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Still didn't address the copy-paste example error regarding vehicle cover saves, but meh.

So ICs can't join MC units and IC MCs can't join any units? Does this mean that IC MCs can't join MC units?

A couple of changes they made that affect me:
Passengers aren't forced to Snap Shotguns if their Transport Jinks (yay for my Scout Squads getting their ability to do drive-bys back!)
Blast and Template weapons with Sky fire cannot hit Flyers or Flying MCs/GCs (well that sucks)
MCs and GCs can no longer benefit from a toe in cover (hooray!)

Edit: NVM Can't read pink.

SemperAlius wrote:
So it seems like Battle Brothers are allowed to deploy in Allied transports again? I don't see anything that would prevent them in this, and I figured it would be in the Core FAQ?

BB's cannot. It's in there. The only way to deploy in a transport from a different detachment is if you share the same faction (i.e. SM's can cross deploy in faction pods but SW's can't deploy in SM pods).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So ICs can't join MC units and IC MCs can't join any units? Does this mean that IC MCs can't join MC units?

Independent Characters have never been allowed to join a unit containing Monstrous Creatures (main rulebook, first paragraph on page 166).

Uh now we need a FAQ for what a "reroll" is then.. Since UNITS make charge rolls and once you re-roll something the first result is gone.

There is no such thing as a single model using a different charge roll compared to its unit.... until now!

 Kirasu wrote:
Uh now we need a FAQ for what a "reroll" is then.. Since UNITS make charge rolls and once you re-roll something the first result is gone.

There is no such thing as a single model using a different charge roll compared to its unit.... until now!

And this is complicated further by the FAQ not addressing the "charge at the rate of the slowest model" phrase in the BRB. So it would appear that you may re-roll for Jump-Infantry, but can never surpass the original roll for the closest model (so what is the point?). I suspect this was only included to allow Jump Infantry to get into base contact for HoW

MCs not getting "toe in cover" is a good choice.

-

"Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins."

This is good and fair for consistency with vehicles, but it reaaaally screws Nids over. As if we weren't monobuild enough already, now any footslogging MCs will be lucky if they ever get a cover save, which they really relied on.

Benlisted wrote:
"Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins."

This is good and fair for consistency with vehicles, but it reaaaally screws Nids over. As if we weren't monobuild enough already, now any footslogging MCs will be lucky if they ever get a cover save, which they really relied on.

Just means that Venomthorpes will see more action since Shroud gives a 5+ cover even out in the open.

Benlisted wrote:
"Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins."

This is good and fair for consistency with vehicles, but it reaaaally screws Nids over. As if we weren't monobuild enough already, now any footslogging MCs will be lucky if they ever get a cover save, which they really relied on.

I'm not too familiar with the size discrepancy - is it possible to get a cover save on MCs with things like Gants and Gaunts?

 Galef wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Doesn't look like they took any feedback, it's still a bunch of vague non-answers and contradictory things.

Q: Are passengers in Jinking Transports forced to fire Snap Shots?
A: No.

No to which. needing to fire or having to Snap Shot?? This doesn't answer anything.

No, the passengers are not forced to Snap fire
I.e: The passengers are NOT forced to fire Snap shots if the Transport is Jinking

All Dark Eldar players are rejoicing right now

The rejoicing has begun! I can start playing my DE again.

 Galef wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
"Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins."

This is good and fair for consistency with vehicles, but it reaaaally screws Nids over. As if we weren't monobuild enough already, now any footslogging MCs will be lucky if they ever get a cover save, which they really relied on.

Just means that Venomthorpes will see more action since Shroud gives a 5+ cover even out in the open.

The Venom/Malanthrope is already in every army with footslogging Nids - it's a straight nerf, as you were mad not to stick a toe in cover for a 2-3+. Sure that was a bit cheesy, but it kept them viable - without it our MCs are actually incredibly squishy in today's game.

Messiah wrote:

The rejoicing has begun! I can start playing my DE again.

Just be aware that they also reversed the draft ruling about Blasts and Jink. If you weren't targeted, you cannot declare Jink.
But I am ok with that since you can spread out to avoid it, unlike the previous "Jink or die, but your dudes inside are worthless either way"

-

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

MCs and GCs can no longer benefit from a toe in cover (hooray!)

Oh, where's that?

 Insectum7 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

MCs and GCs can no longer benefit from a toe in cover (hooray!)

Oh, where's that?

"Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins."

It appears they removed the entry from the draft where models couldn't move through walls?

Benlisted wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

MCs and GCs can no longer benefit from a toe in cover (hooray!)

Oh, where's that?

"Q: Some pieces of terrain (woods, ruins, craters, etc.) provide a cover save to a models even if they are not 25% obscured. Does this really include large models like Monstrous Creatures?
A: No. Just like Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Gargantuan Creatures are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins."

Sweeeeeet. TY!

I've been clamoring about that for years.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
It appears they removed the entry from the draft where models couldn't move through walls?

they changed to yes

I'm happy with the tweaks to the Draft FAQ. Hopefully, the Drop Pod Issue will be cleared up when the Space Marine FAQ hits.

INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS
Q: Infiltrate rules state that an Independent Character without
Infiltrate cannot join a squad of Infiltrators. Does this mean a
squad that is actively Infiltrating or just any unit that has the
Infiltrate rule? This matters for things like Outflank (granted
freely by the Infiltrate rule) and Infiltrate units that have
Deep Strike.
A: An Independent Character without the Infiltrate
special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during
deployment, whether they are Infiltrating, Deep Striking
or Outflanking. They are free to join units as they wish
after deployment

---

Well, this kills the argument of using Shadowsun deepstriking with Crisis, as there is a 'vice-versa' line in the Infiltrate special rule, per the old faq (and still kept in this one)

 Vector Strike wrote:
INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS
Q: Infiltrate rules state that an Independent Character without
Infiltrate cannot join a squad of Infiltrators. Does this mean a
squad that is actively Infiltrating or just any unit that has the
Infiltrate rule? This matters for things like Outflank (granted
freely by the Infiltrate rule) and Infiltrate units that have
Deep Strike.
A: An Independent Character without the Infiltrate
special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during
deployment, whether they are Infiltrating, Deep Striking
or Outflanking. They are free to join units as they wish
after deployment

---

Well, this kills the argument of using Shadowsun deepstriking with Crisis, as there is a 'vice-versa' line in the Infiltrate special rule, per the old faq (and still kept in this one)

How? That vice versa in there only means that a unit of infiltrators cannot join an IC without infiltrate during deployment.

Page 166 – Independent Character, Independent Characters and Infiltrate
Change this sentence to read:
‘An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa.’

The main sentence says that an IC without Infiltrate cannot join a unit of Infiltrators. Are you telling me that the vice versa means 'A unit with Infiltrate cannot join an IC without Infiltrate', but not 'An IC with Infiltrate cannot join a unit without Infiltrate'?

It's almost impossible for a round base to come in contact with TWO separate units such as the shortest charge distance is EXACTLY equal. This has been a question during every edition, same problem still arises which is "math"

...except that pre-measuring exists.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Page 166 – Independent Character, Independent Characters and Infiltrate
Change this sentence to read:
‘An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa.’

The main sentence says that an IC without Infiltrate cannot join a unit of Infiltrators. Are you telling me that the vice versa means 'A unit with Infiltrate cannot join an IC without Infiltrate', but not 'An IC with Infiltrate cannot join a unit without Infiltrate'?

There is nothing in their wording which prevents it from being the case either way.

 Mousemuffins wrote:

It's almost impossible for a round base to come in contact with TWO separate units such as the shortest charge distance is EXACTLY equal. This has been a question during every edition, same problem still arises which is "math"

...except that pre-measuring exists.

What he means is two round bases would need to be equidistant from the single model on a round base charging from a model directly in front and in between both minatures for it to charge the shortest distance possible o its primary target and even then you are still moving 1-2mm more by going in between both models instead of directly to one model and thus you are not taking the shortest route. Pre measuring doesn't change this. That's why he said math.

I probably wrote that explanation horribly however leman Russ executioners are back

Also I'm in the 1 grenade camp is a good thing. Vehicles are no longer red headed step children and every grenade Unit isn't anti tank anymore.

Largely pretty sensible, though still some questions that should not have been dignified with answering.

As a Dark Eldar player I'm not that bothered about the change to jink and embarked units, I tend to move my Venoms more than 6", forcing the occupants to snap shoot, anyway. The only time I use raiders is for transporting Grotesques.

Glad they kept the whole 1 grenade per phase thing.

 Imateria wrote:
Largely pretty sensible, though still some questions that should not have been dignified with answering.

As a Dark Eldar player I'm not that bothered about the change to jink and embarked units, I tend to move my Venoms more than 6", forcing the occupants to snap shoot, anyway. The only time I use raiders is for transporting Grotesques.

Glad they kept the whole 1 grenade per phase thing.

Funny, as a 30k player we are all lamenting the grenade FAQ and debating ignoring it. Why spend so many points on a 20 man unit to have melta bombs when only one guy can use one per phase? I don't think Forge World intended for that to be the case when they pointed it up.

I do however, 100% agree that some of those questions were cringingly obvious.

I liked the question about having an all-building army

Kijamon wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Largely pretty sensible, though still some questions that should not have been dignified with answering.

As a Dark Eldar player I'm not that bothered about the change to jink and embarked units, I tend to move my Venoms more than 6", forcing the occupants to snap shoot, anyway. The only time I use raiders is for transporting Grotesques.

Glad they kept the whole 1 grenade per phase thing.

Funny, as a 30k player we are all lamenting the grenade FAQ and debating ignoring it. Why spend so many points on a 20 man unit to have melta bombs when only one guy can use one per phase? I don't think Forge World intended for that to be the case when they pointed it up.

I do however, 100% agree that some of those questions were cringingly obvious.

It wouldn't matter so much for 30K, everyone gets it or no one gets it since they're all marines. It's a bit different in 40K though, I mean it's worrying enough when a tac unit can punch my Venom out of existence anyway, Krak grenades makes it a foregone conclusion and they get them for free, and the number of factions that has access to this anti vehicle/MC grenades is very small. I mean my DE can take Haywire grenades, but they're useless against MC's and only one model in a unit can get them.

Kijamon wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Largely pretty sensible, though still some questions that should not have been dignified with answering.

As a Dark Eldar player I'm not that bothered about the change to jink and embarked units, I tend to move my Venoms more than 6", forcing the occupants to snap shoot, anyway. The only time I use raiders is for transporting Grotesques.

Glad they kept the whole 1 grenade per phase thing.

Funny, as a 30k player we are all lamenting the grenade FAQ and debating ignoring it. Why spend so many points on a 20 man unit to have melta bombs when only one guy can use one per phase? I don't think Forge World intended for that to be the case when they pointed it up.

If that's really 'what they meant all along' (which I don't believe), then clearly they neglected to explain it to the FW guys down the hall writing book after book. And playing the game, because they do.

But I'm moving on. It saves me points in my jetbike squads anyway. *shrug*