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Im curious if this is just my area or if it is something bigger I never knew.
So, we have a few ork players in our area, and while some only use models from the box, I have noticed that a few ork players tend to get.........creative for lack of a better term.
While I know building your own models for Orks is a draw, I noticed that sometimes it can get rediculous. We had an ork player just slap some Armor Plates and bits from other people and put them on a bucket, called it a Bucket Stompa
A few others will just buy toys from the store, stick some random bitz from other armies and say it is a trukk.
We had one guys glue some droppod doors together, put some propellers to it, and say it is a Warcopta........
I have not seen this from other armies or players, or even the same players with other armies. It seems like just orks. I have seen proxies or "This Riptide is a Y'varha, I wanna test it out before I buy it" but never have I seen other armies just plop down toys.
Is it because the main draw of orks is their cheap to build and people let it slide?
Or am I an donkey-cave?

It's easy to justify a random collection of junk held together with glue when Ork vehicles are typically built out of scrap.

Less so with cleaner Imperial or other Xenos vehicles.

Being creative is one of the few ways to enjoy an ork army.
You can play an army for all sorts of reasons.

An interesting or powerful play style -> Orks are kinda lacking on this front.
Cool novels and fluff -> Orks have cool fluff but there isn't much out there even the whole beast novel series barely goes really into the ork perspective.
Cheap models -> Orks are not cheap, building an ork army is really expensive in fact.
Fun to paint -> Orks are a nightmare to paint really sure you can just paint them but its quite hard to paint so that they look stunning compared to lets say space marines. And who really wants to paint 60+ boyz .

Modeling options -> this is where they shine. It is encouraged by GW. There are a ton of cool things to build that are hard to buy.
And perhaps the most important factor player base accepts unusual low quality sculpts and conversions making the bar for ork modelling low. So you will get much more positive feedback on your first attempts even if they are really clumsy. This all makes orks the army to learn to model.

This makes it that most players who are not really into modelling are more likely to switch armies enforcing the idea of the creative army even more.

any Mek worth his teeth knows how to scrap build

Being an ork player myself, i enjoy that kind of thing and see it as a funny input in an environment otherwise dominated by humourless netlists and Imperial power creep. It fits the fluff perfectly and if you look at how competetive an ork army is, you cant blame the ork players for wanting to save some money... Playing with or against orks is mostly about having fin imo.
Having said that, i do think all conversions should be done with love and look some what convincing

Just look at these gw pictures. They have released official pictures like these for years. It isn't strange that player are mirroring this. I honestly believe that if GW would have made a SM chapter with the same scapheap challenge attitude in their articles that players playing that chapter would also be "creative"



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The same thing goes for inquisition players.
GW has published pictures of heavily converted squads and armies for years now and a lot of players are mirroring this.

When people are actually creative and put effort into converting things like kids toys and household items into Ork vehicles, it is something that should be praised and enjoyed. When it's just random bits slapped onto something that still clearly looks like the thing it was originally - that's a no go.

G.A

That sounds like every Ork player I've ever met. You're not a real Ork player unless your collection includes at least one repurposed Airfix kit or toy car with plasticard stuck to it.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The same thing goes for inquisition players.
GW has published pictures of heavily converted squads and armies for years now and a lot of players are mirroring this.

That's different. Ork players convert stuff because it's Orky; Inquisition players convert and proxy because GW has never really produced any kits for the army, so you either improvise or don't take a model. I had a Servitor with no arms and a Green-Stuff-enlarged head as a Sage, and I used the Sergeants GW put in every box of Kasrkins as Acolytes - the Kasrkins themselves I used as ISTs.

 General Annoyance wrote:
When people are actually creative and put effort into converting things like kids toys and household items into Ork vehicles, it is something that should be praised and enjoyed. When it's just random bits slapped onto something that still clearly looks like the thing it was originally - that's a no go.

G.A

In fairness, fixing unmodified 40k bits onto another unmodified model/toy is the obvious starting place. If the hobbiest is happy with the result then good. If they aren't then they will probably put some critical thought into how to get a better result next time.

Someone just starting off probably doesn't have the tools to saw everything into bits, the materials to fabricate required custom parts or the vision to understand what will result in something that looks good. Understanding what is required to create something truly special comes with a decent amount of experience.

I don't see it as a major practice if your local is a GW shop. As they're technically advertising platforms, any model we use has to be made up of ~80% GW bits.

Basically, we can't use things like looted Mk.4 tanks, but we can have stuff with Mk.4 tank bits stuck to it; as long as the base model is a GW thing, it's fine. We don't have to expressly state that "oh, it's a load of Airfix", rather just a bunch of crud you yanked out of an old drawer.

The GW site used to have an article on scratch-building where they showed off their own work and other people's. One item they showed was a devilfish made out of a deodorant brick and said "Looky here, that's fethin' cool. Let's Get Creative!".


3rd Edition Orks was mainly buying boxes of boys and using crud to make everything else, we didn't get real sets for the majority of our units until very recently with 6th/7th edition. The 3rd Edition codex even has sections of the book dedicated to it and showing the author and another guy's work. The whitedwarves from 200-300 contained Chapter Approved that contained rules for weird things and told you "use a tub of zoo animals to make this"

Sure, GW has changed, but once upon a time Orkz got a spotlight. As well as 4+-Save Choppas and hilarious Speed Freek rules.

Da Kommizzar has reminded me:

The OP is lucky his ork opponents are actually going to the effort of buying toys to convert.

In 40k's first iteration ork players were encouraged to make their battle wagons out of cereal boxes, coffee pot lids and candy wrappers. There were White Dwarf articles and everything!

 BBAP wrote:
That sounds like every Ork player I've ever met. You're not a real Ork player unless your collection includes at least one repurposed Airfix kit or toy car with plasticard stuck to it.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The same thing goes for inquisition players.
GW has published pictures of heavily converted squads and armies for years now and a lot of players are mirroring this.

That's different. Ork players convert stuff because it's Orky; Inquisition players convert and proxy because GW has never really produced any kits for the army, so you either improvise or don't take a model. I had a Servitor with no arms and a Green-Stuff-enlarged head as a Sage, and I used the Sergeants GW put in every box of Kasrkins as Acolytes - the Kasrkins themselves I used as ISTs.

I have to disagree on this one.
Inquisition had models for nearly every model in the codex for years, some henchmen even had multiple model options. They do have reduced their range recently but most inq players I know of created their own models even before the reduction of the range. GW has celebrated this for as long as I can remember.

Just look at this archive, it almost entirely consists out of great artists showing off their cool Inquisitorial henchmen conversions and sculpts in a period that the regular models where commonly available.
http://gothicpunk.tumblr.com/blanchitsuDB

There is a difference between inq and ork conversions in that the bar is way higher for inq players. But the whole reason seems to be the same, its the culture that GW has created over tens of years.

Here is an other example if you don't believe me.

These servitor models are currently sold by GW.
- Servitor with multi meta.
- Servitor with plasma cannon.
- Servitor with servo arm.
Notice that they don't produce the heavy bolter option currently. So we would only expect heavy bolter conversions if it was just the model availability that made players convert them. This is not what is happening at all, most of the conversions out there seem to be made because the players liked the creative aspect of building them and somehow want to match the way GW has been portraying them of decades now in the art and white dwarf articles.


.

Orks are, by the by, one of the more expensive armies to make due to the high model count.

Orks, Guard, Tyrannid.

You see anyone playing one of those three forces, you should give 'em respect. They are *invested*, yo.

I'm not a fan of 'wacky' conversions when it's just a halfhearted attempt to be funny and makes the game look silly (or sillier than it already is). Orks can definitely push the boundaries a bit more and it's fine when the result actually looks like a model but not when it's just a jar/cardboard box/kids' toy with bits of model glued on. Urgh.

 General Annoyance wrote:
When people are actually creative and put effort into converting things like kids toys and household items into Ork vehicles, it is something that should be praised and enjoyed. When it's just random bits slapped onto something that still clearly looks like the thing it was originally - that's a no go.

G.A

Simple as that.

Yep, I think people are not understanding the OP.

There is a difference between putting effort into converting any number of toys/models/bits into something very Orky and fluffy.

Sticking an autocannon onto a Tonka Truck and then defending its use by saying "Oh, it's Orky..." is weak sauce.

It is but there is also is a learning curve. Every great ork converter had to start somewhere.

 oldzoggy wrote:
It is but there is also is a learning curve. Every great ork converter had to start somewhere.

Yeah But I see this along the same lines as painting armies...so many people say "well I suck at painting so I don't do it". Well No kidding, most people aren't born heavy metal level painters it takes practice, but often it's an excuse not to do it. Same With converting, I don't want to pay gw pricing so I buy a ten dollar toy slap a gun on it and call it a truck, seems to be an out more often than a true lack of skill or initiative.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Inquisition had models for nearly every model in the codex for years, some henchmen even had multiple model options.

Yeah, but they were all one-piece metal models with their wargear affixed to their body in some way. I remember one of the "Acolyte" models had a bath-robe, a plasma pistol, and a book on a stick, and I think there was another one with a bath-robe and a bolter. If you didn't want bath-robe Acolytes with books on sticks - which nobody did - you **had** to get creative. I'm not saying that no Inquisition player has ever converted a model just for the hell of it - I did, I hacked a metal Dark Angels Veteran to bits and put him back together again to make an Inquisitor Lord in Power Armour that I never once used in a game - but the lack of variety that comes with one-piece miniatures made conversion a necessity if you wanted to field Henchmen with any wargear options beyond bath-robes and books on sticks.

I didn't see a single model in that archive either. Several designs for them, and a lot of John Blanche artwork, but no conversions.

Notice that they don't produce the heavy bolter option currently. So we would only expect heavy bolter conversions if it was just the model availability that made players convert them. This is not what is happening at all, most of the conversions out there seem to be made because the players liked the creative aspect of building them and somehow want to match the way GW has been portraying them of decades now in the art and white dwarf articles.

I take your point, but I've never seen a Heavy Bolter Servitor conversion in my life, though if such a thing does exist I can't imagine it was done for any practical gameplay reason.

To answer the question: Is it okay and normal for Ork players to create their own versions of models like vehicles? Yes, it is what defines the Orkz besides having a terrible updated Codex.

To answer the question: Are my ork players making lame conversions and expecting it to get them out of something? Depends on the quality of the conversion relative to the hobbyist and its progress toward completion. It also depends on the requirements of the store/event organizer. If your event organizer is cool with it, then it has already been deemed okay. GW requires more GW-plastic.


This video doesn't really answer the question, but might provoke thought.

I know a couple local guys who make appaling conglomerates of glue and bits just because it's fun. They call 'em "The Mad Doks Experiments" and pick whatever codex rules seem to vaguely match the model they built. I know I made some awful-looking creations back in the day.

 BBAP wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Inquisition had models for nearly every model in the codex for years, some henchmen even had multiple model options.

I didn't see a single model in that archive either. Several designs for them, and a lot of John Blanche artwork, but no conversions.

Ugh.. Its not a illegal lets copy paste all white dwarf content here site. Its a handy reference site.
And it makes a lot of references to great artists who have been honered by placing pictures of their Inquisitorial henchmen in the WD even in times that there where more Acolyte models available than just the book + staff dude they sell now a days. Here are some examples of them, and you will have to believe me that all of the others are just as heavily converted.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Ugh.. Its not a illegal lets copy paste all white dwarf content here site

... why did you tell me to look through it for examples if you knew there'd be no examples there? Why do that and then get snippy with me when I tell you what you already know?

in times that there where more Acolyte models available than just the book + staff dude they sell now a days

When was this? I've been playing Daemonhunters & Witch Hunters off and on for maybe 10 years - he's the only one I remember, aside from the other bolter-bathrobe dude. The book on a stick dude was metal - I still have him in a Chocolate orange tin with the rest of the Coteaz retinue models, including a couple of HB Servitors - so I doubt they sell him anymore. Unless it's in Finecast now, in which case... ugh.

Either way I don't see how any of this challenges my point that converting was a necessity for Inquisition players, and thus the reason most Inquisition players did it. The fact some hobbyists also did it for hobby reasons is immaterial.

nareik wrote:
In fairness, fixing unmodified 40k bits onto another unmodified model/toy is the obvious starting place. If the hobbiest is happy with the result then good. If they aren't then they will probably put some critical thought into how to get a better result next time.

Someone just starting off probably doesn't have the tools to saw everything into bits, the materials to fabricate required custom parts or the vision to understand what will result in something that looks good. Understanding what is required to create something truly special comes with a decent amount of experience.

I get that, to an extent at least. Really a starting converter should begin their conversion work the other way round - rather than add parts onto something not intended to be a wargaming model, they should add common bits and pieces onto GW models to give them their own spin; I am currently doing this right now with an Ork Trukk, where I'm building a roofed version using cardboard and wire mesh. It's not much, but from there you would obtain the understanding of both the materials and the equipment you need to make a really good conversion of something not intended for use in TT wargaming.

Perhaps the ork players in question are beginner "scratch-builders" for lack of better term.

Kitbashing is a great way to get used to mild conversions. A Stompa, however, is not something one can simply kitbash or make from another set without spending equivalent money. Scratch-building exists to either supplement a model range, get exactly the image you want, or save money. Spending money on learning to modify trukks or buying 10 trukks so that you can make a stompa out of them is sort of defeating the purpose and/or not an obvious line of judgement for learners.

The need for converting henchmen because of lack of models was sure a lot less imminent when you could just pick up a redemptionist necromunda box containing all the non storm trooper acolytes you would have ever needed ; )

And there was the dual down flamer dude. But that one was a bit strange.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

While I know building your own models for Orks is a draw, I noticed that sometimes it can get rediculous. We had an ork player just slap some Armor Plates and bits from other people and put them on a bucket, called it a Bucket Stompa
A few others will just buy toys from the store, stick some random bitz from other armies and say it is a trukk.
We had one guys glue some droppod doors together, put some propellers to it, and say it is a Warcopta........

Many Ork players like to scratch build. Nothing wrong with that. However, as you've described it, this guys is basically doing the "This Coke Bottle I spray painted Black and stuck Aquilla bits to is a drop pod" shtick.

Not ok.

It's similar to using your old Catachan models as 30k Solar Auxilia, in my book.

But it's your hobby. Forge your own narrative.

Back in the old days you had to scratchbuild most Ork vehicles, and there weren't any bespoke models for a lot of their codex entries. Scratchbuilding and converting is in the army's DNA. All my trukks are a mix of Taurox, Rhino, Trukk, and sundry bits from all over my collection, not a stock kit in there. My Battlewagon is an uparmored and expanded Leman Russ. It's just the Orky way.