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Hi Dakka,

How does this sound for a 2000 point Order list?

Leaders:

High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer (220) - General
Belegar Ironhammer (140)
Ungrim Ironfist (100)
Grimm Burloksson (100)
Runelord (80) - Pheonix Stone
Archmage (120) - Swift Elven Steed, Pheonix Stone

Units:

20x Hammerers
20x Longbeards - Great Axes and Shields (Battleline)
30x Thunderers - Bucklers, Clan Banner
10x Warriors - Double Handed Dwarf Axes and Shields, Clan Banner (Battleline)
10x Warriors - Double Handed Dwarf Axes and Shields, Clan Banner (Battleline)

The idea:

Keep all leaders close to the Longbeards for the 'Old Grumblers' rule.
Use mutliple command abilities as per the 'Who does this beardling thinks he is?' option to grant +1 attack for every model within 8" of the High King, +1 attack with each weapon against a single enemy unit within 16" of Belegar Ironhammer, +1 to hit and wound rolls for a friendly unit in combat within 16" of Ungrim Ironfist simultaneously.
Buff the Hammerers to have 4 attacks each with 2+ to hit 2+ to wound and -1 rend.
Cast Elemental Shield with the Archmage for 6+ ward bubble.
March forwards from turn 1.

In the mean time; use Grim Burloksson's 6" range increase on the 30 Thunderers and give them -1 rend with the Runelord
Obliterate anything within 22" with 30 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound -2 rend shots.
The Runelord can buff the Hamerers if needed.

Two lines of 10 Warriors hold objectives.

Runelord and Archmage with +2 and +1 (respectively) for unbinds.


Thanks,

I would drop 10 of the longbeards and the mage. Then replace them with a second runelord (giving access to -3 rend, or still having that 6+ save on just one unit) and add a unit of 10 thunderers and the Dispossessed Clan Throng battalion. In my experience the rerolling 1s to hit has always been way bigger than i expected. With those changes your fully buffed hammerers with average rolls would deal 67 wounds that could not be saved except with "ward saves" or a natural 3+ save (which would bring you down to just dealing 56 wounds).

Of course there would be drawbacks to not having a wizard (like no arcane shield, or the special 6+ bubble), but as a dwarf do we really want magic in our army anyway

Oh, and switch the 30 thunderers to quarrellers for the extra 4" of range, and technically Q with a 20+ bonus are better than T with a 20+ bonus (if we don't count rend because you can fix that with the runelords)

Volund wrote:
Of course there would be drawbacks to not having a wizard (like no arcane shield, or the special 6+ bubble), but as a dwarf do we really want magic in our army anyway

Indeed we don't!

But I think I will keep the Thunderers specifically because I can get -2 or now even -3 rend for them and that is devastating. I did the math some time ago too but can't really recall the per shot avg for each.

I hadn't thought of the Throng battalion which is a fantastic boost. Should I then replace Clan Banners with Runic Icons for the Warriors and the Thunderers now that I ignore half the results on a battleshock test? Or is trusting the Runelords with unbinds still the way to go?

Personally I'd do all you can to keep the -3 rend.
It's pretty essential against most armies.

Stormcasts get no saves unless it's a character.

It goes straight through seraphon shields.

It goes through the armour of nearly every monster.



As I said, -3 rend is a big deal and allows you to decimate the more elite units or monsters.


While I've not used an army like this before, I have run wanderers with a ton of glade guard.
The -3 rend shooting tips games in your favour nearly every time.

I bring both kinds of banners because that is how i modeled them and everyone I have played against has agreed that the wording allows for multiple banners and that each banner can choose to be clan or icon. If your group says just one though, i would still stick with the clan banners. I think the runic icons have affected my games maybe 1 time ever. They are good, but most times i have played, magic is more for buffing enemy units rather than directly attacking my units, and the clan banners make it so that if you enter the battle shock phase with 2 or more models, your unit will always survive (because you halve the "number of models" which would flee, not halve the difference between calculated score and bravery)

Runelord unbinding is awesome and i have only seen it fail a few times, but the problem is you have to keep the runelords pretty much at the front of the army to use them that way. If i stay even 3" behind my 4" deep unit (three loose ranks) and he casts from 12" away, no unbinding allowed. As long as you keep that in mind and can safely position appropiately, they should be sufficent.

I totally understand about keeping the thunderers, there is something very satisfying about rolling 3+, 3+ and then no save allowed XD

Unless of course you are playing Death with their "ignore all rend" gimmik -.- then you need 2 units of 20 Quarrelers for sheer volume of shots

Jackal wrote:As I said, -3 rend is a big deal and allows you to decimate the more elite units or monsters..

Exactly, any shooting unit with -3 rend is a big fat threat to any elite or monster based army.
And threats force your opponents to make mistakes!

Volund wrote:I bring both kinds of banners because that is how i modeled them and everyone I have played against has agreed that the wording allows for multiple banners and that each banner can choose to be clan or icon

If I can do this it'd be a very nice gimmick but otherwise I'm more inclined towards clan banners too.
Ignore half the results on a D6, then halve the number of models if they still flee? Awesome.

Thanks guys!