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I wanted to do a Daemonkin-styled Army which uses Daemons aswell as Space Marines, but I saw that HH Wasn't very friendly towards that, but however Rules don't have to be followed if no one wants to enforce them, so I want to know your opinion on this dakkadakka

1) In short, you would need an allied detachement of daemons, and a cad of marines (or vice versa)
2) AFAIK you can use daemons in 30k no issue.
3) You WOULDN'T be battle brothers unless you were word bearers. Presumably "by the warmaster's command"
4) traitor only, IMO obviously

Oh sweet!, could you still use a rite of war though?

Yes. So long as the rite fits the force org your using and doesn't disallow allies.

I don't want to disapoint you, but even by using an allied detachment the only way to do so is via Word Bearer Legion. As they have special characters (Erebus and Kor Phaeron) as well as a rite (Dark brethren) that allow you to allie deamons. This mean in reverse, that deamons are no valide alli for a Legion army apart from WB meeting the aformentioned prequisites. This is further backed by the fact that deamons don't show up in the Age of Darkness allied Matrix.

Xantalora wrote:
I don't want to disapoint you, but even by using an allied detachment the only way to do so is via Word Bearer Legion. As they have special characters (Erebus and Kor Phaeron) as well as a rite (Dark brethren) that allow you to allie deamons. This mean in reverse, that deamons are no valide alli for a Legion army apart from WB meeting the aformentioned prequisites. This is further backed by the fact that deamons don't show up in the Age of Darkness allied Matrix.

True, but I think that that might end up being an oversight. With Daemons being able to ally with Certain militia now as well, and the fact that daemon armies are kinda massive for certain events in the HH (the return to istvaan, sanguinius vs. khornate daemons, the maelstrom shenanigans, etc.)

just play 30k if you want marines and daemons or WB/TS in 30k

I think that in narrative games there is no limit. But in "normal" and balanced games is better to stay inside the rules. As feindus said, the Daemons are fully integrated in the traitor legions in 40k, but in.the Heresy most of the legion had not fall so far... yet.

The daemon allies is what defines and make different WB in 30k. If you want to play daemons indeed you can build an army of dar k compliance with a rogue psyker sumonning or a Broken legions army with WB and your other legions and Erebus/Kor phaeron/Hol beloth as the warlord, who unlock daemon as allies.

Maybe the simpler way to think about this is can you use Daemons and ally in some Space Marines.

I am not aware of any restriction on taking a Daemon's list and allying in a Legion. Like previous posters said, they would not be battle brothers, but that's not the worst thing.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Maybe the simpler way to think about this is can you use Daemons and ally in some Space Marines.

I am not aware of any restriction on taking a Daemon's list and allying in a Legion. Like previous posters said, they would not be battle brothers, but that's not the worst thing.

There is no Daemons list in the heresy, they can not be played alone purely. Obviously they are there in the lore, as the eldars or the orks, but they are not a legal army for balanced "normal" games.

Alright, so what I'm hearing is that Daemons are allowed but by either special Characters and shenanigans (WB. Erebus+Kor Phaeron) or a Alliance detachment. just a question, what makes Daemon's unbalanced in HH?, I thought that they were fairly weak unless you used certain lists (Tzeentch Messery)

Formations and Belakor are not wellcome in HH games. But is your game and your hobby, just talk with your local group.

The rules only allow the daemons if there are WB or rogue psykers of the militia in your army.

Each of the 3 WB characters unlock allies when the are warlords. And the first Rite of the WB has the same effect. Also WB librarians can summon.

Taking daemons with marines is bit of a minefield, you may be better off just having a complete army of them (minus those formation shenanigans!) by taking Samus or Cor'bax Utterblight.

I don't know how much you know about them, but i'll plonk the rules links here just in case.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Corbax_Utterblight.pdf
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Samus_Daemon_Prince_of_the_Ruinstorm.pdf

 Brennonjw wrote:

Xantalora wrote:
I don't want to disapoint you, but even by using an allied detachment the only way to do so is via Word Bearer Legion. As they have special characters (Erebus and Kor Phaeron) as well as a rite (Dark brethren) that allow you to allie deamons. This mean in reverse, that deamons are no valide alli for a Legion army apart from WB meeting the aformentioned prequisites. This is further backed by the fact that deamons don't show up in the Age of Darkness allied Matrix.

True, but I think that that might end up being an oversight. With Daemons being able to ally with Certain militia now as well, and the fact that daemon armies are kinda massive for certain events in the HH (the return to istvaan, sanguinius vs. khornate daemons, the maelstrom shenanigans, etc.)

The response that FW apparently gives to this question is that the only official way to use daemons in 30K is as WB or Warp Cult allies. Obviously, players are free to do whatever they want.

I suspect this will change with the book after Inferno however, as rumors point to it covering Signus Prime.

I said no, because only Word Bearers and Cults have access to them, and only in a very strict form.

30K is about Space Marine Legion vs. Space Marine Legion. Anything else isn't 30K. Mechanicum where involved as well from the beginning, but they are not central to the narrative.

If you want Xenos or to play a non-Legion army, then play 40K.

Of course, you and your mates can play any game any way you want. But you asked for opinions, and this is mine.

Daemons can be used as allies if you play Word Bearers with either Erebus or Kor Phaeron, or if you use the Dark Brethen Rite of War. The documents for Corbax and Samus (of Forgeworld) seem to indicate that you can use a primary detachment of Daemons (so, simply play a daemon army). However, the rules for Corbax and Samus are experimental, so...

If your Word bearers, go for it. Otherwise no.

Army of Dark Compliance, give them provenance 'Cult Horde', HQ 'Demagogue' and then you may take Daemons as allies and the marine component of your principal AoDC force can be from whatever Traitor Legion you want. You must just abide by the AoDC rules on composition.

 Warzoner wrote:
Daemons can be used as allies if you play Word Bearers with either Erebus or Kor Phaeron, or if you use the Dark Brethen Rite of War. The documents for Corbax and Samus (of Forgeworld) seem to indicate that you can use a primary detachment of Daemons (so, simply play a daemon army). However, the rules for Corbax and Samus are experimental, so...

FW have said that it isn't intended that those characters 'unlock' daemons as a playable army.

I'd let a friend that asked in advance. Pick up game or tournaments I'd say no.