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 insaniak wrote:
What reason is there to not be fine with it?

The fact that they exist in the game doesn't force you to play against them... But does allow those who want to, to do so.

Thats nice and dandy if theres are large communities close by where you can pick and choose opponents, its utterly condescending to anyone spread out thin with limited communities.

A boat dosent float better if you start drilling additional holes in the hull to let the water out.

 Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
What reason is there to not be fine with it?

The fact that they exist in the game doesn't force you to play against them... But does allow those who want to, to do so.

Thats nice and dandy if theres are large communities close by where you can pick and choose opponents, its utterly condescending to anyone spread out thin with limited communities.

A boat dosent float better if you start drilling additional holes in the hull to let the water out.

Have you heard of submarine ballast tanks?

Well, as for the rules, you can always change them yourself to suit your needs better.

For models, plenty of 3rd party miniatures out there.

For the whole game, there are literally dozens of amazing wargames out there. 40k fills a partticular niche of being a 28mm game at the company level, which is attractive to many as vehicles and larger models are cool, and most 28mm games are skirmish oriented.

 Pouncey wrote:
So all I can do is whine fruitlessly on Internet message boards because I lack the power to actually get things to change.

So by your own admission, your whining about SoB is not intended to be a productive force?

Maybe it's time to invest in another wargame...

You know, i saw this thread and though, "Maybe there is a valid reason behind this." Nope just random bitching.

Pretty sure this was the argument when Knights first came out. It's amazing how people ALWAYS claim doom and gloom whenever something new happens or something changes, before they've even had the chance to see it in action.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
So all I can do is whine fruitlessly on Internet message boards because I lack the power to actually get things to change.

So by your own admission, your whining about SoB is not intended to be a productive force?

Maybe it's time to invest in another wargame...

...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
You know, i saw this thread and though, "Maybe there is a valid reason behind this." Nope just random bitching.

And thankfully you came to rescue with such high-quality content!

Eternally in debt buddy!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nintura wrote:
Pretty sure this was the argument when Knights first came out. It's amazing how people ALWAYS claim doom and gloom whenever something new happens or something changes, before they've even had the chance to see it in action.

If this is supposed to be an argument against, it fails spectacularly. I agree with the basic point, tough.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
You know, i saw this thread and though, "Maybe there is a valid reason behind this." Nope just random bitching.

And thankfully you came to rescue with such high-quality content!

Eternally in debt buddy!

Not a problem with super productive remarks like that, we are on our way to fixing the threads

 Pouncey wrote:


...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

There's one thing you can do - quit complaining and then either:

- Stop playing 40k until it improves
- Move to another game system

Just because other people are pointlessly complaining, doesn't mean you need to join in.

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
So all I can do is whine fruitlessly on Internet message boards because I lack the power to actually get things to change.

So by your own admission, your whining about SoB is not intended to be a productive force?

Maybe it's time to invest in another wargame...

...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

I dont agree with this guy much on things, but this is one of the cases.

All this is, is kicking and screaming about new toys coming out that are not for your faction, thats really what this all boils down to in the end.

I think, scratch that know, OP is doing just that. Magnus and the thousand sons, along with war zone fenris is one of the best things to happen to warhammer 40k for a few reasons.

1)Chaos Space marines might not actually suck now

2) This is a good sign we are getting some of the good parts of AoS in 40k (IE factions and doing away with ally table which is almost unarguably the cause for most problems in the game, but neither here nor there.)

3) THE STORY IS FINALLY MOVING ALONG!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

There's one thing you can do - quit complaining and then either:

- Stop playing 40k until it improves
- Move to another game system

Just because other people are pointlessly complaining, doesn't mean you need to join in.

This is also very true, bitching does nothing in the long run.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

There's one thing you can do - quit complaining and then either:

- Stop playing 40k until it improves
- Move to another game system

Just because other people are pointlessly complaining, doesn't mean you need to join in.

You remember all the complaints about Finecast?

All the complaints about the 5e Grey Knights?

All the legitimate complaints about serious problems?

All of it. Useless, wasted effort that didn't change anything.

 Pouncey wrote:


You remember all the complaints about Finecast?

All the complaints about the 5e Grey Knights?

All the legitimate complaints about serious problems?

All of it. Useless, wasted effort that didn't change anything.

Okay. So..?

That doesn't validate your whining if that's what you're trying to say.

1) in case is "Chaos Marines would not suck deploying a single broken model, leading to an updated version of the Mace Prince, but up to 11"

3) "the story moving along" is not necessarily good for everyone.

People whine because is human. Is a way to show distress (adjusted for the context ) , but is a warning to other humans, too. Is a way to say "that thing sucks, stay away from that".

Also, after some whining there is quitting. Enjoy your progressively shrinking echo-chamber, then.

 General Annoyance wrote:
Okay. So..?

That doesn't validate your whining if that's what you're trying to say.

You didn't have a problem with the Finecast complaints.

You didn't have a problem with the complaints about the GK codex.

You only call my posts "pointless whining" because you disagree with me.

 Pouncey wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


...Maybe you should think about what I just said.

There is no productive force I can do.

No option to make it better.

Every complaint about imbalanced rules and overpowered units on this forum is the same. All of it fruitless whining.

There's one thing you can do - quit complaining and then either:

- Stop playing 40k until it improves
- Move to another game system

Just because other people are pointlessly complaining, doesn't mean you need to join in.

You remember all the complaints about Finecast?

All the complaints about the 5e Grey Knights?

All the legitimate complaints about serious problems?

All of it. Useless, wasted effort that didn't change anything.

wellllll to be fair, those are not really good arguments for an example of wining is ok and works because

Finecast: was a wine with our wallets, no one bought it, and thats the real way to get a company to listen, not send in email after email, but to speak with you wallet. The reason they went away from fine cast is because no one bought it because it was pure crap. Also, Gw got a LOT better at making their plastic molds which basically made fine crap obsolete at that point for them.

Grey knights 5e: that changed not because of wining, that changed because of the drump truck of literally death threats sent to matt ward over the codex. It was not wining it was literally death threats that forced GW to change their policy for writing rule book where they never say who the author is.

so i mean unless you back that kindda action, death threats to get your way, then sure wining does stuff.

If you really wanna get GW to listen vote with your wallet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
1) in case is "Chaos Marines would not suck deploying a single broken model, leading to an updated version of the Mace Prince, but up to 11"

3) "the story moving along" is not necessarily good for everyone.

People whine because is human. Is a way to show distress (adjusted for the context ) , but is a warning to other humans, too. Is a way to say "that thing sucks, stay away from that".

Also, after some whining there is quitting. Enjoy your progressively shrinking echo-chamber, then.

Not looking at just magnus, with the drop of this they are also putting out traitor legion codexes, which is a good sign that CSM are getting a rework that im stoked for.

eh, im getting really tired of the same story, never going any were but thats personal opinion so, not a really a point i can argue for or against since neither of us would be right or wrong on it.

 Pouncey wrote:


You didn't have a problem with the Finecast complaints.

You didn't have a problem with the complaints about the GK codex.

You only call my posts "pointless whining" because you disagree with me.

And how did you come to the conclusion that I didn't have a problem with those complaints then?

(actually, I didn't have a problem with Finecast as that was a more genuine quality issue, that was resolved by GW in the end)

By your own admission your posts are pointless whining - just because I may not agree with your point (to an extent I actually agree with your point) doesn't change that.

All the whining just makes me want to buy it more.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
wellllll to be fair, those are not really good arguments for an example of wining is ok and works because

Finecast: was a wine with our wallets, no one bought it, and thats the real way to get a company to listen, not send in email after email, but to speak with you wallet. The reason they went away from fine cast is because no one bought it because it was pure crap. Also, Gw got a LOT better at making their plastic molds which basically made fine crap obsolete at that point for them.

Grey knights 5e: that changed not because of wining, that changed because of the drump truck of literally death threats sent to matt ward over the codex. It was not wining it was literally death threats that forced GW to change their policy for writing rule book where they never say who the author is.

so i mean unless you back that kindda action, death threats to get your way, then sure wining does stuff.

If you really wanna get GW to listen vote with your wallet.

Exactly. The complaints here didn't get anything to change. Other stuff did.

Every complaint on this forum hasn't changed a damned thing.

But you're okay with those complaints and not mine, because you either don't like me, or don't like my complaint. It's not because the complaint isn't going to get anything done, because you're okay with other complaints that don't get anything done when you agree with them.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
All the whining just makes me want to buy it more.

My finger is over the buy button emperor help me

To the OP:

Considering that this model is not even out yet, let's not jump the gun to quickly here. Also, have you seen some of the rules for the primarches in 30k? Oh and all of them can have bodyguard units. Magnus can not.

If you are so against some stuff, then don't play it. Personally for me, outside of tournaments I will not play eldar unless they use the old distort rules for their distort weapons, instead of str D. Yep, I got a friend that does not mind doing that at all. What I'm trying to say is if you don't like what your opponent brings either ask them to change something about their list and come to a compromise or be a better general and learn how to adept and over come.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
wellllll to be fair, those are not really good arguments for an example of wining is ok and works because

Finecast: was a wine with our wallets, no one bought it, and thats the real way to get a company to listen, not send in email after email, but to speak with you wallet. The reason they went away from fine cast is because no one bought it because it was pure crap. Also, Gw got a LOT better at making their plastic molds which basically made fine crap obsolete at that point for them.

Grey knights 5e: that changed not because of wining, that changed because of the drump truck of literally death threats sent to matt ward over the codex. It was not wining it was literally death threats that forced GW to change their policy for writing rule book where they never say who the author is.

so i mean unless you back that kindda action, death threats to get your way, then sure wining does stuff.

If you really wanna get GW to listen vote with your wallet.

Exactly. The complaints here didn't get anything to change. Other stuff did.

Every complaint on this forum hasn't changed a damned thing.

But you're okay with those complaints and not mine, because you either don't like me, or don't like my complaint. It's not because the complaint isn't going to get anything done, because you're okay with other complaints that don't get anything done when you agree with them.

Oh yeah yeah, if we are talking about just complains on these forms, then yeah those are worth gak, voting with your wallet is a good way to get listened to. I just detenst most whining on here because no one actually produces a real viable solution just WAHHHHHH THIS SUCKS SCREW GW!

And its just like....ok kid, you feel better now?

 Backspacehacker wrote:


Oh yeah yeah, if we are talking about just complains on these forms, then yeah those are worth gak, voting with your wallet is a good way to get listened to. I just detenst most whining on here because no one actually produces a real viable solution just WAHHHHHH THIS SUCKS SCREW GW!

And its just like....ok kid, you feel better now?

So don't single me out, when everyone else is doing the exact same thing.

 Backspacehacker wrote:


Not looking at just magnus, with the drop of this they are also putting out traitor legion codexes, which is a good sign that CSM are getting a rework that im stoked for.

"the past FIVE CSM books are a borderline parody, BUT THIS ONE WILL BE GOOD I AM SURE!!!!"

let's wait and see (because is true that before whining we have to wait, see and play). I would never be so happy of being wrong

There's a whole spectrum of difference between whining and having some intelligent discourse about something you may dislike.

OP, for example, who has a long history of ranty, non-sensical, whining posts is considered to be a whiner because the posts are filled with nonsense and are abrasive to all, even the people who may agree with the premise.

So yeah, feel free to point out the problems with GW. You'll find plenty of company here. Its how you do it that matters.

There's a world of difference between "GW prices make me mad and you should all boycott them!" and "I feel GW's prices are hurting the community as a barrier to entry for newer players, does anyone have any alternatives or ways to lessen this?"

 Pouncey wrote:

So all I can do is whine fruitlessly on Internet message boards because I lack the power to actually get things to change.

You could invest a lot of time and effort in house-ruling stuff to death and finding like-minded people.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

My finger is over the buy button emperor help me

In a way, the emperor did help.

Still think people make a way to big fuss about it. It's just a game. If you don't to play with or against Magnus... don't?

Realistically things like this just show why GW's rules are absolute junk, and why until they actually try to fix it nothing will save them. Sure you have the few diehard "fanboys" like jah-joshua who is like "I love the GW aesthetic, everything else isn't as good because it's not exactly GW aesthetic" but most of us seem to actually want a good game, and GW repeatedly fails to deliver. It seems though the masses only care about "zomg shiny new model" and will blissfully ignore gak rules as long as they get their cool looking models.

I don't get it. I've only recently looked at coming back to GW and dropped more than I should have on a few things, and while the models are nice, every single time I see a game or play a game I think to myself "what the feth am I doing wasting my time with this trainwreck of a game" when I play other games that have models I also like (albeit not the sheer quality of GW) and much better rules that I actually enjoy playing.

Yet I frequently see people defend the game. The models I get, they are cool and have a relatively unique aesthetic that you can't find elsewhere. But the game is straight garbage, and I can't fathom how anyone, especially people who have played other games, can say that GW rules are anything but trash. I get playing because it lets you use the cool figures, but at least accept that the rules are bad and should change; instead I see people actual laud the GW rules and condemn other, better games, and cannot figure out why.

The model is awesome. The rules are junk. It seems GW games really do attract those who care more about buying/painting/collecting the models than actually playing a game; sort of like a twisted parody of Gundams and other model kits, where you buy it because it's a cool model, and no other reason factors in.

Now, I like whining as much as the next guy, but isn't this getting a bit out of hand?

I mean, it's your hobby. You can do what you want. It's perfectly fine to seek out like-minded people and play the kind of games you want to play. It's perfectly fine to throw out the rules entirely and make your own, or use another game alongside your 40k minis. It's also fine to just read pre-3rd ed fluff. Or pretend Ward never worked for GW, or that CS Goto wrote for Warmachine.

Seriously, guys, it's toy soldiers and your hobby. Take some ownership of it and find a way to enjoy yourself. Jesus.

 koooaei wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

So all I can do is whine fruitlessly on Internet message boards because I lack the power to actually get things to change.

You could invest a lot of time and effort in house-ruling stuff to death and finding like-minded people.

...You understand my issue is about not having plastic models, right? You can't house-rule new models into existence.

Also, if you wanna look up my early posts on this forum from about 5 1/2 years ago, you'll see me being the most optimistic Sisters of Battle player on this forum. You'll also see other Sisters of Battle players arguing with me about how the situattion wasn't bad.