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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I didn't read it, but is this the guy who had Draigo carve his name into his heart?

1) Wrong Primarch.
2) Draigo doesn't carve his name in Mortarion's heart.

Okay, so when the right Primarch gets his model, will the name carved into the Primarch's heart be visible on the model's exposed heart?

The heart is extremely unlikely to be exposed. It was carved on a Deamon Primarch Prince of Nurgle, who is likely to have healed it over (or have it covered by intestines/bloated flesh/armor/robes).

Also, if he could get his sword onto the Primarch's heart enough to carve a name into it, why didn't he kill the Primarch?

Do Primarchs not need their heart to live or something?

He was a Daemon Prince at the time, which are near effectively immortal as when they die they tend to just go back to the Warp to regenerate.

Oh.

Then the answer is that his heart doesn't have the name on it anymore? Because after Draigo killed him, while he was regenerating, the wounds forming the name aren't included in the regeneration process.

 Toughsurvivor wrote:
So I´m a Wolves..

Let me see if I got this right..

Cons..

We lost Midgardia
We Lost Egil
We Lost the most population on Fenris (How much, we don´t know, do we have to go elsewhere to find new recruits? Not so sure, because they could have choose to destroy Fenris instead)
We Lost credibility as Chapter

Cons
We kicked Magnus out
We Didn´t turn Exile (Not Kicked from of the Empire)
We didn´t go to full war with DA (Maybe we can put that behind us now)


Tabletop
A lot of cool new stuff and attachment.

Lets see what happens in the future..
But what about the new "Prospero" ?

Best Regards!

I don't think the SW really lost credibility; the DA were proved to be in the wrong and Logan agreed to terms with the GK/Inq, so honestly the SW are probably in a relatively good place politically.

Losing parts of the fleet, the Fenrisian population (however much of it), and the number of marines they did is the worst part.

Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

Um.

It's a series of wounds that looks vaguely like letters.

Doesn't really suggest any sort of special power.


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Winter wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

Yeah, cause, like, if I know what someone's name was before they had it changed, I can control them and stuff. Cause knowing a name gives me magic powers.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

Um.

It's a series of wounds that looks vaguely like letters.

Doesn't really suggest any sort of special power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Winter wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

Yeah, cause, like, if I know what someone's name was before they had it changed, I can control them and stuff. Cause knowing a name gives me magic powers.

He is a Daemon so he's literally made of magic stuff. So it's not that unrealistic.

pm713 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

Um.

It's a series of wounds that looks vaguely like letters.

Doesn't really suggest any sort of special power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Winter wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

Yeah, cause, like, if I know what someone's name was before they had it changed, I can control them and stuff. Cause knowing a name gives me magic powers.

He is a Daemon so he's literally made of magic stuff. So it's not that unrealistic.

So, um, why doesn't someone just go look up the records of the original names of all the Demon Space Marines on Imperial records? Should contain all their original names.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

Um.

It's a series of wounds that looks vaguely like letters.

Doesn't really suggest any sort of special power.

It does, actually.

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Winter wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

Yeah, cause, like, if I know what someone's name was before they had it changed, I can control them and stuff. Cause knowing a name gives me magic powers.

Draigo used Mortarian's True Name to bring him low (and carveable) in the first place - otherwise he would have been defeated with little effort.

As for the second part... well, yes. That's an element of understanding a foe's True Name, and can be seen in a lot of other places in fiction.

True Names are a well-established part of the Warhammer 40k universe, as are Words of Power (in which speaking a word rewrites reality (or imposes that word's reality) in particular ways.

So, um, why doesn't someone just go look up the records of the original names of all the Demon Space Marines on Imperial records? Should contain all their original names.

Because a True Name isn't necessarily the name you were given (by title, by society, by your parents, and even by yourself) - it is instead reflective of your underlying nature.

Mortarion is a special case, in that the Grey Knights of sufficient study can know his name, while most demons don't have revealed True Names to exploit (including the Demon Primarch Angron).

Knowing a True Name is a rarity, as one might expect for an "I Win" button of that caliber.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

Um.

It's a series of wounds that looks vaguely like letters.

Doesn't really suggest any sort of special power.

It does, actually.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Winter wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

Yeah, cause, like, if I know what someone's name was before they had it changed, I can control them and stuff. Cause knowing a name gives me magic powers.

Draigo used Mortarian's True Name to bring him low (and carveable) in the first place - otherwise he would have been defeated with little effort.

As for the second part... well, yes. That's an element of understanding a foe's True Name, and can be seen in a lot of other places in fiction.

True Names are a well-established part of the Warhammer 40k universe, as are Words of Power (in which speaking a word rewrites reality (or imposes that word's reality) in particular ways.

Okay, so we have name magic.

Why don't we also use some time magic to go back in time and warn the Emperor about Horus?

Because Time Magic is not as reliable.

Name Magic is part of the lore, Time Magic is wonky. Them's the breaks in WH40k.

Edit: Look, no offense is intended. It is not a crime to lack knowledge of particular parts of the lore. The lore gives certain words power in the WH40k universe, and that isn't an uncommon form of magic.

Time Magic is not very well established, and where it is, it lacks the sort of consistency necessary to do what you suggested (most likely because of exactly the sort of disruption it would cause, like warning the Emperor of all the nitty gritty details his prescience might have missed leading up to it).

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Because Time Magic is not as reliable.

Name Magic is part of the lore, Time Magic is wonky. Them's the breaks in WH40k.

"Not as reliable" is only a problem for people who care if their citizens live or die.

The Imperium doesn't. Just start pinning notes to chests and sending random idiots back in time until one gets through. Who cares if a billion die horribly?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Because Time Magic is not as reliable.

Name Magic is part of the lore, Time Magic is wonky. Them's the breaks in WH40k.

"Not as reliable" is only a problem for people who care if their citizens live or die.

The Imperium doesn't. Just start pinning notes to chests and sending random idiots back in time until one gets through. Who cares if a billion die horribly?

What happens if one of those people end up causing some other result, like Horus defeating the Emperor and consuming the Universe in chaos?

What happens if Time Magic simply can't feasibly go back that far without a sufficient power source (of which there are none, now that The Emperor is napping on the Golden Throne)? What if the limits of attempted Time Magic are the equivalent of popping 5 seconds into the past, and that only things like Warp Jumps can do anything more than that?

But to put things into perspective, I know of only one instance where Time Travel is done consciously, and that is with Necron uber-technology, NOT Warp Manipulation (i.e. Time Magic). The only time we see Warp-based time travel is through involuntary means (getting lost in the warp), and while the Imperium has a lot of resources, it doesn't have the millions of spare Warp-capable ships to send into Warp Storms hoping the random time travel actually hits the mark.

Can you guys please stop making huge quote pyramids for some slowed Mat Ward fluff that has nothing to do with the topic, kthxbye?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Can you guys please stop making huge quote pyramids for some slowed Mat Ward fluff that has nothing to do with the topic, kthxbye?

Sorry, I'll drop it.

xlDuke wrote:
I'm pretty terrified of where this plot progression is going and what 8th will involve. I'll be keeping up with it all with a 70/30 mix of trepidation and excitement. Somebody hold me close and tell me it will all work out

Same, although for me it is at least 85/15 in favour of trepidation.

My takeaway: Sisters of Silence have the power to unmake a god. If this is accurate, I predict Perturabo and/or Lorgar (the daemon primarchs least likely to get models) will end up running into some Sisters at some point and get permakilled.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
My takeaway: Sisters of Silence have the power to unmake a god. If this is accurate, I predict Perturabo and/or Lorgar (the daemon primarchs least likely to get models) will end up running into some Sisters at some point and get permakilled.

Given that Sisters of Silence haven't been a thing in the Imperium since some point long before M35, and we know where those Primarchs are in M40... How do you not already know what happened to those Primarchs?

Winter wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Depends on the name inscribed and that name's power. Given we know that souls (even infused-with-chaos-souls) can be destroyed outright (Horus, and potentially one of the Demonhosts that Eisenhorn 'sploded with his Runestaff), I'd imagine a permanent "scar" on a demon's form is not impossible (in the same way that Khorn could rip off one of his Greater Demon's wings and prevent them from regenerating).

I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

No, he carved the name of his predecessor that mortation killed into his heart to insult him. He spoke mortarion's true name to weaken him to do so.


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 Pouncey wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
My takeaway: Sisters of Silence have the power to unmake a god. If this is accurate, I predict Perturabo and/or Lorgar (the daemon primarchs least likely to get models) will end up running into some Sisters at some point and get permakilled.

Given that Sisters of Silence haven't been a thing in the Imperium since some point long before M35, and we know where those Primarchs are in M40... How do you not already know what happened to those Primarchs?

They've mostly all stayed in the eye of terror all this time if I remember right.

 n0t_u wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
My takeaway: Sisters of Silence have the power to unmake a god. If this is accurate, I predict Perturabo and/or Lorgar (the daemon primarchs least likely to get models) will end up running into some Sisters at some point and get permakilled.

Given that Sisters of Silence haven't been a thing in the Imperium since some point long before M35, and we know where those Primarchs are in M40... How do you not already know what happened to those Primarchs?

They've mostly all stayed in the eye of terror all this time if I remember right.

So, then, no, they're not going to be killed by Sisters of Silence, are they?

 Pouncey wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
My takeaway: Sisters of Silence have the power to unmake a god. If this is accurate, I predict Perturabo and/or Lorgar (the daemon primarchs least likely to get models) will end up running into some Sisters at some point and get permakilled.

Given that Sisters of Silence haven't been a thing in the Imperium since some point long before M35, and we know where those Primarchs are in M40... How do you not already know what happened to those Primarchs?

They've mostly all stayed in the eye of terror all this time if I remember right.

So, then, no, they're not going to be killed by Sisters of Silence, are they?

Sisters of silence are all blanks like culexus, blanks make it extremely difficult/impossible for warp entities to remain in real space. While they're mostly antipsyker and not really a daemon hunting force, having that many blanks should just push them back into the warp or maybe mess with some of them enough to let the grey knights do something. I think at most you can just banish a daemon as powerful as the primarchs for a long period of time like 1000 years or something, basically not kill it but keeping it in time out for a long amount of time.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blank

So the space wolves have lost a lot of man power now, and are therefore less powerful. Could this fluff change be maybe to roll the many flavors of SM into one supplement book instead of different codexes like they're doing with chaos? Just an idea I had, probably a dumb one though

Man, the Space Wolves Legion sized fleet just got wrecked, their outsized space marine chapter got their numbers pruned back, and the only location they can recruit from just got everything but destroyed?

What a shame.

Still are recruits to find on Fenris..
And why should GW smallen SW, one of their biggest money income? that wouldn´t make any sense?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
A question to the story..
Waren´t Wulfen, wulfens?
Their destiny weren´t told?
There were not 13th , so who were they.. ??

Anyone ?
Best Wishes

 TheLumberJack wrote:
So the space wolves have lost a lot of man power now, and are therefore less powerful. Could this fluff change be maybe to roll the many flavors of SM into one supplement book instead of different codexes like they're doing with chaos? Just an idea I had, probably a dumb one though

Seems unlikely as Space Wolves still operate differently than their "Spiritual Liege" following brethren. Between their initiates (Claw units) being assault and biker units, their special dread equipment, their more veteran scouts + long fangs, their double special weapon tacticals, lack of grav and their helfrost weapons, thunder wolves, wulfen, their flying wolf head shipping container, etc the Space Wolves are far too different to just fit into a Chapter Tactics format.

A question I need a answer too.
If possible? ;-)

What are the Wulfen, when you check the spoilers in Wrath of Magnus they are not likely 13th company, so then they aren´t SW at all?! A scam from Chaos to forefil their plan to start a war between DA vs SW ? Then we (Wolves) shouldn´t use them after this saga. Why would even GK/INQ let us?
Either they are 13th company wulfen, no signs on that..
Or they are chaos made..

Thoughts????
Best Regards!

I haven't read the latest SW fluff but Wulfen are Space Wolves who have fallen to the Curse of the Wulfen which is a flaw in the Space Wolf geneseed.

One thing I always hated about the Wulfen is they are a mutation that should be hidden, not exposed to the world. Even if they're good fighters it's stupid to let them run rampant in battle because they're mutants and the Imperial doesn't look kindly on mutants. That's how they used to be treated back in the earlier codex, as a secret to be hidden, but more recent iterations of the SW feel like fan fiction such that the Wulfen were actually given a place in the chapter instead of thrown out like they should have been.

If I'm understanding the spoilers correctly, the Wulfen were supposed to be a hidden feature of the Space Wolves, vague rumours that weren't known for sure outside of the chapter itself. Now they've been exposed.

Too be fair, a large part of the first book in the campaign has most the Wolf Lords despise the Wulfen.

Ulrik was the one that decided to use them in combat as actual warriors for everyone else and was the one that authorised the equipping of them. He was convinced that they were sent by Russ and heralded his return. The other Wolf Lords either didn't think it was worth their time to argue with him or failed trying.

The plot reason for the Wulfen being with each Great Company was because the Space Wolves were trying to get all the Wulfen before anyone else got wind that they were mutated space wolves, and apparently Wulfen are really good at tracking other Wulfen down.



The whole "oh hey we have like 100+ relic weapons for the Wulfen to use on hand because we were using them as wall decorations for 10,000 years" thing was gak to the max though. On top of Ulrik's dumb faith and decisions, that really took the cake.

Why this diversion over a character who isn't even present in the narrative the thread is about?

Winter wrote:
I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

No.

Draigo carved his predecessor's name (Geronitan) into Mortarian's heart (Codex: Grey Knights (5th ed.), pgs.15, 38).

This isn't new background people. Come on.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Why this diversion over a character who isn't even present in the narrative the thread is about?

Winter wrote:
I believe it was implied that he carved Mortarion's true name onto his heart. So if they go the standard route of what a knowing a true name provides, Draigo will essentially be able to control him.

No.

Draigo carved his predecessor's name (Geronitan) into Mortarian's heart (Codex: Grey Knights (5th ed.), pgs.15, 38).

This isn't new background people. Come on.

Well, I initially asked.

And I asked that despite it being old lore, even though I've been a 40k player since 2001.

And, frankly, I don't care about Space Marine lore, so I didn't have a reason to memorize the names and details and such. Because I don't care.

If you go to such painstaking lengths to ensure everyone knows how little you care about the subject, why do you ask and talk so much about it?