Switch Theme:

best assault-oriented army?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Poll
what is the best assault-oriented army?
chaos marines (vanilla, black legion, or crimson slaughter)
blood angels
khorne daemonkin
space wolves
genestealer cult
tyranids
orks
black templars/ vanilla marines
deathwatch
sisters of battle
chaos daemons
dark eldar
harlequins

View results
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So with traitor's hate and angel's blade coming out, i thought i would make a poll to see where they stand in relation to the other assaulty armies.

my vote is going for khorne daemonkin. I think their blood tithe mechanic really gives them some longevity and extra punch.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






If solo, than genestealer cult hands down. If with allies than probably super-friends.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So i see space wolves in the lead. What is it they have over other armies? Is it just wulfen and thubderwolves?
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






It depends on your opponent.

But Genestealer horde, wulfy space wulfs and khorne daemonkin beast shenanigans sure are going to rank high, followed up by knights and other High T multi wound things like dark eldar freaks and chaos spawns + lords.
If you include death stars then the answer is simple -> death stars whatever flavor you like the codex becomes quite irrelevant now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ancraig wrote:
So i see space wolves in the lead. What is it they have over other armies? Is it just wulfen and thubderwolves?


and characters on wulfs accompanied by cyber wulfs. But yeah thats their entire range.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/17 21:42:20


Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while 
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

Skitarrii --- Killclade formation for funzies.

   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




ancraig wrote:
So i see space wolves in the lead. What is it they have over other armies? Is it just wulfen and thubderwolves?


They are codex: Wulfen and TWC. They don't need anything else. Every other CC-oriented marine unit might as well just be deleted from the game. That's how much of a gap there is. DC are a damn joke compared to these guys.

Chaos demons are really awesome too. Not sure how they stack up vs genestealer cults.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/17 22:46:16


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





From my experience genestealer cult are the best overall because they are so extremely versatile and excell at objectives. Space wolves with ally help are probably the best due to god like death stars, but that's not just pure space wolves.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Where are grey noodles? Also nids can make a nasty gunline.
   
Made in au
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





It was called codex Thunderwolf for a reason before they got wulfen, who make thundercav even better, so yeah, spess woofs take it by a nose (hurhur) from the GSC I think. Honourable mention to KDK, but they're not quite there I'd say because while hounds are pretty good, T5 2W with a 3++ is the new benchmark and KDK just don't have that yet (until GW wise up and finally give us the skullcrushers we've been asking about for years now).

 Peregrine wrote:
What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
 
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






Wulfen murderpack and TWC up the line, chance for a 24inch move + 12inch charge.

Wulfen right behind with the best melee in the galaxy

OR

Arjac Shieldbrothers toughness 5 TH/SS termies with arjac, along with 2 psykers (wyrd brothers) for sanctuary (2+ invuln or 4+ FNP) Abit more casual but still BRUUUUTAL!


WOLF WOLF WOLF WOLF WOLF!!!

KDK is cool and fun, but they just dont compare at all to space wolves melee prowess :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/18 11:48:06


6000 World Eaters/Khorne  
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






you misspelled Wolf Wolves
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So, in the event that we were to disregard allies, and choose the strongest single codex, would it still be space wolves?

Why not blood angels? Sang guard and death company is pretty sweet. And having played chaos, i know that i 5 comes in amazing pretty frequently, as is s5 with furious charge. The furiosos and sanguinary powers seem pretty baller too.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




ancraig wrote:
So, in the event that we were to disregard allies, and choose the strongest single codex, would it still be space wolves?

Why not blood angels? Sang guard and death company is pretty sweet. And having played chaos, i know that i 5 comes in amazing pretty frequently, as is s5 with furious charge. The furiosos and sanguinary powers seem pretty baller too.


Sang guard and DC are both weak compared to Wulfen/TWC. Actually, sang guard and DC are both rather poor in the scheme of things. Too easy to gun them down like the little bitches that they are.

In practice, necrons are a better assault list than BA.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/18 18:51:48


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

In my experience, Daemons are the best by a significant margin. Or at the very least, Daemons are the only army in 40K that can successfully do an "only assault" army.
Even Space Wolves and GSC need some shooting in their army. And Nids have to have a good shooting base to succeed.
Another bonus for Daemons is that most other CC based armies rely on getting attacks that ignore armour saves, which Daemons are balanced not to have. So some of the advantages that other CC based armies have mean very little against Daemons.

Superfriends lists have better Death stars than Daemons can muster, but I really don't think having a good Death star makes you a CC army. Having a large core of your units dedicated to assault does. Daemons have many more viable options in this area than any other army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/18 19:00:08


   
Made in au
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





ancraig wrote:
So, in the event that we were to disregard allies, and choose the strongest single codex, would it still be space wolves?

Why not blood angels? Sang guard and death company is pretty sweet. And having played chaos, i know that i 5 comes in amazing pretty frequently, as is s5 with furious charge. The furiosos and sanguinary powers seem pretty baller too.


Have you even looked at the difference between the two? 2W, T5, 3++ Str5, rending, 4 attacks with optional str 10 powerfists, 12" move as cav beats the tar out of anything that BA have, and that's before you stick a Wulfen murderpack in there to buff them through the roof or obliterate everything with str8 AP2 at I5 on the charge and then again if you have the temerity to survive and kill one of them. Not to mention that they basically come tax free in the CotGW detatchment with a Wulfen Murderpack formation, there's nothing but the 2 best units by a long way in the dex with the HQ support that they need to survive a round of shooting before they reach your line and tear you a new poopchute.

 Peregrine wrote:
What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Roswell, GA

I always enjoyed watching the Carcharodons in action. Throw in Tyberos for some fun and str 5 with RAGE.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I want to hear from the 7 people who voted for Orks and get their reasoning on that one

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






SemperMortis wrote:
I want to hear from the 7 people who voted for Orks and get their reasoning on that one


To be fair, a Warboss with Da Lukky Stikk, 8 Nobs with Choppa/Shoota, and a Painboy is a lot of S5 WS5 attacks on the charge. It's expensive, but it's a pretty hearty group and annoying as all get out. I've tabled Necrons with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/18 22:02:15


~1.5k
Successful Trades: Ashrog (1), Iron35 (1), Rathryan (3), Leth (1), Eshm (1), Zeke48 (1), Gorkamorka12345 (1),
Melevolence (2), Ascalam (1), Swanny318, (1) ScootyPuffJunior, (1) LValx (1), Jim Solo (1), xSoulgrinderx (1), Reese (1), Pretre (1) 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




The answer is deathstar. Deathstars are the best CQC army, faction is largely irrelevant. Space wolves are probably the only army that can get away with not starring up, but why bother?


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

I think a lot of people vote based on a misunderstanding of the question.
It is asking what is the best assault-based ARMY, not the army with the best CC UNITS or Deathstars.

As I said, Daemons BY FAR have the best CC-based ARMY, while Space Wolves might have the best CC UNITs and Imperials may have the best Deathstars, etc.
And the armies that must have an element of shooting to be competitive (Nids, Most Marines Loyal or Chaos, Harlequins) should really not be on the list at all.

In 40K there is only 1 army that can complete with only CC units (Daemons)
And only 1 army that can do BOTH shooting and assault in equal measure (Necrons)
All other armies are either A) full-on shooting, B) mostly shooting with CC support, or C) use a Deathstar for their CC with shooting support

-

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/11/18 22:22:12


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Northridge, CA

Galef, where would KDK fit into your diagram? Would the fact that you really need to take a Gorepack, and in turn take Bikers, disqualify them from being a full CC army even if you kit out the bikers for CC?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 jreilly89 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I want to hear from the 7 people who voted for Orks and get their reasoning on that one


To be fair, a Warboss with Da Lukky Stikk, 8 Nobs with Choppa/Shoota, and a Painboy is a lot of S5 WS5 attacks on the charge. It's expensive, but it's a pretty hearty group and annoying as all get out. I've tabled Necrons with it.


Thats 279pt for 21wounds with 6+ armor and 5+FNP. You get a grand total of 36 S5 and 5 S6 attacks on the charge. NO AP.

How is that good again? They are group average T4 so they will literally die to almost everything in the game. So really your going to have to put them in a Trukk. So add another 35pts for a grand total of 314pts which will lose a number of models if it explodes so yeah that is a terrible unit. If you manage to beat your opponents with that kind of unit then your META is either VERY Casual or very bad.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 andysonic1 wrote:
Galef, where would KDK fit into your diagram? Would the fact that you really need to take a Gorepack, and in turn take Bikers, disqualify them from being a full CC army even if you kit out the bikers for CC?

I'd say KDK are closer, and can have an all Daemon list, so probably with Daemons in terms of CC-only based. Even a list heavy with Gore Packs is "cc" since the Bikes are fast and has shred on their HoW. Even Daemon Soulgrinders are considered CC units even though they have shooting.

I don't consider SW as an all assault army since even the lists that have tons of TWC also have stuff in Drop Pods mean to just shoot. Although they "can' have an all CC list, Daemons are better at it.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Conversely you could give them all Big Choppas and Eavy armor (except painboy) which would cost you another 81pts, but those 36 S5 attacks would turn into 28 S7 AP5 attacks. and the Warboss would be dishing out 4 S8 AP4 attacks.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






 jreilly89 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
I want to hear from the 7 people who voted for Orks and get their reasoning on that one


To be fair, a Warboss with Da Lukky Stikk, 8 Nobs with Choppa/Shoota, and a Painboy is a lot of S5 WS5 attacks on the charge. It's expensive, but it's a pretty hearty group and annoying as all get out. I've tabled Necrons with it.


Any ap2 weapon will cut right trough it.

Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while 
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake




"I want to hear from the 7 people who voted for Orks and get their reasoning on that one"

Choppas. Lots and lots and lots of choppas. Subtle, like a punch in the face.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





The Right

Double CAD of 12 units of 11 Ork boyz with nobs and Pks in trucks + a couple of units of nobs with a war boss and a pain boy, maybe a couple of Manz missiles to keep. Target priority nightmare.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Wopbopadobop wrote:
Double CAD of 12 units of 11 Ork boyz with nobs and Pks in trucks + a couple of units of nobs with a war boss and a pain boy, maybe a couple of Manz missiles to keep. Target priority nightmare.


12 units of 11Boyz with a Nob/PK in trukk (w/ram) = 1704pts
A single unit of Nobz with a warboss and painboy in a trukk = 199pts (No upgrades)

So before you even add in the Meganobz your already at 1903pts. That is an ENTIRE ARMY of CC that relies on 1 model in the boyz unit to do the work. God help you if your opponent can challenge you out.

against Tau or Eldar this would end in 2 turns. a Minimum unit of Scat Bikes can get 8 S6 hits. 3 pens 1 glance which means a 1/2 chance to explode a trukk Each round. Once out of that trukk those boyz are in for a beating.

No, Orks are no longer good at CC for a couple of reasons
1: We have a hard time getting into CC. Trukkz explode and Battlewagons are to expensive.
2: When we finally get into CC we have NO ARMOR so regular attacks are deadly
3: We have Initiative 2-3 for boyz and nobz so before we get to swing we suffer casualties.
4: NO INVULS. Meganobz, supposedly our BEST CC unit can't stand up to AP2 at all, and S8+ AP2 = a waste of 40pts.

The only way Orks are good at CC is if we are playing against BAD armies or we get ridiculously lucky.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






 Galef wrote:
Even Space Wolves and GSC need some shooting in their army.


GSC don't, really - some of the dudes have guns, but you tend not to fire with them unless they get a 5 to Ambush and have a good target. Cram as many Claw-Morphs into the list as possible and you need never fire a shot; S7 Rending at WS4 I4 with 4 attacks per model on the charge will tear through pretty much anything, and they're only 11pts a model. Even the Acolytes are pretty capable - their Rending is only S4 but they get 4 attacks on the charge too.

Plus they're one of the few CC armies that can actually get into CC unmolested thanks to Cult Ambush, and if you take an Insurrection the unit gets D6 models back each time it comes out of Ongoing Reserve.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/20 05:21:10


- - - - - - -
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: