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Even though most (pretty much everyone) utterly loathes the Star Wars prequels, I can't say I didn't find a certain part of it cool. The battle droids are really awesome to me, and I love all their ships and such; therefore, I was wondering if any C.I.S vessels will ever be added to X-Wing (Or Armada...I haven't played either or know much about either)? I hardly know anything about X-wing or armada and if the droids are added in I'd certain give the game a shot, seeing how much I love the droids.

Do any of you object to this seeing you hate for the prequels? Do you think FF would ever add a Droids line? Comment please, I'd like to get a general consensus!!

My credits are on "No". We have a ship from the Prequels (The ARC-170), and it has been included in a pre-existing faction (Rebels).

FFG also seems to be struggling to support the Third faction that they have already (Scum), both design and gameplay-wise. Therefore I do not see them adding in another faction (especially one with even more tightly closed design space).

Third, C.I.S. vehicles don't make a lot of sense in the setting (which is mostly civil war/TFA). All their vehicles were retired post clone wars, and, unlike the ARC, they are not going to be salvaged, as they don't have pilots. In contrast, one can explain why Rebel Alliance forces are fighting the First Order (Military surplus, etc.).

I think it's fairly unlikely as the CIS is a little too far back in the timeline, and after the incident on Mustapha aren't really a 'faction' anymore, we might get the odd ship as part of the Scum faction if any remaining parts pop up in Rebels but that'll likely be one or two ships at best

Agreed - most of the CIS military assets would have been seized by the Empire, while the the non-droid personnel would have either been arrested, struck out on their own as mercs (Scum) or even joined the Rebellion. Aftet all, the separatists were already rebelling against a corrupt and unfair system. The CIS happened later, and anyone willing to pick up a blaster and fight against the Republic could be a valuable 'veteran' to be recruited by the Rebellion at a time when the veterans who fought *for* the Republic were reaching their very deliberate expiry date.

So while we could conceivably see something like the Cloakshape fighters in Scum, the only way we would see a large scale representation of the CIS is if FFG ever did a Clone Wars era set. Unfortunately this is highly unlikely to happen.

i reckon there is a chance that they might appear. the droids of the CIS were still used after the clone wars. In some of the comics Vader even commands some iirc. i would actually like to see the buzz droids, they could brign a cool little mechanic to the game.

oh and i actually don't mind the prequels. admittedly they could have been better. but i thoroughly enjoyed the clone wars.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Third, C.I.S. vehicles don't make a lot of sense in the setting (which is mostly civil war/TFA). All their vehicles were retired post clone wars, and, unlike the ARC, they are not going to be salvaged, as they don't have pilots. In contrast, one can explain why Rebel Alliance forces are fighting the First Order (Military surplus, etc.).

Uhhh... False. The vessels were NOT retired post Clone wars, as many of the CIS were just trade ships with more guns and they still used those ships (Corporate Sector, Separatist Holdouts). I don't really see the argument in the "It doesn't make sense" camp. Nor does rebels fighting rebels with both sides having a Han Solo or Luke Skywalker, or an Empire v. Empire battle *shrug*. None of yer battles are canon in any way, and treating them as such is just kinda pretentious as it denies entire ship lines and cool new factions (Old republic heed my call.)

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
I think it's fairly unlikely as the CIS is a little too far back in the timeline, and after the incident on Mustapha aren't really a 'faction' anymore, we might get the odd ship as part of the Scum faction if any remaining parts pop up in Rebels but that'll likely be one or two ships at best

The CIS was still certainly a faction post-Mustafar seeing the Separatist Holdouts the empire had to stomp out with their shiny new weaponry. I'd hope they make a CIS faction with a Republic Faction if it ever comes to light.

Empire vs. Empire makes sense in the aftermath of the Battle of Endor as warlordism was totally a thing. And I think the "Legends" storyline that was, I think, Legacy of the Force begins with a Civil War part between the Galactic Alliance and the Correlian system fighting each other, they would have used essentially the same equipment. (No, do not mention that abomination that was the Aleph starfighter.)

I don't know... I feel like using the argument "Empire vs Empire doesn't make sense so allow CIS" isn't really a fair point to try and push. FFG designed a Galactic Civil War era game, which now has some new stuff in it. It isn't their fault if players start civil wars. It is like Lord of the Rings and having players make Rohan fight Gondor. It isn't anyone's fault that the players collected those factions.... I get that the argument is a counter-point to "CIS is not canonical", but FFG designed for a specific era.

It seems like this era and design space is composed of the majority's image of the Galactic Civil War, both canon and expanded. They are purposefully leaving out prequel influenced stuff, except Shara's ARC-170, to help them capture the feel of the original trilogy. Though, I cannot really speak for FFG at all so this is all bs.

I feel like Arc-170 and Ventress might be FFG probing the audience to see how they react to Clone Wars stuff.

I remember hearing that Disney does not have full rights to the prequels until 2020. And they have a strict policy of not promoting things they do not own 100% off.

Look at how they sidelined the Fantastic Four and X-Men in comics.

So my guess is little to no prequel stuff for the next 4 years and then a huge push on them. Because Disney also knows the power of bringing back 'classics'.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I remember hearing that Disney does not have full rights to the prequels until 2020. And they have a strict policy of not promoting things they do not own 100% off.

Look at how they sidelined the Fantastic Four and X-Men in comics.

So my guess is little to no prequel stuff for the next 4 years and then a huge push on them. Because Disney also knows the power of bringing back 'classics'.

That makes...so much sense it actually hurts. I'd hate to wait 4 years for something though, when most people will have further moved on from the prequels (plus maybe X-wing'n'Armada won't be a thing). But I get the rights thing, Disney can't hand over the rights to something they don't fully have.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Empire vs. Empire makes sense in the aftermath of the Battle of Endor as warlordism was totally a thing. And I think the "Legends" storyline that was, I think, Legacy of the Force begins with a Civil War part between the Galactic Alliance and the Correlian system fighting each other, they would have used essentially the same equipment. (No, do not mention that abomination that was the Aleph starfighter.)

I failed to take into account the various warlord factions of the Empire which renders my Imp v Imp point a little more then mute. However, I hope you still understand where I'm coming from even if my analogy fell apart.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
I don't know... I feel like using the argument "Empire vs Empire doesn't make sense so allow CIS" isn't really a fair point to try and push. FFG designed a Galactic Civil War era game, which now has some new stuff in it. It isn't their fault if players start civil wars. It is like Lord of the Rings and having players make Rohan fight Gondor. It isn't anyone's fault that the players collected those factions.... I get that the argument is a counter-point to "CIS is not canonical", but FFG designed for a specific era.

I'm nearly 100% sure you over simplified the point of what I said. I was merely responding to the (Apparently) common claim that the CIS wouldn't make canonical sense in a GCW setting (which it does see: Seperatist Holdouts), and the Imp v Imp point + The Dual Han Solos further proves that most of the battles don't make much sense in a Star wars universe. Though I have to leave you some leeway, seeing how there was Imperial v. Imperial battles post-Endor.

If I understand correctly it's not that they don't have the rights to prequel toys etc, it's that Fox still has distribution rights to the films and Disney does not want to promote films someone else distributes.

K_K has it.

Fox still has the distribution rights to eps1-6 until 2020.
It will retain ep4 rights in perpetuity, though (or until they wish to relinquish them).

That said, there was no "disney" logo in the credits for ep7 (just as there aren't any in the marvel movies). Da maus haus may be the parent company, but they let the kids run themselves.

It's not Han vs. Han, it's Han vs. his evil twin brother, Hans. Which is which is up to you to decide.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
It's not Han vs. Han, it's Han vs. his evil twin brother, Hans. Which is which is up to you to decide.

Finally, the Star Wars/Die Hard crossover I have been waiting for for years!

I could really see using the ARC-170 as a way to test the waters of possibly adding in clone wars era stuff, and if it is, it's not a bad way of doing it, I really like the ARC. I'd like to see a Delta Class fighter if they're going to add in a couple of clone war ships from here on out, even if it's not going to be its own thing.

But how do you make it sufficiently different within the design space without it becoming another version of X?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
But how do you make it sufficiently different within the design space without it becoming another version of X?

This is the catch- it is easy to add new tech, as you simply give it better stats, and fancy new abilities, and price it above its predecessor. However, older stuff is constrained by the need for it to make sense against other ships from similar or newer eras. Take, for example, the V-wing. It fulfills the same roll as the TIE Fighter, being a small, agile ship. Now, we can make the case that it should be better than the TIE, because the TIE was intended to be a cheap, disposable fighter. However, if we bump it up a point or two (lets say is ends up with a shield, droid, slightly different dial, and maybe boost instead of barrel roll). It now ends up in the same 14-16pt "Light Fighter" niche occupied by the TIE Advanced Prototype, Scyk, TIE/fo, and A-wing. It also competes with the very effective Black Squadron Pilot with Crack shot. It would not fit with the empire (Who already have plenty of choices). It could find a place in Scum, purely because of how bad the Scyk is, but it competes with Z-95's with Illicits. The only place that it could find a niche would be with a Republic faction, which requires FFG to make a whole new faction. N-1 Naboo Starfighters and Jedi Starfighters have the same problem.

I agree completely. If Scum had a hard time at first, and even then it borrowed from the other two factions, imagine how hard an entirely new faction will struggle until it has a slew of ships available.

And if Empire vs. Empire was immersion-breaking for some, imagine if they let Empire and Republic forces cross-borrow...it's going to be even worse than those who don't like mixing First Order and Empire.

I just would really like to see the clone wars era ships in the game. We got the ARC, I'm hoping one day well see the ETA starfighters, V-19 torrents and such - in an official capacity. I don't see a problem in making a new faction or having overlaps - people like me will collect the ships for the look and design, even if they mostly mirror a ship that already exists.

CIS, I'm not really interested, but I don't much care for the Scum faction either so I don't have to collect it.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I agree completely. If Scum had a hard time at first, and even then it borrowed from the other two factions, imagine how hard an entirely new faction will struggle until it has a slew of ships available.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Maybe, instead of trying to put a new faction into the game, they might decide to include a few of the more interesting ships in already existing factions, like what they did with the ARC, so instead of making a CIS faction, they might include a couple of ships into the Scum faction for example, possibly tossing in stuff like the Delta Class fighter or other republic ships into the Rebel faction, it might be a little weird to some people, but it could at the very least be interesting.

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I agree completely. If Scum had a hard time at first, and even then it borrowed from the other two factions, imagine how hard an entirely new faction will struggle until it has a slew of ships available.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Maybe, instead of trying to put a new faction into the game, they might decide to include a few of the more interesting ships in already existing factions, like what they did with the ARC, so instead of making a CIS faction, they might include a couple of ships into the Scum faction for example, possibly tossing in stuff like the Delta Class fighter or other republic ships into the Rebel faction, it might be a little weird to some people, but it could at the very least be interesting.

Problem is, the most iconic CIS fighters are the droid ones, which torpedo the idea of it being an aces personal ship like the ARC.

Republic ships might make sense as part of the scum and villainy faction.

A lot of surplus stuff picked up legitimately or not as the Empire changed over to TIEs etc.

Like WWI planes ending up as barnstormers and crop dusters in the 20s and 30s.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
K_K has it.

Fox still has the distribution rights to eps1-6 until 2020.
It will retain ep4 rights in perpetuity, though (or until they wish to relinquish them).

That said, there was no "disney" logo in the credits for ep7 (just as there aren't any in the marvel movies). Da maus haus may be the parent company, but they let the kids run themselves.

But there are Disney Logos on all the toys!

I'm sure Disney has a master plan that will firmly brand Star Wars, Marvel and Muppets as Disney (R) property.

Disney-We own your childhood.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I agree completely. If Scum had a hard time at first, and even then it borrowed from the other two factions, imagine how hard an entirely new faction will struggle until it has a slew of ships available.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Maybe, instead of trying to put a new faction into the game, they might decide to include a few of the more interesting ships in already existing factions, like what they did with the ARC, so instead of making a CIS faction, they might include a couple of ships into the Scum faction for example, possibly tossing in stuff like the Delta Class fighter or other republic ships into the Rebel faction, it might be a little weird to some people, but it could at the very least be interesting.

Problem is, the most iconic CIS fighters are the droid ones, which torpedo the idea of it being an aces personal ship like the ARC.

Unfortunately, yes. But, aside from adding in a whole CIS faction and actually doing a Clone Wars era, I think that that's the only way that we would see them in the game

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I agree completely. If Scum had a hard time at first, and even then it borrowed from the other two factions, imagine how hard an entirely new faction will struggle until it has a slew of ships available.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Maybe, instead of trying to put a new faction into the game, they might decide to include a few of the more interesting ships in already existing factions, like what they did with the ARC, so instead of making a CIS faction, they might include a couple of ships into the Scum faction for example, possibly tossing in stuff like the Delta Class fighter or other republic ships into the Rebel faction, it might be a little weird to some people, but it could at the very least be interesting.

Problem is, the most iconic CIS fighters are the droid ones, which torpedo the idea of it being an aces personal ship like the ARC.

Nah, I think people would accept CIS droid aces; they'd be in the same realm of the likes of Scar off Battlestar Galactica.

To be honest, the most obvious way to make prequel era ships distinct from GCW ships is the addition of a new slot (maybe a cannon variant) which offers slightly weaker cannons compared to the regular ones, but with an extra built-in effect.. plus an extra rule for the pilot-less CIS droid ships (perhaps give them all the effect of Swarm Tactics, but to ensure the highest PS is.. lets say 5). Everything else can be more or less on par with the classic ships.

After all, there is.. what, 22 years between Clone Wars and A New Hope, and 30 odd years between RotJ and TFA.. and the T-70 isn't exactly rocking 4/4/4/4 stats. Instead, both the TFA core ships have gained +1 shield and +1 action to account for 30 years time difference.. so Clone Wars era ships aren't exactly going to be bi-planes when compared with the original X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

In fact, I don't think you could even able to draw such comparisons if they existed; There was no X-Wing equivalent during the Clone Wars; no T-60 that had to be slightly worse than the T-65 (which in turn would end up being slightly worse than the T-70). The ARC-170 filled a role somewhere between the X-Wing and the B-Wing and should have stats to match (though I don't agree with the 2+1 approach but.. eh), while the V-19 filled a role somewhere between the X-Wing and the A-Wing. They were both the 'main' fighter in the same way the X-Wing would be later, but neither was designed to be a multi-role ship like the X-Wing so you wouldn't expect them to show up to the table with a slight variation on 3/2/3/2 Focus + TL. The Z-95s and Y-Wings of the era might as well remain identical; This is also true of the CIS ships, although it is fair to say that the humble Vulture droids and not-so-humble Tri-ighters were used in the same way as the basic Tie and Tie Advanced so it would be more reasonable to tweak the stats based on those two; However, there were plenty of manned ships in use by the CIS from the P-38, Belbullab-22 and Ginivex to the more faction-orientated ships such as the Geonosian Fighter or the god-awful Mankvim.. and don't forget the Sheathipede (The.. ChancellorMobile?)

I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the First Order ships out of the Empire's availability when they get more ships, and changed the game to 5 factions. Great way to get people to buy into a new faction.

If we do see more, I could see them being added to Scum.

With how old the ships are compared to where we currently stand in the X-Wing timeline, Scum seems like the best option. Old ships that are kitted out to be tricky, pack a bigger punch, and all around more devious than originally designed.

 Siygess wrote:

After all, there is.. what, 22 years between Clone Wars and A New Hope, and 30 odd years between RotJ and TFA.. and the T-70 isn't exactly rocking 4/4/4/4 stats. Instead, both the TFA core ships have gained +1 shield and +1 action to account for 30 years time difference.. so Clone Wars era ships aren't exactly going to be bi-planes when compared with the original X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

Don't forget the Tech slot, representing some Advanced Avionics.

In fact, I don't think you could even able to draw such comparisons if they existed; There was no X-Wing equivalent during the Clone Wars; no T-60 that had to be slightly worse than the T-65 (which in turn would end up being slightly worse than the T-70). The ARC-170 filled a role somewhere between the X-Wing and the B-Wing and should have stats to match (though I don't agree with the 2+1 approach but.. eh), while the V-19 filled a role somewhere between the X-Wing and the A-Wing. They were both the 'main' fighter in the same way the X-Wing would be later, but neither was designed to be a multi-role ship like the X-Wing so you wouldn't expect them to show up to the table with a slight variation on 3/2/3/2 Focus + TL. The Z-95s and Y-Wings of the era might as well remain identical.

Yeah, the size of the ARC-170 makes it hard to compare to the X-wing. Is its dial worse because it is lower tech, or because it is a bigger, heavier ship? Hull and shields are also hard to compare, for the same reasons (although I would note that the ARC-170 is twice the size of an X-wing, with twice the hull... but not twice the shields). The two areas where you can see the X-wing being better are in Avionics and Firepower. The X-wing get by without a copilot, suggesting that it does something to make flying easier for the pilot. It also has better firepower (remember, it is the Alliance Overhaul that gives the ARC-170 comparable firepower). I would suggest that there was a major advancement in laser cannon technology between the prequels and the original trilogy, given that all prequel-vintage ships have only firepower 2 (Y-wing, ARC-170 and Z-95), while original trilogy ships tend to have firepower 3 (X-wing, B-wing, TIE Interceptor) unless they were deliberately saving weight and/or costs (TIE Fighter, A-wing).

Yeah you are correct about the crew - the co-pilot role was fIlled by an Astromech and of course there is no need for the third crew member since the X-Wing didn't have the tail gun. I disagree with FFG about the +1 attack dice from the retrofit since the ARC 170s two guns were heavier laser cannons than the X-Wings four (basically an unmodified 3 red dice - the same as the X-Wing - would have made more sense) however what's done is done.

Basically I don't see the X-Wing as an evolution of technology over the ARC, just a ship designed for a different purpose with more or less the same level of technology available. If the GAR's requirement for its primary fighter was to be a jack of all trades with minimal crew requirement because.. I don't know.. they were running out of clone pilots and couldn't afford to waste three on a single ship, then whatever Incom came up with would have been almost identical to the X-Wing in terms of capability and stats.

But really this is just one Star Wars fan's opinion on how things should be in light of the fact that 3000+ years of Legends exist, and that isn't necessarily going to fit with how FFG say they need to be. Ultimately if the CIS or GAR ever exist in the game I will buy them regardless of how bad they end up being

I *liked* the prequel movies, dammit!

 Siygess wrote:
Yeah you are correct about the crew - the co-pilot role was fIlled by an Astromech and of course there is no need for the third crew member since the X-Wing didn't have the tail gun. I disagree with FFG about the +1 attack dice from the retrofit since the ARC 170s two guns were heavier laser cannons than the X-Wings four (basically an unmodified 3 red dice - the same as the X-Wing - would have made more sense) however what's done is done.

I figure that it's because the X-wings guns can be zeroed on a target more effectively. The rebels refit the ARC with better guns, but they still don't aim well.

 Siygess wrote:


I *liked* the prequel movies, dammit!

A generational thing, I believe.