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Can you play recently fallen (to Chaos) Space Marines with the Space Marine Codex?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Basically as the title asks, I want to play a renegade space marine squad that has just recently started falling to Chaos. Is it possible to use the regular Space Marine Codex?
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Schrott

Yes, you can do that.

Spikes, and all that is fine. Just stick to the SM rules and make sure its identifiable.

Regiment: 91st Schrott Experimental Regiment
Regiment Planet: Schrott
Specialization: Salvaged, Heavily Modified, and/or Experimental Mechanized Units.
"SIR! Are you sure this will work!?"
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Made in ca
Grumpy Longbeard





Canada

It depends on your group/opponent. Many people say no.
Other (myself included) say go for it. I would even let you take marks (possibly even daemons weapons), because the CSM codex is that bad.

One of my worst 40k experiences was against CSM, I didn't realise that they didn't have TSKNF till I swept more than 30 CSM (he had 2 squads of 20 vs daemon princes). I crushed a guy who obviously loves his army REALLY badly.

That said if you use it just to get cheese then don't expect me to play it.
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





There aren't any actual rules for doing this, you'll just be using the vanilla SM rules and saying that they follow Chaos in fluff.

Which does mean you are still following the same Alliance chart regular Space Marines do as far as allies are concerned
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Absolutely...but the models should be completely identifiable as the units they represent. Likewise for fluff and ally games it'd be silly to play them alongside genuine Imperial allies.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I actually thought about having some imperial guards fall to chaos with the space marines to act as allies if i need them. Would that work?
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

No reason you can't, just make sure you follow the allies chart and don't mix stuff (no daemon engines mixed with Libbies). Stay honest with the allies chart, and you should be fine. Heck, tons of people use the GK codex for TKsons and the SW book for World Eaters/Berzerkers. Go for it!!

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


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Made in lu
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought






Same thing would apply to imperial guard. So yes, no problem. Just make sure they look the part.

You'd essentially be playing space marines/IG with heavily converted models. Nothing wrong with that at all.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 DarkBlack wrote:
It depends on your group/opponent. Many people say no.
Other (myself included) say go for it. I would even let you take marks (possibly even daemons weapons), because the CSM codex is that bad.


Absolutely not.

If you're using CSM rules, then use CSM rules. If you're using C:SM rules, then use C:SM rules.

No mixing and matching.

Beyond that? I don't care what the fluff of your army is. I don't even necessarily care what your models look like. Just so long as I can easily identify what models correspond to what rules.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/15 04:47:14


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

As you can see, not everyone is out there for their opponent's enjoyment.

For me, I'd be fine with it, and if you wanted to mix and match (Mark of Nurgle on Centurions, for instance) I'd want it to be two things:

1) Fluffy. No Mark of Khorne on this guy, Mark of Slaanesh on that one, Nurgle on him (because it's the best!) and then Tzeentch on your Storm Shield guys... All one faction.

2) Balanced. Pay appropriate points costs for everything (probably actually a bit more expensive than CSM Codex things, since SM are so much better) and some things, like Mark of Tzeentch on a Storm Shield model, I'd just ask you don't do at all.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 JNAProductions wrote:
As you can see, not everyone is out there for their opponent's enjoyment.

For me, I'd be fine with it, and if you wanted to mix and match (Mark of Nurgle on Centurions, for instance) I'd want it to be two things:

1) Fluffy. No Mark of Khorne on this guy, Mark of Slaanesh on that one, Nurgle on him (because it's the best!) and then Tzeentch on your Storm Shield guys... All one faction.

2) Balanced. Pay appropriate points costs for everything (probably actually a bit more expensive than CSM Codex things, since SM are so much better) and some things, like Mark of Tzeentch on a Storm Shield model, I'd just ask you don't do at all.


Here's my problem with this:

That's now how the codices are written. That's not how the rules operate. If I want to have a battle company, but I specifically want my assault marines to be chaos infiltrators, can I equip them with plasma guns?

You know what's a better way to ensure that your opponent has a fun time assuming he may or may not be using an inferior codex?

Don't spam cheese.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 05:17:03


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Just talk it out with your opponent. If the OP was to play you, then of course he should pick one Codex and stick to it. But not everyone is so uptight about it-obviously there limits (again, I don't want to bother with a 2+ Invuln on Chapter Masters-that's more than a little ridiculous) but there's nothing wrong with asking "Hey, can I play recently fallen Marines? It's basically Codex Space Marines, but with a few changes."

Now, you should be ready to hear "no", but there's no harm in asking.

Edit: I do agree, it's not how the Codices are written. But we all know GW kinda sucks at rules, so I see nothing wrong with playing with some minor tweaks to them-so long as they're okayed by your opponent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 05:20:57


Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ru
Cackling Chaos Conscript





There is no cheese or point in mark of Tzeentch with storm shield, since the mark rules state it cant boost invul to value better than 3++

Also you can already get 2++ re-rollable captain, with sanctuary psychic power and catapractii terminator armor

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/15 05:34:36


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
There is no cheese or point in mark of Tzeentch with storm shield, since the mark rules state it cant boost invul to value better than 3++


Ah. I don't play Tzeentch, so I forgot that.

In that case, FREE MARK OF TZEENTCH ON ALL STORM SHIELD MODELS!

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I think maybe I didn't make my question as clear as I meant to. I meant more of the modeling and fluff of my army, not mixing codices. Like if my space marines have chaos bits but still represented weapons and things from the regular space marine codex.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

Yes. If you just want to say "my chapter recently fell to chaos in its fluff, but is mechanically a SM army in all respects," and someone refuses to play you, they're a jerk.

20000+ points
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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Then you're playing Space Marines and as long as WYSIWYG is followed enough that a Bolter doesn't magically become a Lascannon, they can look like whatever. Chosen models as a Command Squad or Honour Guard, Obliterators as Centurions, Berserkers as Vanguard Veterans without Jump Packs, or with and say they run fast, whatever. Just keep it consistent across your whole army.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Then you're playing Space Marines and as long as WYSIWYG is followed enough that a Bolter doesn't magically become a Lascannon, they can look like whatever. Chosen models as a Command Squad or Honour Guard, Obliterators as Centurions, Berserkers as Vanguard Veterans without Jump Packs, or with and say they run fast, whatever. Just keep it consistent across your whole army.

Using Obliterators as Centurions, or Berzerkers as Vanguard, or having invisible jump packs isn't following WYSIWYG. At all.


If you're going to be using to be using Chaos models which have distinct Chaos rules, you might as well be using the (a) Chaos Codex.
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

If they have recently fallen to Chaos they probably don't have any of the Chaos Toybox at their disposal yet, and would still be running with their standard armory.

Their chapter icons could possibly be changed, any Aquilas defiled and defaced, and symbols of the ruinous powers painted where they can.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
 
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