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So here is a fun engagement: Who would win in a fight, an imperial Storm Trooper, or a street hardened Arbitrator? Both should have combat experience, but one is obviously military and the other one is a judge dredd rip off future cop that could patrol the depths of a hive city for thugs and take out the worst of the worst.

Thoughts?

Edit 1: Alright, cool good feedback so far! And I apologize if I made it sound like a newbie scion versus vet arbite, I meant a veteren arbite versus Scion.

And, for now let's say it's on a nearly abandoned space station that both of them never been in before, With the normal equipment both sides would have.

It bogs down to special forces Vs SWAT, basically. I thought nk the Scions would won because of their hotshot. The arbitrator shotgun seems to be a poor weapon to use on carapace armored persons, meanwhile the hslg can go through PA

Diffrwnt training. The scions have gear and skills to take on heavy armour like carpace.

The artbtayes are not so well equipped as there regular foes are gangers and thugs who rarely will have access tonfull capace sets.

Scion, pretty handily too.

It depends on the kind of engagement, but I would put my money on Scion due to their superior equipment.

I think if the Scions were to venture into the dark recesses of the Hive the Arbites would have a good shot at taking it, being accustomed to fighting in confined and hazardous areas against asymmetric guerilla forces. Anywhere else I'd just give it to the Scions.

Really depends on location and what equipment is available

 MarsNZ wrote:
I think if the Scions were to venture into the dark recesses of the Hive the Arbites would have a good shot at taking it, being accustomed to fighting in confined and hazardous areas against asymmetric guerilla forces.

That's one of the many things the Scions would be trained for too, I would expect. Arbites are tough, but in the end, only one group is the best of the best of the non-gene-modded, sir!

What's the battlefield?

On an open field, the guy with the long range laser that slices through steel wins.

In a maze of ducts and pipes, the shot gun should win.

Or is it a fist fight?

Or is a contest to see who can find the heretic mad bomber first?

You get the idea. It's like asking whether a hammer is better than a screwdriver.

Scion. They are heavily augmented humans with top off the line training. An arbite whilst hard wouldnt match up.

 jhe90 wrote:
Diffrwnt training. The scions have gear and skills to take on heavy armour like carpace.

The artbtayes are not so well equipped as there regular foes are gangers and thugs who rarely will have access tonfull capace sets.

The arbites foes are an Imperial governor's elite life company, and the blood axe Orks, hybrid genestealers, tau elites, or chaos demons that the governor is teamed up with.

 Spinner wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
I think if the Scions were to venture into the dark recesses of the Hive the Arbites would have a good shot at taking it, being accustomed to fighting in confined and hazardous areas against asymmetric guerilla forces.

That's one of the many things the Scions would be trained for too, I would expect. Arbites are tough, but in the end, only one group is the best of the best of the non-gene-modded, sir!

I'm not saying Scions would be flailing around like noobs in the dark underhive, they'd still know how to fight well there, but they also have to train for many other scenarios/settings. Arbites stationed on a hive world would seldom fight in different conditions. Surviving a few years of patrols tracking some of the most desperate people in the Imperium would surely teach them a few tricks that aren't in the Scion manual. Also it's not just humans down there...

If you're giving the Arbites a ''few years'' to learn things, you salso have ot give it to Scions, who would learn things that aren't on their books either, and they'll probably face worse things than anything an Hive city can house.

Arbites, but I may be biased I have a 400 point combat patrol of them

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:
I think if the Scions were to venture into the dark recesses of the Hive the Arbites would have a good shot at taking it, being accustomed to fighting in confined and hazardous areas against asymmetric guerilla forces.

That's one of the many things the Scions would be trained for too, I would expect. Arbites are tough, but in the end, only one group is the best of the best of the non-gene-modded, sir!

I'm not saying Scions would be flailing around like noobs in the dark underhive, they'd still know how to fight well there, but they also have to train for many other scenarios/settings. Arbites stationed on a hive world would seldom fight in different conditions. Surviving a few years of patrols tracking some of the most desperate people in the Imperium would surely teach them a few tricks that aren't in the Scion manual. Also it's not just humans down there...

Stop giving free advantages to the side you want to win.

Scions win, easily.

I'd agree that Arbites would probably win (maybe 60% of the time) in their home turf. They know the streets, they know the lay of the land, they know it all, while the Scions? Don't.

That being said, it's a HUGE advantage in the Arbites favor. In an even fight (both in unfamiliar terrain or on familiar terrain, starting at a reasonable distance away, terrain doesn't heavily favor one side or that other) I'm giving it to the Scion 95% or more of the time.

Alright, cool good feedback so far! And I apologize if I made it sound like a newbie scion versus vet arbite, I meant a veteren arbite versus Scion.

And, for now let's say it's on a nearly abandoned space station that both of them never been in before, With the normal equipment both sides would have.

Thanks again, This will be updated in the topic for future discission!

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Alright, cool good feedback so far! And I apologize if I made it sound like a newbie scion versus vet arbite, I meant a veteren arbite versus Scion.

And, for now let's say it's on a nearly abandoned space station that both of them never been in before, With the normal equipment both sides would have.

Thanks again, This will be updated in the topic for future discission!

..

Standard is a hot shot Las hun for scions. AP...
It Il cut through the armour.

The shot gun will not do same AP damage.

Scion 10 times out of 10.

Superior weapon, armor, equipment (after all, Scions have plenty of gadgets in the fluff that don't impact the tabletop), experience and training.

Agreed. If it's a fit in a tactical vacuum, the scion is well-equipped special forces versus essentially a swat team.

Some of the arbitrators training is investgator, some is legal, some is terrain specific to the world of his posting. The scions is purely battlefield skills with a wide range of potential environments.

The first and second of the arbitrators skills are meaningless in a fight.

the third is potentially battle-winning, if the terms of the fight allow him to use it (i.e. is he getting a home-turf advantage) if not, it's probably the scion.

Also, just to note, there were official stats for arbites in a 7e compatible format in citadel journal - they were essentially guardsmen (ws3 bs3) in carapace plate, so no match for a stormtrooper. Their gun was good - executioner rounds essentially made their shotguns into twinlinked laslocks (18" s4 assault 1, twinlinked), which means theyll put out wounds much better than the scion (about half again, in fact, outside rapid fire range), but still less lethal than a hotshot las (because you'd need to do double to make up for the loss of the body armour unless theres good cover involved)

 Bobthehero wrote:
It bogs down to special forces Vs SWAT, basically. I thought nk the Scions would won because of their hotshot. The arbitrator shotgun seems to be a poor weapon to use on carapace armored persons, meanwhile the hslg can go through PA

The Arbites have access to a wide range of equipment, some of which even the Imperial Guard doesn't have normal access to on a regular basis. Everything from laspistols and Locke-Pattern bolters, to Rhinos and Leman Russ battle tanks. And the Arbitrators are trained for combat. They have to be prepared for anything, up to plague zombies, treasonous PDFs, and Genestealer cults. Their body armor isn't up to the standards of the Tempestus Militarum, but it's still better than the "tee-shirts" issued to the Guard and PDFs.


As for the thread topic at hand.....


In truth, comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are Progenium trained adepta. But their fields of specialty are different, even if they overlap in some areas. The Arbites are bad ass, elite militarized police. The Scions are bad ass high-speed, low-drag special forces. If it did come down to one versus the other, it would depend on a variety of factors. But no matter the end result, the Arbites would give a good account of themselves.

Sorry I may have missed it in the replies but are we talking about the Hard as nails local Arbites, or the one to a planet oh my god its and imperial Adeptus Arbite (destroyer of rouge imperial governors) carrying a bolter with target seeking ammo. or the relay old school power armour and grenade launcher adeptus Arbites?

interesting. As a cop with swat training, I would still give it to the scion. Special Forces are just that. Not to say that a good SWAT team wouldn't give them a run for their money and let them know they had been in a fight. They just aren't equipped like a SF unit is.

In combat, Scion.

The Arbitrators are well trained, but their skill set is not completely focussed on open warfare like the Scions. The area where the Arbitrators would of course shine (and probably would be better at) would be investigation, interrogation, and riot control.

A Scion's job on the other hand is almost purely combat oriented, I doubt they'd have much use for courses in crime scene analysis or investigating tax evasion. Maybe a little on interrogation though.

In hand to hand combat, I would probably give the Arbitrator the advantage. Scions are special forces, they have more limited uses of close combat tactics. If its like any modern day special force training, it focus mostly on disarming the oponnent and seize its weapon for your own usage and quick takedown scenario. An elite police officers needs to subdue ennemies for interrogation/trial, disarm armed opponent, knows his way in a brawl, fight rioters, etc. This require more knowledge and experience of close combat than what a special force operative needs or will experiment.