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Made in au
Lady of the Lake






 Pouncey wrote:
 n0t_u wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
 n0t_u wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
 n0t_u wrote:
Stronger the daemon is the larger it is usually. I think the size is somewhat related to their power level in general as they're energy based beings likely while in the materium.


So I have a shapeshifting ability, but it only makes me 15 feet tall at most, so human-sized soldiers don't have a tough time killing me, and I can't go small enough to be unnoticed enough to act like a spy.

The Chaos Gods hate me, don't they? They just wanted to see my reaction when I realized that I have a useless superpower.


The changeling is cool though, almost got rid of the space wolves for us.


Not through his shapeshifting powers though.


Through his magical shapeshifting powers to appear as Sammael and convince Azrael of the wolves.


This conversation is about the Primarch changing size.

Can this Primarch guy also look like whoever he wants to in addition to becoming bigger or smaller?


No idea.

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




A skilled enough daemon probably could go ant-siized. Certainly wouldn't be the most absurd warp-based power the game and setting has ever had.

But then I advocate for a very broad and personal interpretation of what 40k is and prefer guidelines to be based on themes rather than strict mechanics.
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 n0t_u wrote:
No idea.


That means he's never done it before, otherwise you would know.

So he can't.

So it's useless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rosebuddy wrote:
A skilled enough daemon probably could go ant-siized. Certainly wouldn't be the most absurd warp-based power the game and setting has ever had.

But then I advocate for a very broad and personal interpretation of what 40k is and prefer guidelines to be based on themes rather than strict mechanics.


If I could go ant-sized, I'd act as a spy instead of a combatant, since I'd be more useful that way.

Now imagine what an ant-sized model would look like on a base.

Are you imagining a tiny speck on that base smaller than basing material? If you're imagining anything bigger, your imagination isn't working right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/27 13:33:56


 
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






 Pouncey wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
A skilled enough daemon probably could go ant-siized. Certainly wouldn't be the most absurd warp-based power the game and setting has ever had.

But then I advocate for a very broad and personal interpretation of what 40k is and prefer guidelines to be based on themes rather than strict mechanics.


If I could go ant-sized, I'd act as a spy instead of a combatant, since I'd be more useful that way.

Now imagine what an ant-sized model would look like on a base.

Are you imagining a tiny speck on that base smaller than basing material? If you're imagining anything bigger, your imagination isn't working right.


What if it's a Tzeentchian model, you'd be looking for that tiny spec on the base for ages only to eventually find out that the model is the base instead.

   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.

In regards to the OP's boycott idea, I have no plans to buy Magnus. GW is always finding new ways to screw up TS and nothing about this release convinces me otherwise.

I own about 60 TS models that sit in a dusty box. Hard to shake the feeling that anything happening with them now is just going to be undone the next time someone feels the need for a change in mechanics.

I would hate to have a $100+ model sitting around with no practical use in the game. Maybe I get a year of use out of him, then he becomes a pretty statue. No thanks.

   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 n0t_u wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
A skilled enough daemon probably could go ant-siized. Certainly wouldn't be the most absurd warp-based power the game and setting has ever had.

But then I advocate for a very broad and personal interpretation of what 40k is and prefer guidelines to be based on themes rather than strict mechanics.


If I could go ant-sized, I'd act as a spy instead of a combatant, since I'd be more useful that way.

Now imagine what an ant-sized model would look like on a base.

Are you imagining a tiny speck on that base smaller than basing material? If you're imagining anything bigger, your imagination isn't working right.


What if it's a Tzeentchian model, you'd be looking for that tiny spec on the base for ages only to eventually find out that the model is the base instead.


So basically I can make an army of these things by just buying bases and no models?
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

 n0t_u wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
A skilled enough daemon probably could go ant-siized. Certainly wouldn't be the most absurd warp-based power the game and setting has ever had.

But then I advocate for a very broad and personal interpretation of what 40k is and prefer guidelines to be based on themes rather than strict mechanics.


If I could go ant-sized, I'd act as a spy instead of a combatant, since I'd be more useful that way.

Now imagine what an ant-sized model would look like on a base.

Are you imagining a tiny speck on that base smaller than basing material? If you're imagining anything bigger, your imagination isn't working right.


What if it's a Tzeentchian model, you'd be looking for that tiny spec on the base for ages only to eventually find out that the model is the base instead.


Bee Movie = Counts As Tzeentch Daemons?


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 techsoldaten wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.

In regards to the OP's boycott idea, I have no plans to buy Magnus. GW is always finding new ways to screw up TS and nothing about this release convinces me otherwise.

I own about 60 TS models that sit in a dusty box. Hard to shake the feeling that anything happening with them now is just going to be undone the next time someone feels the need for a change in mechanics.

I would hate to have a $100+ model sitting around with no practical use in the game. Maybe I get a year of use out of him, then he becomes a pretty statue. No thanks.


So it's like how human-sized raid bosses in WoW are like 30 feet tall? So they can be clearly visible for gameplay purposes even though in the lore they're just normal size?

Seems plausible to me.
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

 Ashiraya wrote:
 kronk wrote:
I just ordered 3 Magnus so I can use all three heads. I will name the Cyclopes one Traditio.


Do it. Buy magnets for them too, just for the sake of it.
Ol Magnets Magnus 3 face!
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Leicester

Op please shut up
Most balanced lists can take him out
Dark eldar will mince him via poison
My Mech Suit tau will kill him through mass pulse fire backed up by broadsides
My fists successor will pod in and blast him off the board with sternguard.
Oh and please keep him in reserve and both my space marines and tau will kill the rest of your army
   
Made in be
Wicked Warp Spider





 techsoldaten wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.


With the due respect, this seems delusional. GW never, ever had this kind of attention to detail and their rule interaction, is poor, sloppy, and wonky.

I doubt that they decided the size of that action figure for any reason different from "it looks right".

Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.


With the due respect, this seems delusional. GW never, ever had this kind of attention to detail and their rule interaction, is poor, sloppy, and wonky.

I doubt that they decided the size of that action figure for any reason different from "it looks right".


You're probably right. Clearly their models are designed to look cool with no effort into making the design practical.
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker




If the points cost is correct then I personally don't see much of an issue. He'll kill 1-2 units a turn at most (shoots one, assaults one) which is no problem at all, barring some very clever placement on Magnus' side and some very stupid placement on his opponent's. Seeing as he's not a GMC you can tarpit him into oblivion. His shooting is, again, a blast or a beam. Woop de doo, he gets to zap like 5 models a turn. TERRIFYING.

Meanwhile he eats up half your points that could be obsecing objectives.

5 completed trades in the Swap Shop and counting

The IoM pretty much survives on human life, on the whole, being totally expendable. Which is ironic, seeing as it is to save humanity.  
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





ted234521 wrote:
If the points cost is correct then I personally don't see much of an issue. He'll kill 1-2 units a turn at most (shoots one, assaults one) which is no problem at all, barring some very clever placement on Magnus' side and some very stupid placement on his opponent's. Seeing as he's not a GMC you can tarpit him into oblivion. His shooting is, again, a blast or a beam. Woop de doo, he gets to zap like 5 models a turn. TERRIFYING.

Meanwhile he eats up half your points that could be obsecing objectives.


It's been a while since I played 40k tabletop.

Is the concept of a unit that kills two units a turn not a worry anymore? That's what deathstars were for back in the day, and they only killed one unit a turn.

How many units does a typical army have nowadays that they can eat that many losses?
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Pouncey wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.


With the due respect, this seems delusional. GW never, ever had this kind of attention to detail and their rule interaction, is poor, sloppy, and wonky.

I doubt that they decided the size of that action figure for any reason different from "it looks right".


You're probably right. Clearly their models are designed to look cool with no effort into making the design practical.


How do you make a horn-nipple space chicken practical?

And to answer the other question. 32. Not sarcastic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/27 18:58:35



 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Gladius won't give a gak because of their free Rhinos, and you'd have to focus on a Necron unit at a time to utterly kill it

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





ted234521 wrote:
If the points cost is correct then I personally don't see much of an issue. He'll kill 1-2 units a turn at most (shoots one, assaults one) which is no problem at all, barring some very clever placement on Magnus' side and some very stupid placement on his opponent's. Seeing as he's not a GMC you can tarpit him into oblivion. His shooting is, again, a blast or a beam. Woop de doo, he gets to zap like 5 models a turn. TERRIFYING.

Meanwhile he eats up half your points that could be obsecing objectives.


5 models? Do you know how beams work? They hit EVERYTHING under the line. His blasts will rarely scatter if ever, and he can take control of one of your units if he wants to and make it shoot as if unmoved. In other words if you put something with SD shooting on the table he will be able to get 3 SD attacks a turn, keep in mind its a UNIT not a MODEL so if you bring 3 leman russes guess what I fire all three. With an easily reachable 2++ that can be rerolled, AND IWND good luck killing him.

 
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake




Back to the OP: should I boycott Magnus? Yes and no. £85 for a single figure? Forget it. Mega character (TM)? No thanks.

I won't buy him because I don't actually like the model much. He's too cash expensive. I would expect him to be very strong in game - Primarch - Daemon Prince - (Son of Emporer or did I misread?) - so I'd expect him to be killy, and hard to kill, and expensive in points. I also wouldn't expect to come across him very often (in fluff terms). So, interesting model for some I guess, but doesn't belong in "my" stardard 40K games any more than gargantuans, flyer squadrons, or superheavies.

Expecting a boycott because he's OP, is, however, throwing sand into the wind.
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes






I know he's so overpowered, it's almost like he was the leader of one of the most powerful fighting forces in the history of 40k. Additionally, GW obviously doesn't understand that their audience is entirely composed of tournament WAC players and not casuals looking to have some fun. Furthermore, why would GW unbalance their perfectly balanced game, it's almost like their understood just how BALANCED Eldar were when made their units. If Putin is going to conquer the Fins at any point in the near future he is going to need more vodka than usual.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/27 19:09:16


[Khorne Daemonkin Warband] 4/4/0 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





ERJAK wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.


With the due respect, this seems delusional. GW never, ever had this kind of attention to detail and their rule interaction, is poor, sloppy, and wonky.

I doubt that they decided the size of that action figure for any reason different from "it looks right".


You're probably right. Clearly their models are designed to look cool with no effort into making the design practical.


How do you make a horn-nipple space chicken practical?


By not making that. And then making something practical instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
I know he's so overpowered, it's almost like he was the leader of one of the most powerful fighting forces in the history of 40k.


Wasn't that Matt Ward's logic for the 5e Grey Knights Codex?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/27 19:17:12


 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
ted234521 wrote:
If the points cost is correct then I personally don't see much of an issue. He'll kill 1-2 units a turn at most (shoots one, assaults one) which is no problem at all, barring some very clever placement on Magnus' side and some very stupid placement on his opponent's. Seeing as he's not a GMC you can tarpit him into oblivion. His shooting is, again, a blast or a beam. Woop de doo, he gets to zap like 5 models a turn. TERRIFYING.

Meanwhile he eats up half your points that could be obsecing objectives.


5 models? Do you know how beams work? They hit EVERYTHING under the line. His blasts will rarely scatter if ever, and he can take control of one of your units if he wants to and make it shoot as if unmoved. In other words if you put something with SD shooting on the table he will be able to get 3 SD attacks a turn, keep in mind its a UNIT not a MODEL so if you bring 3 leman russes guess what I fire all three. With an easily reachable 2++ that can be rerolled, AND IWND good luck killing him.


I do think that at 650 points magnus won't be utterly game breaking but the first guy is either deliberately downplaying the power of magnus, or just isn't really used to thinking about min/maxed 40k. First of all, magnus should be killing 2-4 vehicles and a decent number of infantry models a turn. He has universal line of sight so placement is largely irrelevant. Unless you meant the beam at which point now you're just trolling. He's ML5 in the best psychic allegiance in the game AND he harnesses on a 2+ with no perils, he's getting 5 powers and even with Gaze of Magnus being WC5 5 powers would be 16-19 dice. That's not even a whole chaos demon army worth of warp charges, you'd still have leftovers. And melee? Why would you melee? Why take that risk? Take off flying turn 1 now you have a flying monstrous creature with a 2++ rerollable invul (thanks to the disciple of change+demon of tzeentch) that has a D beam and a decent selection of witchfires and novas. Getting him into melee is a silly unnecessary risk, the only things that could possibly kill him are 1. Culexus shutdown plus 1850 points of hardcore shooting 2. Stomps 3. 6 on the D table and flying makes all of those pretty much worthless.


 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
If Putin is going to conquer the Fins at any point in the near future he is going to need more vodka than usual.


Well, I know I haven't been drinking, but clearly you have.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Pouncey wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, I have a feeling Magnus' model is that big exactly so that opponents can draw a line of site on him from anywhere on the table.

He's that over powered. His size is his nerf.


With the due respect, this seems delusional. GW never, ever had this kind of attention to detail and their rule interaction, is poor, sloppy, and wonky.

I doubt that they decided the size of that action figure for any reason different from "it looks right".


You're probably right. Clearly their models are designed to look cool with no effort into making the design practical.


How do you make a horn-nipple space chicken practical?


By not making that. And then making something practical instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
I know he's so overpowered, it's almost like he was the leader of one of the most powerful fighting forces in the history of 40k.


Wasn't that Matt Ward's logic for the 5e Grey Knights Codex?


What game do you play? Because I play 40k and in 40k, the fact that nothing is practical is kind of the point. If you want practical I hear bolt action and flames of war are both really good games.


 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





ERJAK wrote:
What game do you play? Because I play 40k and in 40k, the fact that nothing is practical is kind of the point. If you want practical I hear bolt action and flames of war are both really good games.


Okay, but I didn't suggest making it practical.

I just said that clearly GW models are designed to look cool, not be practical. As a statement of fact. Not an argument in favor or against anything.
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 Pouncey wrote:
ted234521 wrote:
If the points cost is correct then I personally don't see much of an issue. He'll kill 1-2 units a turn at most (shoots one, assaults one) which is no problem at all, barring some very clever placement on Magnus' side and some very stupid placement on his opponent's. Seeing as he's not a GMC you can tarpit him into oblivion. His shooting is, again, a blast or a beam. Woop de doo, he gets to zap like 5 models a turn. TERRIFYING.

Meanwhile he eats up half your points that could be obsecing objectives.


It's been a while since I played 40k tabletop.

Is the concept of a unit that kills two units a turn not a worry anymore? That's what deathstars were for back in the day, and they only killed one unit a turn.

How many units does a typical army have nowadays that they can eat that many losses?

Considering how many ways there are to get FREE units like from Gladius or Summoning killing 1-2 units a turn is not actually impressive
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Pouncey wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
What game do you play? Because I play 40k and in 40k, the fact that nothing is practical is kind of the point. If you want practical I hear bolt action and flames of war are both really good games.


Okay, but I didn't suggest making it practical.

I just said that clearly GW models are designed to look cool, not be practical. As a statement of fact. Not an argument in favor or against anything.


I would argue that the context implied an argument against but accept that intent can be hard to suss out in an online setting.

For the record, in the context of 40k, Looks cool SHOULD be the design goal and practical should be something they work in where they can.


 
   
Made in ca
Confessor Of Sins





ERJAK wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
What game do you play? Because I play 40k and in 40k, the fact that nothing is practical is kind of the point. If you want practical I hear bolt action and flames of war are both really good games.


Okay, but I didn't suggest making it practical.

I just said that clearly GW models are designed to look cool, not be practical. As a statement of fact. Not an argument in favor or against anything.


I would argue that the context implied an argument against but accept that intent can be hard to suss out in an online setting.

For the record, in the context of 40k, Looks cool SHOULD be the design goal and practical should be something they work in where they can.


Why did you think I wanted practical in your previous post then?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CrownAxe wrote:
 Pouncey wrote:
ted234521 wrote:
If the points cost is correct then I personally don't see much of an issue. He'll kill 1-2 units a turn at most (shoots one, assaults one) which is no problem at all, barring some very clever placement on Magnus' side and some very stupid placement on his opponent's. Seeing as he's not a GMC you can tarpit him into oblivion. His shooting is, again, a blast or a beam. Woop de doo, he gets to zap like 5 models a turn. TERRIFYING.

Meanwhile he eats up half your points that could be obsecing objectives.


It's been a while since I played 40k tabletop.

Is the concept of a unit that kills two units a turn not a worry anymore? That's what deathstars were for back in the day, and they only killed one unit a turn.

How many units does a typical army have nowadays that they can eat that many losses?

Considering how many ways there are to get FREE units like from Gladius or Summoning killing 1-2 units a turn is not actually impressive


Well then.

I'm glad I play at home with my mom.

Where people just don't do ridiculous armies like that and stick to stuff in the standard Codexes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/27 19:34:10


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Oh noez, csm got something good - let's boycott it and proceed running our libconclaves with thunderwolves.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



United Kingdom

For me he should be almost impossible to kill. He is literally one of the most powerful entities in the galaxy, a deamon primarch, not just a primarch but one pumped up with the raw power of a chaos god. His stats are stronger than those of a 30k primarch, which is right. Besides a god he is one of the very most powerful entities still active. However, in terms of game balance, he needs to be very highly costed. Comparing him to a 30k primarch I would guess he will come in at around 1000 points.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Just challenge him out with a random character and stomp him down with a knight.
   
 
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