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So I mentioned earlier, this is really a bigger event than Magnus coming back

What does the Lion coming back mean for the future of the Imperium. How will the high lords of Terra react, how will the populace react. etc. etc.


I used to think Guilliman would of had the biggest influence coming back of the loyalists primarchs because of his sheer organizational genius

but The Lion is a genius as well

before this last month or two i'd say this all sounded like wishful thinking bs. i mean, it still does, but, that doesn't mean it's not going to happen with this new world order GW.

work out, let's see where it goes.

Well, that's unfortunate. I was, perhaps naively, still holding out hope GW would have the good sense to stop their nonsense before they started reviving Loyalist Primarchs, but it seems they really have managed to forget why 40K was unique and interesting and are determined to turn it into a Big Supermen Punchy Face setting.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well, that's unfortunate. I was, perhaps naively, still holding out hope GW would have the good sense to stop their nonsense before they started reviving Loyalist Primarchs, but it seems they really have managed to forget why 40K was unique and interesting and are determined to turn it into a Big Supermen Punchy Face setting.

one primarch coming back doesn't make it "Big Supermen Punchy Face"

i mean GW kept them alive for a reason, that someday they might return.....Russ said he would come back at "Wolf Time"

I highly doubt they will bring all of the possible loyalists back...im thinking 1-2 at the most to be honest

So if Lion El Johnson (perhaps the most poorly named character in all of Sci Fi) is awake does that mean that 40K's End Times have arrived?

Age of the Emperor is just around the corner....

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
So if Lion El Johnson (perhaps the most poorly named character in all of Sci Fi) is awake does that mean that 40K's End Times have arrived?

Age of the Emperor is just around the corner....

I highly dobut GW will do a reboot like they did for Fantasy

I highly doubted we'd ever get a Harlequin/Adeptus Mechanicus/Deathwatch/Genestealer Cult/Chaos Legions Codex.

And we have those.

LightKing wrote:

I highly dobut GW will do a reboot like they did for Fantasy

Well I never expected GW to obliterate nearly 30 years of world building yet they did so its best to keep an open mind.

 Crimson wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Horus Heresy novels.

I know they're a source for a lot of nonsense, but could you be a bit more specific? It is the first time I've heard this particular claim.

So mutants and psychics and techno-sorcery are fine, but this guy living for a long time is where you draw the line?

Out of all the stuff in the 40k background, that seems a weird thing to get bent out of shape about.

LightKing wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well, that's unfortunate. I was, perhaps naively, still holding out hope GW would have the good sense to stop their nonsense before they started reviving Loyalist Primarchs, but it seems they really have managed to forget why 40K was unique and interesting and are determined to turn it into a Big Supermen Punchy Face setting.

one primarch coming back doesn't make it "Big Supermen Punchy Face"

i mean GW kept them alive for a reason, that someday they might return.....Russ said he would come back at "Wolf Time"

I highly doubt they will bring all of the possible loyalists back...im thinking 1-2 at the most to be honest

If you really believe they're going to stop at one or two now they've committed, you're even more naive than I was in hoping they wouldn't go there in the first place. If they bring back a Loyalist, that's that, GW have painted themselves into a corner, because either they honour the existing fluff you point out and actually make this the for-reals 40K End Times and start bringing back all the players who've been foreshadowed as being there, plus blowing up important planets, wiping out significant characters and factions etc as they did during WHF End Times(note; I'm not suggesting they're going to follow exactly the same pattern, they will doubtless take a boiling frog approach and stretch it out over several years rather than "Bing, bang, boom - everyone's dead", but that's the direction the narrative has to take if they do End Times of any sort, fast or slow), or they break all the narrative promises that have been made over the years and bring back Primarchs without actually doing any of the things Primarchs coming back are supposed to be the catalyst for.

Either way, the setting is going to narrow its focus and begin to resemble 30K in some regards(the least entertaining ones IMO, but the whole point of 30K was supposed to be to give those kinds of stories a place where they fit in thematically, since GW used to understand that they don't in 40K), with the teeming masses and their struggles being insignificant background to the clash of titans/fate of the galaxy/Big Supermen Punchy Face(delete as applicable based on which option GW choose) nonsense. Any SM subfaction that gets a Primarch back will be defined by that Primarch's story from then on, and the Imperium as a whole will be defined by their collective story as will Chaos by the Daemon Primarchs. Your brave Guardsmen or dashing Inquisitor can defeat all the impossible odds and stand every last stand they can find, none of it will matter because in the end it will come down to a "dramatic" Big Supermen Punchy Face battle.

Blergh.

I do not play the game, so as a painter I look forward to any kind of these high level character models (if they are not the size of a demon primarch) ...

Yodhrin, you made one mistake in your analysis.

Unlike 30k, is not just IoM vs chaos. There are other players involved, some as small as the tau, others as massive as the necron and nids.
The primes alone, do not make the story any more, as they got competitors all over the place, and not everyone is playing the same game.

Sad Panda said that the Tau plot and the end times of 40k plot is in motion now. It's been speculated to death where it will go. I imagine we'll see at least 2 more campaigns next year possibly 3 of two books each and large model releases to accompany them. Also the big 8th edition at one point as well.

Also my friend is not taking this well since he is a huge Dark Angels fan. I am laughing my ass off naturally.

So its gonna become a superhero battle royale now? Makes sense.

I freakin' love it! I understand this change isn't for everyone, but the idea of the Primarchs returning just makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside!

The heroes, the myths, the legends I have always read, the tiny bits of lore giving the idea they'd one day return / wake / heal, the prophecies, GODS, it's all coming together, maybe, just maybe, the End Times will actually end this time.

It's gonna be sweet, sweet carnage and I can't wait for the books using this new lore <3 . Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, all the shitstorms that already exist and a glorious battle royale of Primarchs.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
So its gonna become a superhero battle royale now? Makes sense.

How else do you one-up a setting that's already 0.00001s before midnight and has ridiculous power-levels in-game?

LightKing wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well, that's unfortunate. I was, perhaps naively, still holding out hope GW would have the good sense to stop their nonsense before they started reviving Loyalist Primarchs, but it seems they really have managed to forget why 40K was unique and interesting and are determined to turn it into a Big Supermen Punchy Face setting.

one primarch coming back doesn't make it "Big Supermen Punchy Face"

i mean GW kept them alive for a reason, that someday they might return.....Russ said he would come back at "Wolf Time"

I highly doubt they will bring all of the possible loyalists back...im thinking 1-2 at the most to be honest

Initial primarch wave is 4 primarch back and that's no quarantee they stop.

And originally 40k was supposed to be setting for players to make their own stories, not story being force feed and screw the player stories...

tneva82 wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well, that's unfortunate. I was, perhaps naively, still holding out hope GW would have the good sense to stop their nonsense before they started reviving Loyalist Primarchs, but it seems they really have managed to forget why 40K was unique and interesting and are determined to turn it into a Big Supermen Punchy Face setting.

one primarch coming back doesn't make it "Big Supermen Punchy Face"

i mean GW kept them alive for a reason, that someday they might return.....Russ said he would come back at "Wolf Time"

I highly doubt they will bring all of the possible loyalists back...im thinking 1-2 at the most to be honest

Initial primarch wave is 4 primarch back and that's no quarantee they stop.

And originally 40k was supposed to be setting for players to make their own stories, not story being force feed and screw the player stories...

No one is forcing you to stop your current stories. Take the example of RPGs: Nothing stops you from using a previous version of a setting or your own setting just because the publishers made a new book that has a crazy event you don't like.

I wonder how they're going to play Luther, at the end of their fight he shakes off the influence of chaos and doesn't kill that Lion and surrenders mumbling about the watchers forgiving him, but now apparently bonkers. I mean, if he's got nothing going upstairs, how will he perform on the table?

Also wondering how the Chapter is gonna react to the Lion just waltzing out of the rock like "I was here all along!"

The current setting is pretty tapped out in terms of what can be told. I want it to advance then pause for awhile to see the new sights. Maybe someday we'll get the full end times.

 Ir0njack wrote:
I wonder how they're going to play Luther, at the end of their fight he shakes off the influence of chaos and doesn't kill that Lion and surrenders mumbling about the watchers forgiving him, but now apparently bonkers. I mean, if he's got nothing going upstairs, how will he perform on the table?

Also wondering how the Chapter is gonna react to the Lion just waltzing out of the rock like "I was here all along!"

Fairly certain the Dark Angels will know it's him.

 Ir0njack wrote:
I wonder how they're going to play Luther, at the end of their fight he shakes off the influence of chaos and doesn't kill that Lion and surrenders mumbling about the watchers forgiving him, but now apparently bonkers. I mean, if he's got nothing going upstairs, how will he perform on the table?

Also wondering how the Chapter is gonna react to the Lion just waltzing out of the rock like "I was here all along!"

Perhaps he truly is sick in the head and will side with the Fallen.

The end times!

WONDERFUL.

Look how brilliant an idea that was for Fantasy.

GW be like...



"They'll never stop 40k!
Have no fears we've got stories for years, like
Ferrus Manus becomes a robot,
Maybe the Emperor gets a cell phone,
Has Russ ever owned a bear?"

 Gamgee wrote:
The current setting is pretty tapped out in terms of what can be told. I want it to advance then pause for awhile to see the new sights. Maybe someday we'll get the full end times.

The current setting isn't tapped out as there are vast regions of space with untold stories and multitude of armies out there that have barely been touched upon. Plus there is the freedom to make up any number of new chapters/regiments/waaaghs/etc or even make up new named characters for existing forces. You can even go back to an earlier time if needed with the only factions that would work for being the Tau and Tyranids to a lesser extend due their arrival being more time restrictive. Personally I think the end times stuff is directly related to the success of 30k so GW wants to push the clock up to let the Primarchs return.

Ruin wrote:
GW be like...

Has Russ ever owned a bear?"

And thus, Magnus the Red was royally fethed.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well, that's unfortunate. I was, perhaps naively, still holding out hope GW would have the good sense to stop their nonsense before they started reviving Loyalist Primarchs, but it seems they really have managed to forget why 40K was unique and interesting and are determined to turn it into a Big Supermen Punchy Face setting.

one primarch coming back doesn't make it "Big Supermen Punchy Face"

i mean GW kept them alive for a reason, that someday they might return.....Russ said he would come back at "Wolf Time"

I highly doubt they will bring all of the possible loyalists back...im thinking 1-2 at the most to be honest

Initial primarch wave is 4 primarch back and that's no quarantee they stop.

And originally 40k was supposed to be setting for players to make their own stories, not story being force feed and screw the player stories...

No one is forcing you to stop your current stories. Take the example of RPGs: Nothing stops you from using a previous version of a setting or your own setting just because the publishers made a new book that has a crazy event you don't like.

That's a crock and always has been, for at least two reasons.

First, because there's a difference between something being hypothetically possible and the practical reality, and the practical reality is that the "official" story, the "official" setting, the "official" rules are the baseline experience and the one most people will have. Plenty of folk don't have a small, regular group of like-minded players they can retreat into their own little world with, they have to go to clubs and stores and play in the same sandbox as everybody else, and that's invariably a sandbox bounded by the official product as it is exists at that moment, because wargaming isn't an RPG, you can't just pull out some pen & paper with the rulebook and play, you have to spend huge chunks of cash and time to create an army and most people are going to do that with maximum value in mind, ie making sure they can use it as often and easily as possible, ie they'll build it within the confines of the official setting that everyone uses as a common frame of reference.

Second, because not wanting the story to advance and in so doing change the setting doesn't mean people don't want any new content at all, which is what freezing your own little headcanon version of the universe in amber and ignoring what GW put out means. I can putter about in the Warhammer World as it was prior to the End Times as much as I like, in theory, but even if the first issue wasn't a problem, I'd still be playing a setting that probably won't ever see investment and development by GW again. They're never going to flesh out Araby or tell us the history of Grand Cathay or provide us with Indan miniatures, and creating whole new chunks of background as fanfiction just serves to even further isolate your own little version of the setting from other gamers you might meet.

More than that though, it's a complete waste. 40K has 10,000 years of history, the "story" of the setting has already been told(or rather, is assumed to have been) - the present day of 40K is the penultimate chapter of the final book in the series, it's the moments before the Rebel fleet arrives to battle the second Death Star, and the conclusion has already been throughly foreshadowed, so either they pay off that foreshadowing and give us a final and expected conclusion(ie, the Rebels win, Luke defeats the Dark Side, Han gets the girl - or in 40K's case, the Primarchs come back, everything goes to gak, and the galaxy dies burning in a four-way cage match between Chaos, Necrons, 'Nids, and whatever else is left to band together in a futile effort to defeat those three catastrophic forces) and the whole thing is over and done with, or they don't and everyone ends up feeling cheated by the inevitable deus ex machina. And before anyone tries it, don't give me the "oh well they can just advance the story a leeetle bit" line, because that's also a crock. Why? Well, either they swap things around a little but don't change anything functionally, in which case those demanding story advancement will remain unsatisfied and continue demanding, or they'll move it on significantly but stop again at two minutes to midnight instead of five, which merely creates a new status quo every bit as "stagnant" as the status quo ante and in a couple of years people will begin demanding they advance it again. So they edge forward and stop at one minute, then thirty seconds, then ten seconds etc etc - in the end, they still either have to end it or renege on their narrative promises.

40K cannot be an advancing story and remain 40K in any meaningful sense, because the setting was designed originally to sit right before the end of the story.

It's somewhat of an overreaction. Everything is basically the same except instead of being asleep in the rock, Lionel is up and having his own story around the fallen.

Vorian wrote:
It's somewhat of an overreaction. Everything is basically the same except instead of being asleep in the rock, Lionel is up and having his own story around the fallen.

It's really not. You can continue to obfuscate the background implications of a loyalist Primarch returning or see that this will completely feth up 40k's overarching theme.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
So its gonna become a superhero battle royale now? Makes sense.

How else do you one-up a setting that's already 0.00001s before midnight and has ridiculous power-levels in-game?

Easy, you end it and start afresh ala AoS.