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Are there any? And I mean actual Space Marines, not just the Bolter B****es Sisters of Battle.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Next topic

Ugh. No.

And someone has an issue with Sisters?

I don't have any issues with the Sisters of Battle. I think they're pretty cool... And I also like alliteration.

But why aren't their female space marines? I mean, I get that the whole process of becoming a marine could easily always result in a masculine form, but are no marines drawn from the female population?

Because being written in the 80s only men could be cool space action movie types?

Of course there's always the lost legions for people who really want something different.

I can tell this thread is going to be full of productivity and level headed conversations.

 ScarletRose wrote:
Because being written in the 80s only men could be cool space action movie types?

Of course there's always the lost legions for people who really want something different.

Pretty much, but im very against changing things for changes sake, we are getting sisters which im totally fine with, but i just dont wanna see a female space marine for a few reasons

1) because it has always been writen that only men are Astarte, and i really dislike the idea of change for changes sake to lore. With out lore or preservation of lore, we dont really have anything.

2) Even if they work females space marines in, its going to end up getting so ham fisted into the setting that its going to be cringe worthy material.

3) Also, you would never be able to tell they are female unless you add boobs to the model, which at that point you get down to a weird paradox argument about wanting female models, but the only way to show they are female is by putting boobs on the armor, then you say well thats just objectification if you put boobs on, but then you have no way of telling they are female ect ect ect, it gets into a really nasty argument really fast.

Either way,

Sisters-YAY!
Female space marines- Nay

The future state for this thread- Ugh.

Abandon all hope ye who post beyond this one, for only death and torture shall await you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't have any issues with the Sisters of Battle. I think they're pretty cool... And I also like alliteration.

But why aren't their female space marines? I mean, I get that the whole process of becoming a marine could easily always result in a masculine form, but are no marines drawn from the female population?

The lore answer is the process for space marines was designed around the male body, and physique. The emperor based his primarchs off of him, a male, who based the space marines off the primarchs also men.

In all the books it even goes on about how brutal and trying the process is and few survive.

My personal head canon for the reasoning is to prevent space marines from breeding. If you have a female and male space marine, and by the will of the Chaos gods, they become fertile, and produce space marine children, whats to stop the space marnies from realizing they dont need the rest of humanity, because they can create perfect humans naturally. Not having female space marines is there to prevent that from happening, its to insure that the space marines are there to protect and forge a path for humanity, not usurp it. That my head cannon to it at least.

Geez, you can't go to a single 40K lore-related board without a topic like this being on the front page, can you?

3) Also, you would never be able to tell they are female unless you add boobs to the model, which at that point you get down to a weird paradox argument about wanting female models, but the only way to show they are female is by putting boobs on the armor, then you say well thats just objectification if you put boobs on, but then you have no way of telling they are female ect ect ect, it gets into a really nasty argument really fast.

I hate to confess my heresy (at least without pics yet) but I've found Statuesque Miniatures' female heads fit nicely with marine bodies. I also use a pin and a small green stuff spacer to raise their torso off the legs slightly, making them taller with a slightly more defined waist.

My personal head canon for the reasoning is to prevent space marines from breeding. If you have a female and male space marine, and by the will of the Chaos gods, they become fertile, and produce space marine children, whats to stop the space marnies from realizing they dont need the rest of humanity, because they can create perfect humans naturally. Not having female space marines is there to prevent that from happening, its to insure that the space marines are there to protect and forge a path for humanity, not usurp it.

To me this makes the most sense. Emps made it clear at the outset the Crusade and everything he did was about humanity and make humans the best species possible. So he'd be very wary of any course of action that could result in baseline humans being usurped by his own creations.

It's a conceit of the setting, Space Marines are all male. The in-universe explanation for this is some pseudo-science mumbo jumbo about the process being matched only to the male gene-type... but, of course, this was written before we knew as much about the human genome as we do now.

The Emperor is male. Using his genetics he created the Primarchs.
Who were male because they were made from male genetic material.
He then took the genetics of the Primarchs and made the Space Marines.
Who are male because they were made from male genetic material.

Also about Space Marine children, because of the nature of the process of becoming an Astartes (Implanting everything into a mortal), would they not produce mortal offspring if they were fertile? Last I checked sex cells weren't touched by the Astartes physiology.

Does it matter? Can't we just leave it as it is? Basic genetics show that men are stronger in general , so therefore the emperor and primarchs would want the strongest and fastest stock available ala your alpha males .

And before someone plays the the chauvinistic card I am only talking physical characteristics not mental or anything else and welcome female models in 40k. Plus are they not all monks which again are traditionally male.

HA!! This thread again.. OP..do a search on "female spacemarines" to have all your questions answered ad nauseum...and answers to some questions you never thought to ask.

Only in the eye of terror this would be possible! Heresy for contemplating this, stay where you are a purification squad has been directed to you to burn out these heretical thoughts!

There were actually one or two GW female space marines back in Rogue Trader too...

Maybe the Dark Gods of Dakka should create a seperate forum category for this question. I've only been on here a few months and I've already seen it over a dozen times.

Here's my justification: The gene-seed process is not well known. Apothecaries are poking around with 10,000 year old genes created by the emperor trying to make them work, its quite possible that there are some on this website who know more about it than they do. Add the fact that innovation is heresy to this mix, and the example of the 21st founding for when poeple try and tamper with gene-seed.
To top it off, remember that astartes usually recruit from death worlds, and they have a success rate of 1/100. Why would you add a secondary group (females) to our primary group, when most of the females would be weaker than the males (cold biology). We're talking running though another what 1,000 of more women to get a single space marine? That is a criminal waste of the emperors currency.

To finish, there are reasons why female SM's don't work. They may be crap, outdated, and possibly a little sexist, but they are there. I don't ever see people giving reasons why having female SM's would help (In a fluff perspective).

Mudrat wrote:
I don't ever see people giving reasons why having female SM's would help (In a fluff perspective).

From a fluff perspective the only thing a candidate really needs to become a marine is compatibility with the geneseed. If he wasn't the strongest or toughest on his world the process will make him that. If he wasn't smart or quickthinking the process will take care of that too.

Ofc, if everyone still had the knowledge to screen candidates for compatibility they could pick what they need without killing off half the 12-year old boys on the planet. So in a dark future where Chapters recruit based on unnecessary tests and rituals having access to the second half of the population would be a massive advantage.

Agiel wrote:
Geez, you can't go to a single 40K lore-related board without a topic like this being on the front page, can you?

Space marines aren't actualy genetically modified as that would be considered mutilation of the holy human form. They are chimeras, meaning that they are implanted with extra organs and given all kinds of chemicals to accept them, but if a marine was to have children(if that is even possible, GW never realy touched upon the matter), his children would be just regular humans.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Are there any? And I mean actual Space Marines, not just the Bolter B****es Sisters of Battle.

This topic has been exhaustively discussed over the years, usually with nasty digressions into the politics of gender. According to the fluff since basically forever, the process of creating space marines will only work with male candidates, and the lore has only male space marines, in both 30k and 40k.

Obviously, it's a big galaxy, and stranger things have happened, but I should warn you that "female space marines" have become a bit of a running joke in the community.

I've always imagined it has something to do with chromosomes.

Which could mean that is referred to as the "gene seed" in the fluff, in part refers to a tailored Y-chromosome, which then somehow replaces original Y-chromosomes carried by the Marines. Having received the chapter Y-chromosome, the Space Marine becomes the son of the primarch in a very real sense of the word (and grandsons of the Emperor).

This would explain why you can't have women Space Marines, because they can't carry a Y-chromosome. Or maybe the process would turn anyone into men! So then it doesn't matter which sex you started out with!

 Zingraff wrote:
I've always imagined it has something to do with chromosomes.

Which could mean that is referred to as the "gene seed" in the fluff, in part refers to a tailored Y-chromosome, which then somehow replaces original Y-chromosomes carried by the Marines. Having received the chapter Y-chromosome, the Space Marine becomes the son of the primarch in a very real sense of the word (and grandsons of the Emperor).

This would explain why you can't have women Space Marines, because they can't carry a Y-chromosome. Or maybe the process would turn anyone into men! So then it doesn't matter which sex you started out with!

This is the explanation I like the most. It just seems a bit silly to me that you would ditch half the potential candidates to be Space Marines. But if the process makes a uniformly male form, that makes sense.

Could we make a list of threads like:

Why no female space marines?
Why do people complain about GW?
Dear God prices have skyrocketed!! (Oh, I just stumbled onto GW Au)

 Zingraff wrote:
I've always imagined it has something to do with chromosomes.

Which could mean that is referred to as the "gene seed" in the fluff, in part refers to a tailored Y-chromosome, which then somehow replaces original Y-chromosomes carried by the Marines. Having received the chapter Y-chromosome, the Space Marine becomes the son of the primarch in a very real sense of the word (and grandsons of the Emperor).

This would explain why you can't have women Space Marines, because they can't carry a Y-chromosome. Or maybe the process would turn anyone into men! So then it doesn't matter which sex you started out with!

I think this is by far the best answer. Gene-seed requires Y-chromosome. Done

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Could we make a list of threads like:

Why no female space marines?
Why do people complain about GW?
Dear God prices have skyrocketed!! (Oh, I just stumbled onto GW Au)

Space Marines vs Spartans (Halo)
40k vs Star Wars

The list can keep going on as well.

 n0t_u wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Could we make a list of threads like:

Why no female space marines?
Why do people complain about GW?
Dear God prices have skyrocketed!! (Oh, I just stumbled onto GW Au)

Space Marines vs Spartans (Halo)
40k vs Star Wars

The list can keep going on as well.

Hello darkness my old friend.

Generally speaking, no. The process of creating a space marine requires certain growth hormones to all ready be present in the human subject. And the muscle growth is accelerated, not created from nothing. If the body isn't all ready built like a brick house, the muscle growth either halts or if the frame isn't strong enough, rips the person apart. And the process turns you sterile and all together -not- human to begin with so...not really sure you'd be male or female any way.

Last but not least...you wouldn't be able to tell. Armor isn't meant to show off the gender of the person. It's meant to protect you. Which means, no space marines with booby power armor.

With all that said...it's your 40K. Do with it what you will.

Sisters of battle have ernough boob plate to make up for the lack.

And this topic... Thous shall never thich be banished from background lol

 Zingraff wrote:
I've always imagined it has something to do with chromosomes.

Which could mean that is referred to as the "gene seed" in the fluff, in part refers to a tailored Y-chromosome, [snip] So then it doesn't matter which sex you started out with!

This is my fav headcanon on the subject.

Further, it is because the emperor was misogynist and/or homosexual, so he wanted a boys only-club for his bestestest buddies to be all macho and brotherhoody. So he intentionally designed the geneseeds to make sure all Astartes grew up to be Super Manly Men (tm). Because honestly, look at the (admittedly rather few) official illustrations of marines without their armor. Tom of Finland could have done that character design!

Because the Empruh was all like

 Aben Zin wrote:
Because the Empruh was all like

Spoiler:

I do like that line of reasoning. Always wondered why a super-powerful human who claimed to be obsessed with humanity as a whole seemed to interact with few females and have few females amongs his known or visible inner circle or command structure.

The genetics would require an actual trained biologist, chemical expert and genetic engineer to discuss meaningfully and depends on conceits of the setting which can just as easily be washed either way considering anything in 40k can if need be have an explanation simply in 'sufficiently advanced technology' or 'psyker mumbo-jumbo' so I'll not actually comment on them.

I don't get the argument of 'but you wouldn't be able to tell' at all though. I mean...is that even an argument against not having female space marines or is it just a pointless blank statement?

If Space Marines were a mix-gendered group you wouldn't be able to tell which one's were female yes...but you wouldn't be able to tell which one's were male either. So what would it matter? Why not produce female space marines just because 'you wouldn't know which ones were male or female'? The Tau already are in a situation where any of them in armour or battlesuits could be male or female 'you wouldn't know' but what does that matter? Just imagine they are what you want them to be or don't care, why should this in anyway be an argument against their being female ones?

Besides you'd presumably have the special characters and leaders come with helmet-less options, like now, so that's how you'd indicate female ones if it was important to you too 'know the difference' (although I still don't see why it is, playing Tau or Eldar are perfectly fine even though you don't necessarily know which one's are male or female all the time).

I now have a hilarious image of a Craftworld Eldar player freaking out and dropping the army after reading their are 'male' Banshees but he doesn't know how to tell which ones of his miniatures are or are not males.

That one argument doesn't make sense to me. Personally, as a girl, I really dislike boobplate (unless its to show off on purpose like a Dark Eldar would) and wish Sisters came without boobplates but proper armour chestplates.

Is it just me ot should any thread containing the words "female" "space" and "marine" being used consecutively should just be locked becuase they all end in the same way.