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What I've got so far :

>Take out his transport
>Kill his bodyguard in alpha strike.
>Either hope for first turn or counter deploy opposite side of the field

Options I DON'T have:
>Tarpiting
> D weapons


So any ideas gents? That 2+ invul is a biyatch and aside from fishing for Null Zone with my libbys and shooting him to death, I mentioned stuck. After I blow up his wagon he'll be less of a problem, but even then he's still pretty damn fast with a crazy stat line and a 2+ invuln when he waaaaghs (every turn). If I was playing an army with more mobile I'd just ignore him, but I'm basically going to be sandwiched between him and retinue in a BW and some nob bikers on one flank and about 80 boyz on the other.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Kill his transport and then stay away.

If he is using the orkurion to Waaagh every turn to get the 2++, then challenge him out ( he has to accept) kill the rest of his unit to get him solo. Then kill him by forcing him to make a bunch of saves.

Play the mission and kill the rest of the army. If he is running the counsil, then the rest of the army goes down fast.

Kill his transport and ignore him. Feed Him some unimportant units to keep him busy.

Better yet, box him out with Rhinos.

He's not much harder to gut than a Terminator, but the real issue is getting to him through his bodyguard. Once you pop the transport, you can easily kill the Nob Bikers and then there's just the Boyz to worry about.

Martel732 wrote:
Better yet, box him out with Rhinos.

That tactic never occurred to my unworthy mind. I can just st imsgine the full ghaz star on their battlewagons just samwhiched between rhinos to where it can't disembark the crew. It can only ram a rhino. That's so funny it hurts. :p

If you can sandwich the rhinos so they can't get out that's good. If you can't quite make it impossible to disembark then they will kill all of the rhinos in their assault phase fairly easily. You just have to kill the transport fast and then try to stay away. In combat BA tend to destroy boys so pushing that flank could give you more room so you aren't as boxed in. At least my buddies BAs killed boys very well anyway.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
he's still pretty damn fast

If he's footslogging from turn 1, he won't be in combat earlier than turn 3. If he's using a ghaz star in a wagon, it's half the list in one unit. Means you can deal with the rest of the list and leave ghaz eating a rhino per turn.

 cranect wrote:
If you can sandwich the rhinos so they can't get out that's good. If you can't quite make it impossible to disembark then they will kill all of the rhinos in their assault phase fairly easily. You just have to kill the transport fast and then try to stay away. In combat BA tend to destroy boys so pushing that flank could give you more room so you aren't as boxed in. At least my buddies BAs killed boys very well anyway.

There is a big risk though, Ghazzy and a bunch of nobs with PK can multi assault your rhinos if you are not careful. It doesnt seem statistically likely that the Rhinos survive that.

They're not meant to survive. They also won't have anyone in them. Remember they get no consolidation off killing a vehicle, either.

 Exergy wrote:

 cranect wrote:
If you can sandwich the rhinos so they can't get out that's good. If you can't quite make it impossible to disembark then they will kill all of the rhinos in their assault phase fairly easily. You just have to kill the transport fast and then try to stay away. In combat BA tend to destroy boys so pushing that flank could give you more room so you aren't as boxed in. At least my buddies BAs killed boys very well anyway.

There is a big risk though, Ghazzy and a bunch of nobs with PK can multi assault your rhinos if you are not careful. It doesnt seem statistically likely that the Rhinos survive that.

That is what i was saying. If you didn't make it impossible to disembark then they would kill them all the next turn in assault. It would delay them for a turn or two though so it could be worth it.

They are also clustered up because they don't get a consolidation. My errant's thermal cannon likes the sounds of that!

Yup it was against the council. Turns out this particular game he wasn't much of a problem. My opponent put them in a wagon and for some reason decided to Outflank (warlord trait) the thing. When it did come in I rammed the side of the wagon with a LRC and popped it. The council then proceeded to eat an entire flank( 2 6 man hammernator units, Dante and a chaplain, a unit of scouts and half of my grav devs) The Grav devs didn't do much because they were either just dropping regular nobz or he was tanking 15+ shots at a time with Ghaz and grotznik. I brought a leviathan dreadnought with storm cannons who more or less cleared out the rest of the board by himself and on T7 it was 12-11 ork victory and Ghaz had a single wound on him.

I tried the "keep away" thing and it's easier said than done. You more or less have to keep ALL units at least 20+" away from the council because if they make a charge (and subsequently delete the unit) they can move up to 30" in a turn.

The box em in thing is a pretty good idea. It would probably work better with pods full of tacs and locator beacons though.

Not really, because you are throwing away a lot more points. Empty drop pods

I thought that ghaz couldn't benefit from the constant 2++ save as he (AFAIK) cannot be taken in the formation that can waaagh every turn minus the 1st?

 hippyjr wrote:
I thought that ghaz couldn't benefit from the constant 2++ save as he (AFAIK) cannot be taken in the formation that can waaagh every turn minus the 1st?

They updated the Ghazgul supplement almost a year ago and it now hase a decurion that makes it possible

Hmmm, a sm player having problems with the underpowered orks, not sure if I should give advice or just say "hah! Serves you right"

But in all seriousness a 2up invol ghaz is little different then a bunch of terminators with those stupid shields. The best way to get past that obstacle is weight of fire. Literally that is how it's done against 3up invol termies, knights, wraith knights and riptides, you just have to put out alot of shots to eventually force them to fail multiple saves. Now I know it's not that straight forward, but short of a D weapon there is no other way past it beside weight of fire. Now if your codex can't supply that then that is just suck. There are plenty of things the ork codex deosnt provide, just another testament that 7th sucks and 8th better get here quick

geargutz wrote:
Hmmm, a sm player having problems with the underpowered orks, not sure if I should give advice or just say "hah! Serves you right"

But in all seriousness a 2up invol ghaz is little different then a bunch of terminators with those stupid shields. The best way to get past that obstacle is weight of fire. Literally that is how it's done against 3up invol termies, knights, wraith knights and riptides, you just have to put out alot of shots to eventually force them to fail multiple saves. Now I know it's not that straight forward, but short of a D weapon there is no other way past it beside weight of fire. Now if your codex can't supply that then that is just suck. There are plenty of things the ork codex deosnt provide, just another testament that 7th sucks and 8th better get here quick

Weight of fire will only do so much because in Ghazghkull's unit there should be a Mega Armoured Warboss with Da Lucky Stikk who is re-rolling all of the non-AP1/2 wounds on his 2+ save. Ghazghkull and the MABoss will be Look Out Sir!ing wounds to and from each other all game. The best way to handle the unit is probably stopping their transport and trying to destroy the rest of the list while doing your best to avoid melee with the Council. An army using the Council will have either no ObSec or very little, so playing the mission will help a lot.

That unit with Ghaz in it cost somewhere in the ballpark of 900 points. The key to stopping it is getting a bunch of AP2 in assault with it to remove the MA WB with lucky stick while a sergeant takes a beating from ghaz. Once that is completed the rest if the unit drowns in weight of fire.

You could also try to soften the unit up prior by flanking it with something shooty to help knock down the AP2 you'll need in CC to kill nobz and such to get to the warboss