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Hey guys, I'm just curious about something and figured you guys could help me out. Recently some friends of mine took a look at some of my models and suggested I try painting on commission. I'll be the first to say I'm not the best painter but I think I'm decent, I feel like my real specialty is conversions and kit bashing. So I thought I'd post a couple pics of models and see what you guys think, would you pay for my work?

http://imgur.com/CO1o4Gg
http://imgur.com/CO1o4Gg
http://imgur.com/SZZc3ob
http://imgur.com/N2dFNKP
http://imgur.com/XO5UtlH
http://imgur.com/xHapkeD

I'm planning on buying an airbrush soon so I can start practicing with it. Ive never used one before but I feel like if I can get good with it I can significantly step up the level of my painting. Is this something I should invest in? Also any tips to improve my painting skills? Any C&C would be greatly appreciated. I want to see if this is actually something worth pursuing.

Tip one, if you want people to give up their time to help you out, make it as easy as you can for them to do it. Post actual pictures, rather than links, as it is much quicker and less time consuming to see your work.

That is meant constructively, not aggressively

Thanks, Yea I realized my mistake right after I posted. And no worries, I appreciate the tip

That stuff there is what I'd consider "coloring" like with a coloring book you see a space with lines then fill it in with a color. if someone wants their models to just be colored and pay for it, then sure that's fine but you're missing a major step in painting, especially with 3D models with shading, washes and highlights. An airbrush doesn't improve on these, and mostly helps with smooth blending.

Your work is neat, so a good place to start from. I'd expect at least shading and some basic highlighting from anything but the cheapest level commission work. Personally I'd work on that, and keep posting pics and asking for advice in the mean time.

So if you are looking for some ideas about price, take this as helpful criticism not as jabs at you.

First you have very nice metals, the weapons have a nice rust finish to them cutos to that. From the pictures I can see, you also seem to have good brush control as wel which is very nice, and your colors are nice and smooth and even.

But a few things, again these are orks so it's fine if you did this on purpose in which case ignore this point, your paints on the armor looks very gritty and almost cunky, might be to thick, that said, if you did it on purpose well done sir.

The other issue is there is no real depth in colors to the tones you are using, the flesh on things is very monotone. A shade, dry brush and highlight can go a long way.

The models here definitely in standard table top.

Normally I would charge box price for table top, which would be base, wash, dry brush highlighting and that's about it, for box price. IE Terminators at table top would be 60 starting.

For yours I would say 3/4th box price if you are not doing any shading or highlighting

Archonite wrote:
That stuff there is what I'd consider "coloring" like with a coloring book you see a space with lines then fill it in with a color. if someone wants their models to just be colored and pay for it, then sure that's fine but you're missing a major step in painting, especially with 3D models with shading, washes and highlights. An airbrush doesn't improve on these, and mostly helps with smooth blending.

Could you elaborate a little more on that? I try to use a variety of washes and layer multiple colors to get more detail but i admit I don't do much highlighting as I don't feel I'm very good at it. What would you suggest to improve the quality of my pieces? Not trying to be condescending, I'm legitimately curious on what I can do to improve my skills


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So if you are looking for some ideas about price, take this as helpful criticism not as jabs at you.

First you have very nice metals, the weapons have a nice rust finish to them cutos to that. From the pictures I can see, you also seem to have good brush control as wel which is very nice, and your colors are nice and smooth and even.

But a few things, again these are orks so it's fine if you did this on purpose in which case ignore this point, your paints on the armor looks very gritty and almost cunky, might be to thick, that said, if you did it on purpose well done sir.

The other issue is there is no real depth in colors to the tones you are using, the flesh on things is very monotone. A shade, dry brush and highlight can go a long way.

The models here definitely in standard table top.

Normally I would charge box price for table top, which would be base, wash, dry brush highlighting and that's about it, for box price. IE Terminators at table top would be 60 starting.

For yours I would say 3/4th box price if you are not doing any shading or highlighting

That's all very helpful, thank you for the critique. I actually didn't intend that look for the armor at first, i ended up painting it on a little thick but liked the look and went with it. I'll also take your advice and practice adding depth to the skin tones. Are there any specific techniques/order you use? For example when I painted those orks I did dark green, green, light green then wash.

Just from my limited experience, these would go for about 140% of the cost of a normal box of figures on eBay. I think they're clean table-top quality.

 Elbows wrote:
, these would go for about 140% of the cost of a normal box of figures on eBay.

Really? I should move to the US.
I'd say that they have been devalued for the secondary market.

For that quality I might pay £1 a model and 5 for a tank/large model assembled and painted to my spec.

 YoungSolomon wrote:

Archonite wrote:
That stuff there is what I'd consider "coloring" like with a coloring book you see a space with lines then fill it in with a color. if someone wants their models to just be colored and pay for it, then sure that's fine but you're missing a major step in painting, especially with 3D models with shading, washes and highlights. An airbrush doesn't improve on these, and mostly helps with smooth blending.

Could you elaborate a little more on that? I try to use a variety of washes and layer multiple colors to get more detail but i admit I don't do much highlighting as I don't feel I'm very good at it. What would you suggest to improve the quality of my pieces? Not trying to be condescending, I'm legitimately curious on what I can do to improve my skills


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So if you are looking for some ideas about price, take this as helpful criticism not as jabs at you.

First you have very nice metals, the weapons have a nice rust finish to them cutos to that. From the pictures I can see, you also seem to have good brush control as wel which is very nice, and your colors are nice and smooth and even.

But a few things, again these are orks so it's fine if you did this on purpose in which case ignore this point, your paints on the armor looks very gritty and almost cunky, might be to thick, that said, if you did it on purpose well done sir.

The other issue is there is no real depth in colors to the tones you are using, the flesh on things is very monotone. A shade, dry brush and highlight can go a long way.

The models here definitely in standard table top.

Normally I would charge box price for table top, which would be base, wash, dry brush highlighting and that's about it, for box price. IE Terminators at table top would be 60 starting.

For yours I would say 3/4th box price if you are not doing any shading or highlighting

That's all very helpful, thank you for the critique. I actually didn't intend that look for the armor at first, i ended up painting it on a little thick but liked the look and went with it. I'll also take your advice and practice adding depth to the skin tones. Are there any specific techniques/order you use? For example when I painted those orks I did dark green, green, light green then wash.

I don't notice too much of shades and washes in the pics. You want to greatly exaggerate shadows and highlights, especially at edges where something ends and something else begins. Example would be of your heldrake the bright green stands out, but it's the same uniform color along the whole tongue when each recessed part can be darkened then build up to the bright green.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Normally I would charge box price for table top, which would be base, wash, dry brush highlighting and that's about it, for box price. IE Terminators at table top would be 60 starting.

For yours I would say 3/4th box price if you are not doing any shading or highlighting

 Elbows wrote:
Just from my limited experience, these would go for about 140% of the cost of a normal box of figures on eBay. I think they're clean table-top quality.

You guys serious about these prices? I used to do commission stuff years ago when TT games were more popular than now and would struggle to get prices like that even on ebay for things like:



would usually get 25% of box value at best so I stopped doing it

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
, these would go for about 140% of the cost of a normal box of figures on eBay.

Really? I should move to the US.
I'd say that they have been devalued for the secondary market.

For that quality I might pay £1 a model and 5 for a tank/large model assembled and painted to my spec.

This is much more accurate of what I see. Especially when something is built and second hand, people are willing to pay something like 35% of MSRP to begin with then the paint will bring the value up if it's a model you have then sell, IE if its a $50 unit the base price people starting at will pay is like $18 second hand; would have to be a godly paint job to bring it up to $70 at 140%.

If it's their models and paying for a paint job for basic TT quality it'll be something like $2 an infantry model.

Correction...I see people asking 140% or so for stuff like that. I have no idea how successful they are. Like most, the stuff I sell when painted I struggle with.

A lot of people (myself included) don't really buy painted models and if I do, they need to be at discount because I'm going to strip them down, lol.

I would not pay for this, or think others would if it's the best quality you can offer, no.
It's clean and tidy but it's basic, and not beyond people with patience.

There are studios who offer this level (neat, no shades or highlights} as their base level. However they then offer further tiers of quality, which you aren't showing.

Neat, but if you want money. Shading, highlights. Washes can transform base colour into true 3D.

Its things like edge highlights. And lots of other details people pay for.

Archonite keep in mind once a model is painted it instantly looses its value unless it's display quality. The reason modes go for less on eBay when they are on par with a table top quality model is because you don't have any say on what it looks like.

I can charge that much for table top because I have paint it how ever you want, your lying for the options.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I would not pay for this, or think others would if it's the best quality you can offer, no.
It's clean and tidy but it's basic, and not beyond people with patience.

There are studios who offer this level (neat, no shades or highlights} as their base level. However they then offer further tiers of quality, which you aren't showing.

Thanks for the honest assesment. I guess my focus for now will be on improving the level of detail I can do. I'll keep trying different things and post updates as I go to log my progress

Honestly? No.
There needs to be shade. For example. The attack squiq is pretty much red and bone.
The heldrakes gold shows no depth or weathering to it.
Its red and blues look flat
The white on the Ork looks chalky and uneven.
getting to commission painting is alot of work

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Archonite keep in mind once a model is painted it instantly looses its value unless it's display quality. The reason modes go for less on eBay when they are on par with a table top quality model is because you don't have any say on what it looks like.

I can charge that much for table top because I have paint it how ever you want, your lying for the options.

I realize the difference between having the model to sell vs painting theirs which is why I listed both in my last post.

The method you're talking about is having someone tell you what colors and look they want and you do it, but @ double the box price just for buying model then basic coloring is extremely steep and highly unlikely.

I don't know what demographic of people you're serving who are willing to pay that. Not meant as an insult to you, but just looking @ some past posts for samples of your work, I really don't see how people will pay that.

Did a 3k point tyranid army (sample pics below) with these quick 1 color-highlight-wash base then 2nd highlight on some armor, and made around 20% of box value, which came out to several hundred dollars; no way someone would pay $2,000 for the same... right? Or am I the one being crazy and people will actually pay that much consistently?






EDIT back on topic

 YoungSolomon wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I would not pay for this, or think others would if it's the best quality you can offer, no.
It's clean and tidy but it's basic, and not beyond people with patience.

There are studios who offer this level (neat, no shades or highlights} as their base level. However they then offer further tiers of quality, which you aren't showing.

Thanks for the honest assesment. I guess my focus for now will be on improving the level of detail I can do. I'll keep trying different things and post updates as I go to log my progress

You have a really good base here with being able to color within the lines. You just need to add some depth and brightness IMO to bring out the details and darken recesses which will go a long way

Edited by RiTides - Removed pic of another's work

Archonite wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Archonite keep in mind once a model is painted it instantly looses its value unless it's display quality. The reason modes go for less on eBay when they are on par with a table top quality model is because you don't have any say on what it looks like.

I can charge that much for table top because I have paint it how ever you want, your lying for the options.

I realize the difference between having the model to sell vs painting theirs which is why I listed both in my last post.

The method you're talking about is having someone tell you what colors and look they want and you do it, but @ double the box price just for buying model then basic coloring is extremely steep and highly unlikely.

I don't know what demographic of people you're serving who are willing to pay that. Not meant as an insult to you, but just looking @ some past posts for samples of your work, I really don't see how people will pay that.

Did a 3k point tyranid army (sample pics below) with these quick 1 color-highlight-wash base then 2nd highlight on some armor, and made around 20% of box value, which came out to several hundred dollars; no way someone would pay $2,000 for the same... right? Or am I the one being crazy and people will actually pay that much consistently?






EDIT back on topic

 YoungSolomon wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I would not pay for this, or think others would if it's the best quality you can offer, no.
It's clean and tidy but it's basic, and not beyond people with patience.

There are studios who offer this level (neat, no shades or highlights} as their base level. However they then offer further tiers of quality, which you aren't showing.

Thanks for the honest assesment. I guess my focus for now will be on improving the level of detail I can do. I'll keep trying different things and post updates as I go to log my progress

You have a really good base here with being able to color within the lines. You just need to add some depth and brightness IMO to bring out the details and darken recesses which will go a long way

that was posted years back when i started my dude its honestly a vain attempt you are making

Edited by RiTides - Removed pic from quoted text


That said if you were NOT getting box price for you models there, you are WAY underselling yourself, thats well above table top standard, and is is the market of highend table top - low quality display, (low quality display is not an insult either, i base high quality display off of golden demon winners)

Thats something I would have gone with above box price for.

Quick mod note - please only post pictures of your own work, not work of others posting in the thread unless they specifically ask for it to be posted. Thanks

If you're only painting locally, ask around. Have a portfolio of models of different levels of painting available, and ask what they will pay for what level of work. If you ask someone who just wants their grey unpainted models for gaming, you're going to get a different response than someone who wants a conversion and wants something to display on his shelf.

Also consider trade instead of cash. If a customer has miniatures, boardgames, Magic cards, or other stuff you're going to spend the money on, anyway, you might get a better deal than cash, which gamers seem to never have enough of.

Also, if you play boardgames, paint up your set and see what you can get for it on BoardGameGeek. The main advantage of this is that you have only one painted set for sale, while many boardgamers play the game and may want their own painted set. Plus, you can ship the painted miniatures immediately, and not deal with fussy customers who are never satisfied with your paint job. If a customer already has the game, they send you the unpainted miniatures plus whatever payment or trade you agree upon. You both pay less shipping, since you're only shipping the miniatures, not the other components. And, of course, you can play with your mini's if nobody bites.

ced1106 wrote:
If you're only painting locally, ask around. Have a portfolio of models of different levels of painting available, and ask what they will pay for what level of work. If you ask someone who just wants their grey unpainted models for gaming, you're going to get a different response than someone who wants a conversion and wants something to display on his shelf.

Also consider trade instead of cash. If a customer has miniatures, boardgames, Magic cards, or other stuff you're going to spend the money on, anyway, you might get a better deal than cash, which gamers seem to never have enough of.

Also, if you play boardgames, paint up your set and see what you can get for it on BoardGameGeek. The main advantage of this is that you have only one painted set for sale, while many boardgamers play the game and may want their own painted set. Plus, you can ship the painted miniatures immediately, and not deal with fussy customers who are never satisfied with your paint job. If a customer already has the game, they send you the unpainted miniatures plus whatever payment or trade you agree upon. You both pay less shipping, since you're only shipping the miniatures, not the other components. And, of course, you can play with your mini's if nobody bites.

I was planning on starting locally actually, as I don't think I'd have the time to take orders online being a full time student. But after reading all your responses I think I'll take out some time to practice and improve before moving forward. I just ordered my first airbrush so I want to take some time to get proficient with it and try out some new techniques before I'll feel comfortable taking someones money.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Archonite wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Archonite keep in mind once a model is painted it instantly looses its value unless it's display quality. The reason modes go for less on eBay when they are on par with a table top quality model is because you don't have any say on what it looks like.

I can charge that much for table top because I have paint it how ever you want, your lying for the options.

I realize the difference between having the model to sell vs painting theirs which is why I listed both in my last post.

The method you're talking about is having someone tell you what colors and look they want and you do it, but @ double the box price just for buying model then basic coloring is extremely steep and highly unlikely.

I don't know what demographic of people you're serving who are willing to pay that. Not meant as an insult to you, but just looking @ some past posts for samples of your work, I really don't see how people will pay that.

Did a 3k point tyranid army (sample pics below) with these quick 1 color-highlight-wash base then 2nd highlight on some armor, and made around 20% of box value, which came out to several hundred dollars; no way someone would pay $2,000 for the same... right? Or am I the one being crazy and people will actually pay that much consistently?






EDIT back on topic

 YoungSolomon wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I would not pay for this, or think others would if it's the best quality you can offer, no.
It's clean and tidy but it's basic, and not beyond people with patience.

There are studios who offer this level (neat, no shades or highlights} as their base level. However they then offer further tiers of quality, which you aren't showing.

Thanks for the honest assesment. I guess my focus for now will be on improving the level of detail I can do. I'll keep trying different things and post updates as I go to log my progress

You have a really good base here with being able to color within the lines. You just need to add some depth and brightness IMO to bring out the details and darken recesses which will go a long way

Edited by RiTides - Removed pic of another's work

I appreciate that, thank you . You have some very high quality work there by the way! I'd like to get to that level of painting. Would you care to share any of the techniques you use for shading and highlights?

 YoungSolomon wrote:

I appreciate that, thank you . You have some very high quality work there by the way! I'd like to get to that level of painting. Would you care to share any of the techniques you use for shading and highlights?

Thanks! The main thing is practice. At the time I did those I was painting for a decade so once you have good brush control you can paint pretty quick without having to go over many mistakes. The other 2 huge things I wish I'd done and learnt much sooner:
1. Water down paints and use glazes & washes. Thinner paints lets you put on several layers without it looking thick and build up to clean highlights. Washes and glazes will make recesses look darker while you have the liquid do the work on a 3D model. where liquids will pool to the deepest areas which is mostly where you'll want darker colors anyways right? Thinned highlights look a lot better than thick ones which can appear to be a different color just drawn on with a very noticeable line. With thin highlights you can use multiple or unusual colors too

This guy took 2 evenings to do and is actually a pretty simple paint job with just a base, wash and a few thinned paint highlights of diff colors. By base I mean color everything on the model first, which is what you've done already in your pics quite well, then just need do some washes and strong highlights.

2. Use different brushes. My favorite is a chisel blender, can get small ones around 4mm width across. It lets you paint large areas very fast, the corner points can pick out details and flat tip makes highlighting extremely easy. Think of highlighting like a piece of paper over a fossil to do a crayon rubbing. You can try to use a pointed brush tip to try to trace the raised areas on the rubbing with a lot more effort, potential for mistakes and harsh lines, or with a flat chisel blender brush tip just dragged across the entire section which will pick out the highest areas for the highlights. Let the 3D nature of your canvas help you. I've seen lots of tutorials and videos of people painting and maybe the pros just use fine tipped brushes, but if you're going to be doing a large volume of models speeding things up really matters. For reference the lictors in my other post took 2 evenings, 4 zoanthropes in 1 sitting and 2 trygons were 4 evenings.

 YoungSolomon wrote:
I was planning on starting locally actually, as I don't think I'd have the time to take orders online being a full time student. But after reading all your responses I think I'll take out some time to practice and improve before moving forward. I just ordered my first airbrush so I want to take some time to get proficient with it and try out some new techniques before I'll feel comfortable taking someones money.

I recommend taking on commission painting more for fun rather than consistent income: My 2 cents is that commission painting is an extremely inefficient way of earning income due to a few things:

1. Inconsistent workload. (Workload becomes more consistent based on reputation but never becomes entirely consistent. (Having some awards from painting contests definitely helps establish your pedigree if you are looking towards the high end as your end-goal - e.g. having a few Golden Demons never hurts!).
2. Time spent per dollar earned. (This is dependent entirely on your level of speed/skill).
3. Customers are demanding: Guys that want their armies painted are looking for best quality for the most cut rate prices they can find. Guys that want their display pieces want the highest quality. Sadly, most painters are too slow to offer the cut rate pricing for the army commissions, and lack the skills for the high end display pieces.

YMMV of course.

On the other side: Your current painting level is very basic, but tidy. You may be able to market your current skills providing basecoats for customers at cut-rate prices. Again YMMV.

 keezus wrote:

 YoungSolomon wrote:
I was planning on starting locally actually, as I don't think I'd have the time to take orders online being a full time student. But after reading all your responses I think I'll take out some time to practice and improve before moving forward. I just ordered my first airbrush so I want to take some time to get proficient with it and try out some new techniques before I'll feel comfortable taking someones money.

I recommend taking on commission painting more for fun rather than consistent income: My 2 cents is that commission painting is an extremely inefficient way of earning income due to a few things:

1. Inconsistent workload. (Workload becomes more consistent based on reputation but never becomes entirely consistent. (Having some awards from painting contests definitely helps establish your pedigree if you are looking towards the high end as your end-goal - e.g. having a few Golden Demons never hurts!).
2. Time spent per dollar earned. (This is dependent entirely on your level of speed/skill).
3. Customers are demanding: Guys that want their armies painted are looking for best quality for the most cut rate prices they can find. Guys that want their display pieces want the highest quality. Sadly, most painters are too slow to offer the cut rate pricing for the army commissions, and lack the skills for the high end display pieces.

YMMV of course.

On the other side: Your current painting level is very basic, but tidy. You may be able to market your current skills providing basecoats for customers at cut-rate prices. Again YMMV.

Yea I didn't really expect to make a living from painting, more like something fun to make some money on the side while I'm in school. After I get a little more confidence in my painting I'll do a job or two for some friends and see how I feel


As a side note, my first airbrush arrived yesterday . I got an Iwata Eclipse and an air compressor off Amazon. One thing I'm curious about is what paints to use. I have a bunch of Citadel paints already and saw that some people dilute them for use in an airbrush but others have said to use different paints, specifically the Vallejo range. Should I stick with the Citadel paints or buy a new range? And if I can stick with the Citadel paints whats a reliable way to thin them for the airbrush? I've read lamian medium works and I have some already

Sorry, no.

Well, you were already given tips on painting (learning new techniques, Thinning down your paints (!), doing more blending, using less shading (gw shades) and more shading (with actual paints, so you do transitions yourself).

But there is also a problem concerning presentation: if you want to sell your work, AFTER getting better at it(!), you need to show it well.

Make background for your minis, so others don`t see everything that lies on your table, make sure everything`s in focus and that lighting is good.

And I wouldn`t turn to airbrush just yet- some artistic knoledge is still to be learnt