orks feeling unfluffy and too underpowered to be fun (and how on earth can Flash Gitz not have 'eavy armour?)

Forgeworld not releasing rules updates for their IA books. Those things are beautiful but cost a lot, so I feel the least they could do is keep them up to date with Errata and FAQ releases. Especially IA8 (although don't take stuff out FW!)

Forgeworld discontinuing support for the Badab War, and most of all not at least offering limited runs of transfer sheets etc. I'd give a kidney for a Carcharodons transfer sheet.

Some armies being neglected. For me it's my Grey Knights and Orks, while my Eldar and Necrons can feel too powerful to be fun. The rules call for responsible gaming, and I'm lucky to play with a great group of lads, but even so the balance issues are real and problematic.

I wish GW and FW would understand that just because something has slow sales it doesn't mean they ought to get rid of it. If we look at the Carcharodon example again, I might buy 1 transfer sheet, but then spend several hundred pounds on models. Without that transfer sheet I just won't bother.

It's the same with the feeling the game creates inside my head, and I feel this is true for many others also. I liken it to a lottery ticket. That ticket allows you to spend the weekend dreaming about your new life, escaping from reality.

Well 40k absolutely does and should do that. But the universe must feel varied. They might sell only 1 Ork army to every 5 Space Marine armies, but that Ork army is crucial in allowing those Space Marine players to dream about coming up against different and varied foes, to play out scenarios in their head. I'd like them to do more to support the less popular elements - not to even try to make them popular, but to understand that they play a crucial role in the whole.

All that said, I feel GW have really improved, and I'm getting a good vibe from them. I'm actually ok with 7th. I think cover and close combat need reworks, but I am alright with the rules bloat really, it doesn't bother me too much.

So I'm supportive of the changes they've made and are making, and I feel like they're going in the right direction, but there is still certainly work to do.

 Just Tony wrote:
Then you would be the kind of person the Sideshow Collectibles statues were made for, or the Forgeworld Busts of old. The rest of us are immersed in the game. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be sitting around with nothing but collected art books and Black Library novels.

Nah, he seems like the kind of person who recognizes that a niche product might be worth a few more bucks to players who like that particular niche that would never have seen it if it wasn't going to be priced at that amount. And that the game (40k) actually plays fine honestly. Even at a competitive level it has it's annoyances but it plays fine. The problem isn't current players. It's trying to teach new players with the current rules bloat that's the issue. Rules bloat sucks but honestly it's not to different than 3rd edition that way. Though it'd be nice if GW bothered to draft up a compendium. I was keeping one up for 40k but I don't think I can anymore. No time and no inclination.

Hulksmash wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Then you would be the kind of person the Sideshow Collectibles statues were made for, or the Forgeworld Busts of old. The rest of us are immersed in the game. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be sitting around with nothing but collected art books and Black Library novels.

Nah, he seems like the kind of person who recognizes that a niche product might be worth a few more bucks to players who like that particular niche that would never have seen it if it wasn't going to be priced at that amount. And that the game (40k) actually plays fine honestly. Even at a competitive level it has it's annoyances but it plays fine. The problem isn't current players. It's trying to teach new players with the current rules bloat that's the issue. Rules bloat sucks but honestly it's not to different than 3rd edition that way. Though it'd be nice if GW bothered to draft up a compendium. I was keeping one up for 40k but I don't think I can anymore. No time and no inclination.

...

Did you actually play 3rd edition? There wasn't a heavy rules bloat. You had less than 10 USRs, each army had 1 maybe 2 armywide special rules, and most elite units had 1 special rule on top of that. It wasn't until the modular troop system started by the Tyranids which was amped to the millionth degree by the CSM and SM codex that stuff blew past that window. With a bit of a foggy memory, I'm pretty sure that stuff did land on 3rd, but it also was before 4th hit, so could have been written with that in mind. I tried comparing the 3rd Ed. SM codex to just the 5th Ed. SM codex, and the differences in SRs was striking to say the least. 6th and 7th didn't make it any better, and most assuredly was nowhere near as streamlined as 3rd was. Say what you want about Rhino Rush and improperly used consolidation moves, 3rd Ed. was nowhere NEAR as bloated as the current edition.

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

unless you think that quality models are worth a few Squids a piece
doesn't seem like a problem to me...
i would rather have them at that price, than not have them at all...
would you rather we just didn't get any new models???
that would be a bummer...
don't get me wrong, i would love to see lower prices, but if it isn't going to happen, i would at least like to have awesome new minis, which this Tzeentch release has a bunch of...

cheers
jah

I don't think the models quality is what's important they are game pieces, if I want a model just to make and paint I can go plenty of other places and find a better quality for less.

Price increases like this are not okay they don't increase with inflation or as a result of material and labour costs they jump up because of poor management, why should a tzeench player pay £5 more than any other marine player?

Prices go up on all products but they don't jump up 20% they go up a few pence .

Rubric marines are no more special than any other marines they should not be so much more expensive.

Prices simply can't keep going up like this it's the number one thing killing their player base, they Arnt the Apple of wargaming they can't survive on a tiny consumer group.

the question was, would you rather not have Rubrics at all, if they are going to cost 5 Squids more???

if you think that the models are just gaming pieces, then we are not even having the same conversation with each other...
to me, they are much more than gaming pieces...
they are physical representations of cool art and fiction, that we get to paint...

Rubrics are certainly more special than other Marines...
if you want Rubrics, Khorne Berzerkers will not do as a cheap alternative...
neither will a box of Tactical Marines...

Rubrics are exactly what they should be, cool power armor automatons with new weapon options, nice tabards, big headdresses, and very specific Tzeentch details...
of course, if that doesn't matter to you, then the couple bucks more may be a deal breaker...
if it is exactly what someone wants, then it's worth a few dollars more...

cheers
jah

I'm not a collector I'm a gamer what matters to me is not what the game pieces look like but how fun the game is to play.

I'd much rather the game be good and popular than the models look nice but be so overpriced it's driving people away to other systems.

I can get thousands of nice models from hundreds of other companies if I want to paint something and it'll be cheaper.

Models are there to play a game with they are not high art they are toy soldiers really overpriced toy soldiers but nothing more.

hobojebus wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Yeah the £30 rubric come weeks after they said first half of the year will be better than expected thanks to the economy.

And we are out of the window when you can blame Kirby.

It's not getting better where it counts.

unless you think that quality models are worth a few Squids a piece
doesn't seem like a problem to me...
i would rather have them at that price, than not have them at all...
would you rather we just didn't get any new models???
that would be a bummer...
don't get me wrong, i would love to see lower prices, but if it isn't going to happen, i would at least like to have awesome new minis, which this Tzeentch release has a bunch of...

cheers
jah

I don't think the models quality is what's important they are game pieces, if I want a model just to make and paint I can go plenty of other places and find a better quality for less.

Price increases like this are not okay they don't increase with inflation or as a result of material and labour costs they jump up because of poor management, why should a tzeench player pay £5 more than any other marine player?

Prices go up on all products but they don't jump up 20% they go up a few pence .

Rubric marines are no more special than any other marines they should not be so much more expensive.

Prices simply can't keep going up like this it's the number one thing killing their player base, they Arnt the Apple of wargaming they can't survive on a tiny consumer group.

the question was, would you rather not have Rubrics at all, if they are going to cost 5 Squids more???

if you think that the models are just gaming pieces, then we are not even having the same conversation with each other...
to me, they are much more than gaming pieces...
they are physical representations of cool art and fiction, that we get to paint...

Rubrics are certainly more special than other Marines...
if you want Rubrics, Khorne Berzerkers will not do as a cheap alternative...
neither will a box of Tactical Marines...

Rubrics are exactly what they should be, cool power armor automatons with new weapon options, nice tabards, big headdresses, and very specific Tzeentch details...
of course, if that doesn't matter to you, then the couple bucks more may be a deal breaker...
if it is exactly what someone wants, then it's worth a few dollars more...

cheers
jah

I'm not a collector I'm a gamer what matters to me is not what the game pieces look like but how fun the game is to play.

I'd much rather the game be good and popular than the models look nice but be so overpriced it's driving people away to other systems.

I can get thousands of nice models from hundreds of other companies if I want to paint something and it'll be cheaper.

Models are there to play a game with they are not high art they are toy soldiers really overpriced toy soldiers but nothing more.

You do realise you're arguing with Ned Flanders? That formatting thing is his diddly.

@hobojesus: painting knows no distinction between a gamer or collector...
cool 28mm scale models know no distinction between a gamer and a collector...
28mm models are toy soldiers, sure, but they can be high art if you approach them that way, or they can be seen as simple tokens...
the choice is yours...

my choice is to take those toy soldiers, and paint them to the best of my ability, so it is worth a few bucks extra to have the canvas i want to work on...
i can enjoy all the other companies' toy soldiers, too...
i don't have an axe to grind with anyone

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
@hobojesus: painting knows no distinction between a gamer or collector...
cool 28mm scale models know no distinction between a gamer and a collector...
28mm models are toy soldiers, sure, but they can be high art if you approach them that way, or they can be seen as simple tokens...
the choice is yours...

my choice is to take those toy soldiers, and paint them to the best of my ability, so it is worth a few bucks extra to have the canvas i want to work on...
i can enjoy all the other companies' toy soldiers, too...
i don't have an axe to grind with anyone

cheers
jah

We know Jah, you say it every time, but the point is that you are an exception to the rule, Most people buy these models to play with in the game, so if they need more than a few boxes those few quid that don't bother you, is another box that a gamer can't buy.
You know there is a middle-ground between putting a manufacturer on a pedestal or using coins as proxies right?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
@hobojesus: painting knows no distinction between a gamer or collector...
cool 28mm scale models know no distinction between a gamer and a collector...
28mm models are toy soldiers, sure, but they can be high art if you approach them that way, or they can be seen as simple tokens...
the choice is yours...

my choice is to take those toy soldiers, and paint them to the best of my ability, so it is worth a few bucks extra to have the canvas i want to work on...
i can enjoy all the other companies' toy soldiers, too...
i don't have an axe to grind with anyone

cheers
jah

We know Jah, you say it every time, but the point is that you are an exception to the rule, Most people buy these models to play with in the game, so if they need more than a few boxes those few quid that don't bother you, is another box that a gamer can't buy.
You know there is a middle-ground between putting a manufacturer on a pedestal or using coins as proxies right?

I don't think jah is an exception, there are people that share a similar point of view in most hobbies, and given a large portion of this hobby is collecting and painting for display, can't say I'd be surprised to find it's not a minority.
I think GWs mistake is that for too long they focused on that one part of the audience and it's finally bit them on the arse. Pricing of the chaos releases though shows they haven't learned their lesson.

He's of the "don't care, got mine" hobbyist variety. If price doesn't matter to him, then why would it matter to anyone?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He's of the "don't care, got mine" hobbyist variety. If price doesn't matter to him, then why would it matter to anyone?

And to me, that's cool.

Problem is, at that price point (rubrics, ahriman) they could well not be there at all, since the cash I would need to fork out to get a fleshed out 1ksons sample is ridiculous.
I'm not going to buy a kit, paint it up and be done with it, I'm going to put them into an army on the tabletop.

Joyboozer wrote:

I don't think jah is an exception, there are people that share a similar point of view in most hobbies, and given a large portion of this hobby is collecting and painting for display, can't say I'd be surprised to find it's not a minority.
I think GWs mistake is that for too long they focused on that one part of the audience and it's finally bit them on the arse. Pricing of the chaos releases though shows they haven't learned their lesson.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's no interest in gaming itself and seems to have ample money for it.
I'm not convinced that there are many pure painters who are GW customers - most of them at least seem to work around the idea of a playable army even if it's never fielded.

 Easy E wrote:
To the OP- I don't know if they are getting better or not.

However, with the release of Blood Bowl GW has found a way to get my money for the first time since..... 6th edition 40k?

Not sure about Blood Bowl. After all, its only a specialist game.

There will be some initial buys but certainly not in a long run since you just need the starter box and then you're set.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
To the OP- I don't know if they are getting better or not.

However, with the release of Blood Bowl GW has found a way to get my money for the first time since..... 6th edition 40k?

Not sure about Blood Bowl. After all, its only a specialist game.

There will be some initial buys but certainly not in a long run since you just need the starter box and then you're set.

Ideally, starter box + 2 orc blitzers + 2 black orcs + 2 human blitzers. The skaven box is missing 2 gutter runners to get to the required 4.

Though, from the rumours it seems that every other new kit will be forgeworld resin, and looking at the prices + shipping for the FW LotR dwarves as comparison, they will not get any more money from me.
A shame, since wood elves would work out of the box (linemen, thrower/catcher/wardancer)

Usual GW shenanigans

Grimdark wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
To the OP- I don't know if they are getting better or not.

However, with the release of Blood Bowl GW has found a way to get my money for the first time since..... 6th edition 40k?

Not sure about Blood Bowl. After all, its only a specialist game.

There will be some initial buys but certainly not in a long run since you just need the starter box and then you're set.

Ideally, starter box + 2 orc blitzers + 2 black orcs + 2 human blitzers. The skaven box is missing 2 gutter runners to get to the required 4.

Though, from the rumours it seems that every other new kit will be forgeworld resin, and looking at the prices + shipping for the FW LotR dwarves as comparison, they will not get any more money from me.
A shame, since wood elves would work out of the box (linemen, thrower/catcher/wardancer)

Usual GW shenanigans

So let me see if I got it right: they relaunched it but they keep using their exploitative tactics, while like other 10 companies produce cheaper and compatible miniatures for fantasy football, and maybe less overdesigned.

Oh this is going to work so well for GW....

GW really changed! Complete new direction [insert here Roundtree meme]!

 TheWaaaghPath wrote:
Personally, I'm really enjoying my 40k gaming right now.

I do have some gripes:

Orks feeling unfluffy and too underpowered to be fun (and how on earth can Flash Gitz not have 'eavy armour?)

Forgeworld not releasing rules updates for their IA books. Those things are beautiful but cost a lot, so I feel the least they could do is keep them up to date with Errata and FAQ releases. Especially IA8 (although don't take stuff out FW!)

Forgeworld discontinuing support for the Badab War, and most of all not at least offering limited runs of transfer sheets etc. I'd give a kidney for a Carcharodons transfer sheet.

Some armies being neglected. For me it's my Grey Knights and Orks, while my Eldar and Necrons can feel too powerful to be fun. The rules call for responsible gaming, and I'm lucky to play with a great group of lads, but even so the balance issues are real and problematic.

I wish GW and FW would understand that just because something has slow sales it doesn't mean they ought to get rid of it. If we look at the Carcharodon example again, I might buy 1 transfer sheet, but then spend several hundred pounds on models. Without that transfer sheet I just won't bother.

It's the same with the feeling the game creates inside my head, and I feel this is true for many others also. I liken it to a lottery ticket. That ticket allows you to spend the weekend dreaming about your new life, escaping from reality.

Well 40k absolutely does and should do that. But the universe must feel varied. They might sell only 1 Ork army to every 5 Space Marine armies, but that Ork army is crucial in allowing those Space Marine players to dream about coming up against different and varied foes, to play out scenarios in their head. I'd like them to do more to support the less popular elements - not to even try to make them popular, but to understand that they play a crucial role in the whole.

All that said, I feel GW have really improved, and I'm getting a good vibe from them. I'm actually ok with 7th. I think cover and close combat need reworks, but I am alright with the rules bloat really, it doesn't bother me too much.

So I'm supportive of the changes they've made and are making, and I feel like they're going in the right direction, but there is still certainly work to do.

Very well put and it is also how I feel about the hobby currently with the struggles to play the bottom tier armies like Orks and Grey Knights while also the frustration of having to hold back a lot with Tau purely because GW is notoriously bad at game balance. Very good point about faction diversity as the game (and fluff) would be extremely boring if it was just Spess Mahreens vs Different Spess Mahreens every game. Love the game and its fun but it could be so much better if more polish and concern was placed on catering to diverse play experiences and also managing imbalance better (with the internet and all their supplement releases, its disappointing that they don't attempt to patch game balance at all).

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Grimdark wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
To the OP- I don't know if they are getting better or not.

However, with the release of Blood Bowl GW has found a way to get my money for the first time since..... 6th edition 40k?

Not sure about Blood Bowl. After all, its only a specialist game.

There will be some initial buys but certainly not in a long run since you just need the starter box and then you're set.

Ideally, starter box + 2 orc blitzers + 2 black orcs + 2 human blitzers. The skaven box is missing 2 gutter runners to get to the required 4.

Though, from the rumours it seems that every other new kit will be forgeworld resin, and looking at the prices + shipping for the FW LotR dwarves as comparison, they will not get any more money from me.
A shame, since wood elves would work out of the box (linemen, thrower/catcher/wardancer)

Usual GW shenanigans

So let me see if I got it right: they relaunched it but they keep using their exploitative tactics, while like other 10 companies produce cheaper and compatible miniatures for fantasy football, and maybe less overdesigned.

Oh this is going to work so well for GW....

GW really changed! Complete new direction [insert here Roundtree meme]!

Strange that GW will let FW produce upcoming teams. How about upgrades of the plastic teams they produce right now?
Its totally fine for me. I'll consider other companies producing similar football miniatures.

Lolf, guess what: I'm neither. I'm just tired of people who go around bashin NON-stop things and find your attitude in general most displeasing and TFG-tier when it comes to speaking to people you don't even know and don't agree with you (not me, just other cases I've seen) and comes across as a very self-entitled sense of superiority.

Could you clarify exactly how much complaining about GW's flaws is considered acceptable before it is "TFG-tier"? And is the quota measured by total complaints, complaints per day, or the ratio of complaints to non-complaint posts?