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To those of you not aware, the rules for Custodes and Sisters of Silence are available on the Games Workshop website, here:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Burning%20of%20Prospero%20Imperial%20Datasheets.pdf

I'm looking at them, and they both seem to have the same theme: Extremely good base rules, but with almost no room for growth.

There's currently two big marks against them, by my reading. Firstly, since they can only be allied in but are not part of any detachment, they can only be brought in an Unbound army. (I'm sure this will be changed soon, but I'm reading the rules as-is and trying to decide how to use them.) Additionally, because they can only be allied in, they cannot start deployed in any vehicle. These are both huge issues, because they're both melee-heavy.

Sisters of Silence seem like their tactics should mimic that of Slaaneshi models: Their I5 mixed with armor-ignoring but middling strength weaponry has them well suited for charging MEQ and TEQ enemies, but less good at taking on stronger enemies like Monstrous Creatures. They are somewhat fragile, but not overly, with T3 and 3+ armor ensuring that any weighty fire will bring them down, but also making it so that they can't be easily picked off without some level of dedication. (Borrowing my math from Sisters of Battle, 10 Boltguns in rapid fire range will only cause 3 wounds, leaving behind plenty of Sisters alive.)
Their Psychic Abomination rule seems fantastic, but it also has a major drawback: It affects friendlies, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it also only has a 12" range, and combined with the aforementioned lack of transport capability, they're going to spend a LOT of time sitting around, waiting to get into range of enemies before they can fight them.


Custodes are another bag entirely. They are Honour Guard's bigger, meaner brothers, and their stats and equipment are just flat-out good. T5, 2W, 2+, EW. They can Deep Strike, as well, which somewhat mitigates their lack of transport capability. (Though, without something to make their Deep Strike more accurate, that's a risky prospect. I'm hesitant to drop 250+ points on a Deep Strike roll.) They can either get a great number of S6 AP2 attacks with no ranged capabilities whatsoever (But a fun defensive trick in melee), a massive number of S5 AP3 attacks with a good number of Bolt Pistol shots and pretty good over watch, or (For another 10ppm,) the original great number of attacks at S5 AP3, but with a 3+ Invuln. For 30 points, they can take a banner to give them even more attacks.

They're scary, in short, but with their own drawbacks: There's no way to get them into combat without at least one turn of sitting around, vulnerable to shooting. They lack invulns unless you buy them Storm Shields, but if you buy them shields then you're giving up better melee capabilities. They're incredibly expensive, and they lack grenades, so that AP2 at initiative can easily get nullified by a clever opponent who uses cover to his advantage. Some of this can be mitigated, (Buy Storm Shields for the front, and leave the unshielded Custodes in the back, for example, and throw in a character with grenades from an allied army to nullify that,) but those solutions create new problems. Plasmaguns or the like will rip them apart as though they were guardsmen, and at 50 points a model, that's a lot of muscle to lose, really quickly. They also have no bonuses to charge range, no rerolls, and no other special buffs to give them the edge in melee. (A chaplain or Ministorum Priest seems like a good addition, but then you lose the ability to Deep Strike.)



So... Thoughts? Ideas? How do we get these puppies working?

Thanks for posting these.

From a quick, cursory glance, GW is still taking a dump on Sisters. Seriously, 10 point upgrade for a Sister Superior gets you all of +1 Attack while 10 points difference for the Custodes Shield-Captain gets you +1 WS, +1 Initiative, and +1 Attack?

Otherwise, the Sisters look super fun and fluffy and ridiculously good against psykers.

They can either get a great number of S6 AP2 attacks with no ranged capabilities whatsoever (But a fun defensive trick in melee)

The guardian spear can fire as a boltgun. The sentinel blade can fire as a bolt caster. Custodes are never without shooting attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, all Custodes have Eternal Warrior with their 2 wounds... well, holy crap... that just makes them even better... They seem perfectly fine (if not a litter bit powerful) at their price point.

How do you find these on the GW website? I just spent a fair amount of time going through their site and was unable to find a resources section...

(By the way your link works, I was just curious to see what else I could find in the resources section)

I'm at least as annoyed by the Custodes being 5ppm cheaper than my Paladins and getting +1BS, S, T, A, Ld, Eternal Warrior, Fearless, a WS6/I5/A4 sergeant, and +1S/AP2/Parry melee weapons (in trade for force weapons, one Mastery level, Hammerhand, a 5++, and marginally better guns) for the price drop. It does make me feel pretty good about my homebrew GK book's treatment of Paladins, though.

Anyone else weirded out by Custodes not actually getting an Invul base?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for how to make these things work I have a tendency to rely on psykers that makes Psychic Abomination from the Sisters a bit annoying; I might consider pretending they're an upgrade on an Assassin retinue. Find them a Land Raider (either a non-DT one from a Marine book or embark them on turn one from the Inquisition book), give them an Inquisitor with rad/psychotroke, and go psychic-deathstar hunting.

Any other ideas I've got for the Sisters require a fast transport to ferry them around to turn off psychic buffs in support of someone else, though 17ppm power-armoured flamer models are nothing to sneeze at.

As for the Custodes take whatever Terminator deathstar you feel like and use them instead. It'll be expensive, but they're more than worth the extra cost over assault terminators with 2W/EW and S/T5. Bring along any kind of durability buff and any kind of speed buff and become rapidly stupid.

 Cothonian wrote:
How do you find these on the GW website? I just spent a fair amount of time going through their site and was unable to find a resources section...

(By the way your link works, I was just curious to see what else I could find in the resources section)

Google. Someone sent me a blurry image of the rules, I was trying to see if someone else had posted a high-res version, so I googled 'Sisters of Silence rules GW' (Or something like that) and it came up.

Ally the Custodes with Draigo. Hammerhand and Sanctuary on storm shield models, zipping across the board. Broken.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Cothonian wrote:
How do you find these on the GW website? I just spent a fair amount of time going through their site and was unable to find a resources section...

(By the way your link works, I was just curious to see what else I could find in the resources section)

Google. Someone sent me a blurry image of the rules, I was trying to see if someone else had posted a high-res version, so I googled 'Sisters of Silence rules GW' (Or something like that) and it came up.

Also, as for how to use them, it was mentioned in a different thread that, for 60 points, you can include a Blood Angels priest for 5+ FNP. You're going unbound already, after all, so that's no real problem. (On top of that, Azreal could provide a 4+ Invuln, though he's a bit more pricey for what he offers.


It also occurs to me that they've got no high Strength, and therefore no real way to deal with walkers or vehicles. (Or T8+ models, for that matter.) A Cataphractii Terminator Captain with a Storm Shield and Chainfist might not be a bad idea to include, both for the high durability (3++ invuln with rerolls on 1,) and for the utility he offers.

Between Shields, a Blood Angel Priest, and their "Block" ability, Custodes are like the Imperial version of Canoptek Harvest, albeit slower to move around.

They'll indefinitely tie up almost anything in the game outside of items far above their point-cost like Super Heavies.

Any thoughts on the guardian spear being able to fire "as a boltgun" but be used for melee attacks in the same turn? SO is convinced that this means Custodes can shoot and charge even though boltguns are rapid fire

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:
Any thoughts on the guardian spear being able to fire "as a boltgun" but be used for melee attacks in the same turn? SO is convinced that this means Custodes can shoot and charge even though boltguns are rapid fire

No. However, it's worth mentioning that there are other ways to use both: Attaching a Cataphractii Terminator gives Slow and Purposeful, which confers Relentless. Various psychic powers. (Endurance comes to mind.) Overtwatch and then fight. Etc.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:
Any thoughts on the guardian spear being able to fire "as a boltgun" but be used for melee attacks in the same turn? SO is convinced that this means Custodes can shoot and charge even though boltguns are rapid fire

No. However, it's worth mentioning that there are other ways to use both: Attaching a Cataphractii Terminator gives Slow and Purposeful, which confers Relentless. Various psychic powers. (Endurance comes to mind.) Overtwatch and then fight. Etc.

This was my position. SO is a bit more RAI than I am though. Still might need to shoot an email to GW though so they know to put some FAQ or something in, even though most of us know how they are going to answer, lol.

I suspect they meant to write "Terminator armour" in their equipment list and forgot to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just checked the 30k rules. Their armour provides a 2+/5++ and MTC, and their Guardian Spears' bolter attachment is 18"/S4/AP4/Assault 2 instead of "a bolter".

(They also don't have Eternal Warrior, and their shields are 4++/rerollable in melee instead of 3++)

I wouldn't be surprised if they're given a 5+ Invuln whenever some official rules come out.
Anyhow, tactics. I think 6 with GS, 1 with a shield/standard, 3 with Shield/swords, a Blood Angel Priest with a Jump Pack, a Termie Chaplain, and a Cataphractii Terminator captain with a Storm Shield and Chainfist would make a downright immovable object that can be dropped on an objective and left to sit there.
(For safety, take Drop Pods with locator beacons or something.)

If you're mixing Codexes to that degree anyway you might invite Stern along for Hammerhand (S7-8 melee) and Sanctuary (2++).

 AnomanderRake wrote:
If you're mixing Codexes to that degree anyway you might invite Stern along for Hammerhand (S7-8 melee) and Sanctuary (2++).

That's not a bad idea, though I'd just take a ML3 Termie Librarian with the Domina Liber Daemonica. I'm trying to avoid using Psychic support, though, since it can be shut down by savvy opponents, and if you take these guys alongside Sisters then they lose their buffs.

Looks like sisters of silence makes a fine kill team

morfydd wrote:
Looks like sisters of silence makes a fine kill team

That's true, though I'd imagine the number of psykers you'd need to deal with (and their effectiveness) in Kill Team is fairly limited?

That still leaves you with a 15 point model with exceptional initiative and a very deadly melee weapon. Intriguing...

The only problem I find is you can only max them out at 180 points for a 200 point game since GW's Kill Team rules only let you take units out of one book. I mean, ymmv, but you can ask your opponent if they are ok with it, but it's technically not allowed

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:
The only problem I find is you can only max them out at 180 points for a 200 point game since GW's Kill Team rules only let you take units out of one book. I mean, ymmv, but you can ask your opponent if they are ok with it, but it's technically not allowed

Taking 180 pts in a 200 pt game isn't illegal you know

Yeah, but it's a 10% handicap

Edit: and I doubt I would be taking all of them with flamer anyway

Wait, am I missing something? Couldn't you just take two squads? "Same book" seems like it would include squads coming from the same datasheet...

Nope, they are elites.
Only 1 elite in a kill team.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

morfydd wrote:
Looks like sisters of silence makes a fine kill team

That's true, though I'd imagine the number of psykers you'd need to deal with (and their effectiveness) in Kill Team is fairly limited?

That still leaves you with a 15 point model with exceptional initiative and a very deadly melee weapon. Intriguing...

There's no 2+ armor in Kill Team though, right? So what you're getting is just S4 AP3 at I5. The I5 is the only bit that's hard to come by.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:
Any thoughts on the guardian spear being able to fire "as a boltgun" but be used for melee attacks in the same turn? SO is convinced that this means Custodes can shoot and charge even though boltguns are rapid fire

No. However, it's worth mentioning that there are other ways to use both: Attaching a Cataphractii Terminator gives Slow and Purposeful, which confers Relentless. Various psychic powers. (Endurance comes to mind.) Overtwatch and then fight. Etc.

Take a look at the rules for the Guardian Spear (the same wargear) in the Deathwatch Codex. Yes, you can shoot and assault with it in the same turn, it says so specifically in the description for the Guardian Spear, as per the Watch Master. This is the same weapon as granted to Custodes.

Actually, it also says the same thing in the pdf from GW

Here's the link:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Burning%20of%20Prospero%20Imperial%20Datasheets.pdf

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Red_Ink_Cat wrote:
Any thoughts on the guardian spear being able to fire "as a boltgun" but be used for melee attacks in the same turn? SO is convinced that this means Custodes can shoot and charge even though boltguns are rapid fire

No. However, it's worth mentioning that there are other ways to use both: Attaching a Cataphractii Terminator gives Slow and Purposeful, which confers Relentless. Various psychic powers. (Endurance comes to mind.) Overtwatch and then fight. Etc.

Take a look at the rules for the Guardian Spear (the same wargear) in the Deathwatch Codex. Yes, you can shoot and assault with it in the same turn, it says so specifically in the description for the Guardian Spear, as per the Watch Master. This is the same weapon as granted to Custodes.

Actually, it also says the same thing in the pdf from GW

Here's the link:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/Burning%20of%20Prospero%20Imperial%20Datasheets.pdf

Yeah, that's what I was looking at.

The paragraph states "...can fire it as a boltgun. It can also attack with it in the Assault phase using the profile below. It can do both in the same turn." (Emphasis mine.)

So, there is nothing saying they specifically ignore rapid fire prohibitting shooting and assaulting in the same turn. RAW it says you can use both profiles for the spear in their appropriate phases of the turn if you are able. I would assume that if GW wanted them to be able to shoot and assault, they would have made the spear's shooting option like the bolt caster - an assault weapon - especially since GW has been sticking to RAW pretty solidly lately.

Wondering if an Ordo Xenos inquisitor with the big book of heresey would be a good match up for the sisters? Rad grenades help make their attacks a bit more likely to stick and on a couple of turns can give them counter attack or hatred for a bit more punch when charging/ getting charged. Question is whether scout gives them enough assistance in regards to movement, could either stick them 6" in front as an anti psychic screen or outflank if there's something you want to attack but then I guess they are still standing around for turn in which the enemy can run away/ gun them down.
Other possibility is my favourite utility character Lias Issodon, he can infiltrate up to 3 squads to put pressure on psychic heavy armies in the early game and could join one squad to give shrouded (and stealth for the first turn) to hopefully help them stick around.