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2016/11/19 04:58:13
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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Who were the worst three combatants out of the Primarchs?
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 Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'."
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2016/11/19 05:15:29
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Lorgar was famed to be an extremely poor combattant (he also was a relunctant general). Ferrus Manus wasn't exceptional either given his two relatively easy defeat against Fulgrim. He was also more of a craftsmen than a warrior. Alpharius, despite being a clever strategist, wasn't exactly an all star combattant. These would be my pick.
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2016/11/19 05:16:55
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Dakka Veteran
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Vulkan..
he was said to be the physically strongest, but there is hardly any combat feats of his
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2016/11/19 05:23:43
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Furious Fire Dragon
A forest
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I'd say Lorgar, and the Primarchs 2 and 11 because they sucked so much they are not even recorded in history
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2016/11/19 06:52:13
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
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Lorgar and Alpharius are definitely my first picks.
For a third choice I'd probably actually go for Mortation because he's mopey, sluggish and I don't like him much.
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3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)
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Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! |
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2016/11/19 08:24:26
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Battleship Captain
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Dephinitely lorgar (prior to him going all dalai ruinous powers, anyway) and alpharius (hell, a well-trained but unaugmented human bodyguard was arguably as good a swordsman). Not sure about the third.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/19 08:25:29
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
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2016/11/19 08:39:33
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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locarno24 wrote:alpharius (hell, a well-trained but unaugmented human bodyguard was arguably as good a swordsman).
Arguably though we may have never even seen Alpharius fight. Just saying. 
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/19 08:40:11
Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
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2016/11/19 15:32:12
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Cant think of Magnus ever really fighting all that well.
Lorgar gets beat up a lot.
Curze alternates between being a whimp and being completely unstoppable. I would definitely rank Curze on a bad day in the bottom 3.
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   Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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2016/11/19 16:41:46
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
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epronovost wrote:Lorgar was famed to be an extremely poor combattant (he also was a relunctant general). Ferrus Manus wasn't exceptional either given his two relatively easy defeat against Fulgrim. He was also more of a craftsmen than a warrior. Alpharius, despite being a clever strategist, wasn't exactly an all star combattant. These would be my pick.
Manus actually had Fulgrim beat - the only reason he lost was because the daemon possessing Fulgrim intervened. On top of that, Fulgrim is one of the most skilled combatants among the Primarchs, so I would definitely not put Manus anywhere near the bottom three, more likely top five.
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"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..." |
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2016/11/19 17:11:37
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Manus actually had Fulgrim beat - the only reason he lost was because the daemon possessing Fulgrim intervened.
I thought this was discussed in the other thread: Fulgrim was the superior swordsman and would have wiped the floor with Manus BUT Fulgrim still thought of Manus as one of his closest friends so was loath to do any serious harm to him. It was said that the daemon intervened to force Fulgrim to attack and kill Manus because Fulgrim didn't want to.
Correct me if I am wrong, I only skimmed through that thread.
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2016/11/19 17:41:36
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
Newcastle
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Some fair points made so far. I think many primarch fights would play out a bit differently to what we'd expect because of styles. A bit like boxing where the boxer beats the puncher, the puncher beats the swarmer but the swarmer beats the boxer.
It seems fair to rank the primarchs who don't specialise in direct fighting below the likes of Angron, Sanguinius and Fulgrim. Alpharius, Omegon, Lorgar, Magnus (without powers) etc.
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Hydra Dominatus |
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2016/11/19 20:17:15
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 mrhappyface wrote:
I thought this was discussed in the other thread: Fulgrim was the superior swordsman and would have wiped the floor with Manus BUT Fulgrim still thought of Manus as one of his closest friends so was loath to do any serious harm to him. It was said that the daemon intervened to force Fulgrim to attack and kill Manus because Fulgrim didn't want to.
Correct me if I am wrong, I only skimmed through that thread.
Fulgrim would have lost the second fight had the Daemon not boosted his strength beyond Ferrus'.
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2016/11/19 21:08:01
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Drakhun
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 Exergy wrote:Cant think of Magnus ever really fighting all that well.
Lorgar gets beat up a lot.
Curze alternates between being a whimp and being completely unstoppable. I would definitely rank Curze on a bad day in the bottom 3.
Magnus was pounding into Russ until he got hit in the eye.
Also, he could just teleport your entire force into the warp if he wanted.
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Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
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2016/11/19 21:44:47
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
Newcastle
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Was Magnus using psychic abilities in his fight with Russ? I can't remember if the sisters' null abilities blocked out his powers or not
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Hydra Dominatus |
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2016/11/19 21:54:37
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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 Snake Tortoise wrote:Was Magnus using psychic abilities in his fight with Russ? I can't remember if the sisters' null abilities blocked out his powers or not
It would seem Magnus was using psychic powers to subdue both the Space Wolves AND the sisters(!?) and prevented them from entering the final pyramid of Prospero. However, I believe it said that Russ was resistant to Magnus' magic so the red king was forced to simply beat Russ to a pulp with his bare hands.
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
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2014/11/19 22:29:16
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Lorgar is for sure up there. He never even wanted to be a great warrior.
After him I think Alpharius/Omegon. Its not there style to fight head on. It goes against everything they are.
Then I am thinking (Sadly) Rogal Dorn. He was never a melee beast nor did he have amazing equipment to make up for it. I also believe in a HH book he barely managed to beat Alpharius/Omegon and only then because he had help. At least I think that is how it went. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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2016/11/20 09:52:08
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Lorgar (pre-heresy), Alpharius, and Guilliman
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My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts 
2,000pts 
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2016/11/20 09:55:15
Subject: Re:List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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How Dorn reportedly died also shows his lack of prowess.
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My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
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2016/11/20 15:24:21
Subject: Re:List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Dakka Veteran
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2016/11/20 15:28:02
Subject: Re:List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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Uuuh, no... NO! Dorn... uh... went to live on a farm. He is very happy there.
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
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2016/11/20 15:55:39
Subject: Re:List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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mrhappyface wrote:
Uuuh, no... NO! Dorn... uh... went to live on a farm. He is very happy there.
hard farm labor without a hand.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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2016/11/20 16:03:19
Subject: Re:List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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Exergy wrote: mrhappyface wrote:
Uuuh, no... NO! Dorn... uh... went to live on a farm. He is very happy there.
hard farm labor without a farm hand helping him out. But he is fine, he has all his limbs, stop asking.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/20 16:03:57
Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
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2016/11/20 16:24:04
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Dakka Veteran
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Does Khan have any great combat feats at all?
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2016/11/20 17:08:13
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks
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What about Guilliman ? He is not a great fighter neither
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/20 22:11:41
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2016/11/22 05:30:57
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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Exergy wrote:
Curze alternates between being a whimp and being completely unstoppable. I would definitely rank Curze on a bad day in the bottom 3.
He did beat Rogal Dorn into a fething pulp with his bare hands before Chaos was in the picture.
Rogal Dorn was piss-his-pants scared of Cruze. Curze only makes bottom 3 if Dorn does as well.
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Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'."
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2016/11/22 05:50:06
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Dakka Veteran
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Didn't Dorn beat Alpharius?
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2016/11/22 07:51:06
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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 EmpNortonII wrote: Exergy wrote:
Curze alternates between being a whimp and being completely unstoppable. I would definitely rank Curze on a bad day in the bottom 3.
He did beat Rogal Dorn into a fething pulp with his bare hands before Chaos was in the picture.
Rogal Dorn was piss-his-pants scared of Cruze. Curze only makes bottom 3 if Dorn does as well.
I seem to remember him tearing Corux up too. But mix those with a bunch of times he gets beaten up. Curze is all over the place.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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2016/11/22 10:05:13
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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EmpNortonII wrote: Exergy wrote:
Curze alternates between being a whimp and being completely unstoppable. I would definitely rank Curze on a bad day in the bottom 3.
He did beat Rogal Dorn into a fething pulp with his bare hands before Chaos was in the picture.
Rogal Dorn was piss-his-pants scared of Cruze. Curze only makes bottom 3 if Dorn does as well.
Alexis Polux beat him, in the dark, the Night Haunters home. Alexis isn't even a Primarch. Curze hasn't actually even killed a Primarch outright, the one he got comes back alive .. Dóh! And even then, when it comes down to an actual fight he doesn't fair too well against Vulkan. Lion is a draw. You can say that he went toe to toe with Guilliman and the Lion but Guiliiman went toe to toe with Lorgar and Angron. Angron, the biggest combat monster of them all.
It all comes down to context. We don't know who is the best, we don't have a tally of matches in the practice cages or the exact circumstances of a lot of the fights that we do know about. It also comes down to who your favourite Primarch is.
You say Rogal Dorn was beat by Curze, I agree, he was. But was it a fair fight? Was it even a fight or an unexpected assault. You could quote the fight between Russ and Angron, was it truly a win for Angron or was Russ holding back to try and get his lesson across. Would Fulgrim have survived the fight with Ferrus Manus if it weren't for the intervention of the Laeran Daemon. Was it Alpharius that was stabbed by the Lucifer Black or was it Sheed, Pech or Herzog or another Alpha Legionnaire.
We don't know how Alpharius would have faired against another Primarch because we don't know of any other feats achieved by Alpharius against another Primarch.
I don't think it's as clean cut in a lot of cases and comes down to the circumstance.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/22 10:12:57
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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2016/11/22 10:44:34
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
New Zealand
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 Pilau Rice wrote:
You say Rogal Dorn was beat by Curze, I agree, he was. But was it a fair fight? Was it even a fight or an unexpected assault.
A fair fight benefits some fighting styles over others. Curze fights dirty, Magnus uses mind bullets, a fair fight only benefits some of the primarchs. The worst primarch is the one that the hack writer needs to use as a meat puppet at any given time. People say Magnus was second in power to the Emperor, ahead of even Malcador - who concealed a moon with his mind. If there was any consistency Magnus should be able to wipe the floor with all 19 of his brothers at once.
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2016/11/22 11:00:50
Subject: List the bottom 3 Primarchs in terms of combat ability
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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 MarsNZ wrote: Pilau Rice wrote:
You say Rogal Dorn was beat by Curze, I agree, he was. But was it a fair fight? Was it even a fight or an unexpected assault.
A fair fight benefits some fighting styles over others. Curze fights dirty, Magnus uses mind bullets, a fair fight only benefits some of the primarchs. The worst primarch is the one that the hack writer needs to use as a meat puppet at any given time. People say Magnus was second in power to the Emperor, ahead of even Malcador - who concealed a moon with his mind. If there was any consistency Magnus should be able to wipe the floor with all 19 of his brothers at once.
Yeah ok. but what I am saying is can you use a sucker punch situation as an example of combat prowess when the other isn't fighting. The situation might have been different entirely if Dorn was expecting Curze to hadoken him after his haranguing. Like you say with Magnus, if he had wanted to smite Russ with his pimp fist would Russ and even the wolves have walked away from Prospero. It's context and circumstance. You can't truly judge combat ability on the examples that we have. Sure, it's all we have to go by but is it enough to form a true top and bottom 3. I would say that they are all as capable as each other, for arguments sake 
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/22 11:04:20
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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