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So, hopefully plastic Sisters of Battle will be out soon and it wasn't just a joke. It probably won't happen, but if it does, I'm gonna be making a Kill Team of Battle Sisters of some sort.

But... Kill Team is something I've only heard about. My rulebooks are packed away due to having not unpacked after moving. Where can I find the rules for Kill Team?

(edit: not asking for a torrent, I just wanna know if they're in a book I can buy or if they're in the BRB or what)

For the current 7th Edition Rules, you'll need to buy the Kill Team box set to grab the rules, or try and find the book on eBay or equivalent.

The alternative is to use the 6th Ed rules, which were published by GW for free. I suggest using the 6th Ed ruleset as there is next to no difference between that and what you get in 7th.

There is also the Heralds of Ruin fan supplement that some players like to use, which makes the game feel a lot more detailed. It's not mandatory in most communities, and it's certainly not for everyone.

Hope this helps

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:
For the current 7th Edition Rules, you'll need to buy the Kill Team box set to grab the rules, or try and find the book on eBay or equivalent.

The alternative is to use the 6th Ed rules, which were published by GW for free. I suggest using the 6th Ed ruleset as there is next to no difference between that and what you get in 7th.

There is also the Heralds of Ruin fan supplement that some players like to use, which makes the game feel a lot more detailed. It's not mandatory in most communities, and it's certainly not for everyone.

Hope this helps

G.A

Cool, thanks!

And it's just gonna be me and my mom playing, so there's not really a community that would create conflicts.

 Pouncey wrote:


Cool, thanks!

And it's just gonna be me and my mom playing, so there's not really a community that would create conflicts.

Well in that case you should have no problems giving them a try, or even create some house rules of your own; Kill Team is infinitely more interesting when you get creative with your missions.

The advantage of visiting a LGS is that they may have some special tournament missions that may grab your interest; having gotten my hands on a tournament pack myself, I can tell you they are certainly interesting

Either way, happy hunting!

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


Cool, thanks!

And it's just gonna be me and my mom playing, so there's not really a community that would create conflicts.

Well in that case you should have no problems giving them a try, or even create some house rules of your own; Kill Team is infinitely more interesting when you get creative with your missions.

The advantage of visiting a LGS is that they may have some special tournament missions that may grab your interest; having gotten my hands on a tournament pack myself, I can tell you they are certainly interesting

Either way, happy hunting!

G.A

I've tried creating rules on my own before, doesn't usually go well. Might houserule some simpler ways of doing things, like in 40k my mom and I pretty much ignored the multiple barrage rules for allocating casualties and just took models from the front like a normal shooting attack with blast weapons.

I don't play at the LGS due to anxiety problems,but I appreciate the suggestion.

A common rule I've ignored in Kill Team when I'm playing with my developing armies is to ignore the Specialists rule; for the most part they are a small bonus that you'll lose within a few turns (since they kinda act as death marks for your team) and also complicate the game if you don't write them down and/or your Specialists aren't different enough to identify them easily. It also helps to get the game going instead of spending an extra 5 minutes making your choices

There are a few ways around anxiety if it's crippling your hobby ability - I won't patronise you past this as I'm sure you've tried, but a possible solution may be to organise a game with a friend and go when the shop is fairly quiet

 General Annoyance wrote:
A common rule I've ignored in Kill Team when I'm playing with my developing armies is to ignore the Specialists rule; for the most part they are a small bonus that you'll lose within a few turns (since they kinda act as death marks for your team) and also complicate the game if you don't write them down and/or your Specialists aren't different enough to identify them easily. It also helps to get the game going instead of spending an extra 5 minutes making your choices

I'll avoid the Specialists thing then. Thanks!

There are a few ways around anxiety if it's crippling your hobby ability - I won't patronise you past this as I'm sure you've tried, but a possible solution may be to organise a game with a friend and go when the shop is fairly quiet

I really do appreciate you recognizing that I've likely tried to get around it and not suggesting ways to deal with it, but could you have waited until you finished the sentence where you said that before making such a suggestion anyways?

 Pouncey wrote:
I'll avoid the Specialists thing then. Thanks!

They definitely help to spice the game up a bit, but if you're better with pick-up-and-play, and don't like keeping track of too many things, it's best to avoid it

I really do appreciate you recognizing that I've likely tried to get around it and not suggesting ways to deal with it, but could you have waited until you finished the sentence where you said that before making such a suggestion anyways?

Thought I'd suggest it as someone who overcame their anxiety as a young teen by recognising how characterful and bubbly I can be in person (and how I can use that to get on with people of all varieties), as well as studying psychology; I've also noticed that organising games and heading over to my LGS in the morning to play a game is the perfect time to do so, as it can be pretty cramped in there if you pick the wrong time to visit plus having the open space, and just me, my opponent and the store manager who I get on very well with, makes for a perfect clear morning for a kid who'd rather wrap up in his duvet at 10AM.

Feel free to ignore it though if you feel like it's worthless advice - no offence will be taken.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I'll avoid the Specialists thing then. Thanks!

They definitely help to spice the game up a bit, but if you're better with pick-up-and-play, and don't like keeping track of too many things, it's best to avoid it

Yeah, one of the advantages of playing with a small group is you can pretty much alter whatever you want.

I really do appreciate you recognizing that I've likely tried to get around it and not suggesting ways to deal with it, but could you have waited until you finished the sentence where you said that before making such a suggestion anyways?

Thought I'd suggest it as someone who overcame their anxiety as a young teen by recognising how characterful and bubbly I can be in person (and how I can use that to get on with people of all varieties), as well as studying psychology; I've also noticed that organising games and heading over to my LGS in the morning to play a game is the perfect time to do so, as it can be pretty cramped in there if you pick the wrong time to visit plus having the open space, and just me, my opponent and the store manager who I get on very well with, makes for a perfect clear morning for a kid who'd rather wrap up in his duvet at 10AM.

Feel free to ignore it though if you feel like it's worthless advice - no offence will be taken.

G.A

Oh no, it's not bad advice. It's the perfect place to start when it comes to overcoming anxiety problems. Social anxiety gets better with smaller crowds and being with someone you already know. And the best way to solve anxiety problems is to expose yourself to that anxiety repeatedly, because it gets better every time. It's actually good advice. There's nothing wrong with the advice, that's not why I'm annoyed.

It's just, I mean... I've had my anxiety problems for over 13 years. So it's not like this is a new problem that I'm just unaware of how to deal with it.

You ever have a computer problem you can't solve for a year? And you mention it to someone, who then suggests step 1 in the standard troubleshooting steps for that problem?

supposedly the PDF version GW sells online got updated, I think it's $10. The rules also come in the kill team box, which is a nice discount with a mini rule book, the kill team rulebook, and a box of space marines and tau fire warriors.

Here's the rules in a nutshell.

1. Buy units as normal, 200pts. force org is
0-2 troop
0-1 Elite
0-1 Fast attack

No 2+ armor, no summoning, no combined armor over 33, and no models with more than 3 wounds.

2. Upon deployment, every unit is split up to where every single model functions as it's own unit. Basically they act like independent characters but can't join up ever. So if you have a squad of 10 space marines, at deployment they can all deploy, move, shoot, assault, and do everything else seperately.

3. You have 3 specialists and a leader. Leader works just like a warlord. Specialists basically get free special rules, and I think they add a lot to the GW version. Without it the games can be pretty bland. Specialists allow you to have things like a relentless heavy weapon, plasma that ignores cover, close combat models with fleshbane or rending, haywire grenades, etc. etc. Also some missions require specialists in order to be played for Vanilla, as they can count for points.

There is a slight rock/paper/scissors dynamic in that hordes beat elites, elites beat vehicles, and vehicles beat hordes. You'll need tools to deal with all 3 in any list.


Also don't be afraid to look at Heralds of Ruin, my group has been wanting to try it but we're still learning its ins and outs. It massively speeds up the game in some areas like running and move through cover (you get set rates instead of rolling randomly. This doesn't sound big but when you have to run through cover with 30 guardsmen you'll thank me). Also heralds of ruin allows a lot more options for your whole force and even allows things like 2+ armor saves and toned down HQ units.

Addendum to this: Units in Kill-Team are split up at deployment into single-model units, some special rules are made weird by doing so. In the case of Sisters (at least under the current book) each individual Sister would get her Acts of Faith separately, for instance.

If you do choose to use specialists, it really really helps to have something visual to distinguish them, even if that means just straight up writing down their skill on a piece of paper and taping it to the base.

 amazingturtles wrote:
If you do choose to use specialists, it really really helps to have something visual to distinguish them, even if that means just straight up writing down their skill on a piece of paper and taping it to the base.

That's what I do, usually. Since my Praetorians all look similar. (Though my leader is the dude who's one-handing his rod.)

 amazingturtles wrote:
If you do choose to use specialists, it really really helps to have something visual to distinguish them, even if that means just straight up writing down their skill on a piece of paper and taping it to the base.

Well, one of the advantages of Kill Team for me is that it has a very low model count with each model being its own thing. I really really like making customized models that are easily distinguished from each other, and some of my creations are stuff that would targeted first in a normal game just to get it off the board so the opponent doesn't have to deal with non-standard models.

Like, this guy here:

http://i.imgur.com/8GuU8wV.jpg

That's the level of customization my models in my Kill Team are going to have. They're not just going to be standard models that are mostly indistinguishable.

It's actually why I want plastic Sisters of Battle in the first place - so I can do these kinds of customizations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Addendum to this: Units in Kill-Team are split up at deployment into single-model units, some special rules are made weird by doing so. In the case of Sisters (at least under the current book) each individual Sister would get her Acts of Faith separately, for instance.

That's not really weird. That's like if you had 20 Battle Sisters and split them into 4 squads of 5 instead of keeping them in 1 squad of 20. The same number of models would then get 4 Act of Faith rolls instead of 1, but each one would only apply to a quarter of the models.

 Pouncey wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Addendum to this: Units in Kill-Team are split up at deployment into single-model units, some special rules are made weird by doing so. In the case of Sisters (at least under the current book) each individual Sister would get her Acts of Faith separately, for instance.

That's not really weird. That's like if you had 20 Battle Sisters and split them into 4 squads of 5 instead of keeping them in 1 squad of 20. The same number of models would then get 4 Act of Faith rolls instead of 1, but each one would only apply to a quarter of the models.

That specific instance isn't that weird, but there are weird things that come out of it (Guardian weapons platforms being removed on entering play, for instance). Will have to look and see if there are any interactions in Sisters that are actually weird (I don't think I'll find any, most of their units legal in Kill Team are pretty straightforward).

...I suppose Condemnor boltguns would still cause a Perils attack on a Grey Knight in spite of the fact that Brotherhood of Psykers doesn't actually let them use any powers in Kill-Team, since they still have the special rule?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Addendum to this: Units in Kill-Team are split up at deployment into single-model units, some special rules are made weird by doing so. In the case of Sisters (at least under the current book) each individual Sister would get her Acts of Faith separately, for instance.

That's not really weird. That's like if you had 20 Battle Sisters and split them into 4 squads of 5 instead of keeping them in 1 squad of 20. The same number of models would then get 4 Act of Faith rolls instead of 1, but each one would only apply to a quarter of the models.

That specific instance isn't that weird, but there are weird things that come out of it (Guardian weapons platforms being removed on entering play, for instance). Will have to look and see if there are any interactions in Sisters that are actually weird (I don't think I'll find any, most of their units legal in Kill Team are pretty straightforward).

...I suppose Condemnor boltguns would still cause a Perils attack on a Grey Knight in spite of the fact that Brotherhood of Psykers doesn't actually let them use any powers in Kill-Team, since they still have the special rule?

For Guardian Weapon Platforms, I'd do a houserule to let the two Guardian operators use it rather than insisting on strict RAW that clearly wasn't meant for situations like this. Maybe treat it like battlefield terrain the guardians can move around and use to shoot. Like the quad-gun from the Aegis Defence Line.

The Grey Knights' Brotherhood of Psykers thing is fine. Just let them use their psychic powers, make them cast it individually and have the results apply to them individually. Hammerhand? Do a psychic test when the model wants to use it, if it passes, that model alone has his strength buffed. What about the Purifiers' power, you ask? Where you get like 5 Purifiers casting it individually and the whole enemy squad takes 5 times as many hits? Well, the enemies are also squads of 1 in Kill Team, so a single Purifier in a duel is only going to hit 1 enemy with it. IF you're worried about a multi-combat, just make the Purifier have to choose one target in base contact to direct it at, nothing else is hit by it.

Yup. Kill-Team does require some house rules.

That said implementing Brotherhood as making each model an independent psyker would be massively broken; five Purifiers would have ten Mastery levels between them and each cast of Cleansing Flame would hit every single model within 12" of the caster 2d6 times. The more common implementation I use is the one HoR used where the Sergeant is a Psyker and the rest aren't (since that keeps the same Mastery levels/known powers/powers per turn that the unit was paying for in a normal game of 40k), and Blessings that target the caster and his unit apply to models within 3" of the caster.

(Consider also that twenty Pink Horrors would be 180pts and each one would be a ML3 psyker under the "each model is a psyker individually" plan, and you'd be putting out hundreds of heavy bolter shots a turn from that list.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Yup. Kill-Team does require some house rules.

That said implementing Brotherhood as making each model an independent psyker would be massively broken; five Purifiers would have ten Mastery levels between them and each cast of Cleansing Flame would hit every single model within 12" of the caster 2d6 times. The more common implementation I use is the one HoR used where the Sergeant is a Psyker and the rest aren't (since that keeps the same Mastery levels/known powers/powers per turn that the unit was paying for in a normal game of 40k), and Blessings that target the caster and his unit apply to models within 3" of the caster.

(Consider also that twenty Pink Horrors would be 180pts and each one would be a ML3 psyker under the "each model is a psyker individually" plan, and you'd be putting out hundreds of heavy bolter shots a turn from that list.)

Um, when you divide up that squad of Purifiers into squads of 1 model each, they stop combining their powers. Like, you don't count them as the same squad when figuring out their powers. The same way you don't calculate Mastery Level stuff for your 10 purifiers when they're in 2 squads of 5, by calculating the total for each squad as though you have 10 purifiers in each unit.

 General Annoyance wrote:
For the current 7th Edition Rules, you'll need to buy the Kill Team box set to grab the rules, or try and find the book on eBay or equivalent.

The rules are available separately in digital format:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/kill-team-2016.html

Buy the Killteam box, sells the miniatures on ebay and you'll have more money than before. Repeat.

 Ezr91aeL wrote:
Buy the Killteam box, sells the miniatures on ebay and you'll have more money than before. Repeat.

Uhh.

Two problems with that.

First, I don't sell stuff on eBay.

Second, once I have the rule book from the set, and I decide what to do with the models I don't want, why would I buy another box? I'm trying to play a game here, not start a business on eBay.

 Pouncey wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Yup. Kill-Team does require some house rules.

That said implementing Brotherhood as making each model an independent psyker would be massively broken; five Purifiers would have ten Mastery levels between them and each cast of Cleansing Flame would hit every single model within 12" of the caster 2d6 times. The more common implementation I use is the one HoR used where the Sergeant is a Psyker and the rest aren't (since that keeps the same Mastery levels/known powers/powers per turn that the unit was paying for in a normal game of 40k), and Blessings that target the caster and his unit apply to models within 3" of the caster.

(Consider also that twenty Pink Horrors would be 180pts and each one would be a ML3 psyker under the "each model is a psyker individually" plan, and you'd be putting out hundreds of heavy bolter shots a turn from that list.)

Um, when you divide up that squad of Purifiers into squads of 1 model each, they stop combining their powers. Like, you don't count them as the same squad when figuring out their powers. The same way you don't calculate Mastery Level stuff for your 10 purifiers when they're in 2 squads of 5, by calculating the total for each squad as though you have 10 purifiers in each unit.

Oh, no, you absolutely do treat a single 10-model Purifier squad combat squadded into two squads as two separate ML2 psykers (and by extension five split into one-model units as five different ML2 psykers). The ML isn't dependent on squad size, it's always 2 no matter how many Purifiers are there.

You would for Pink Horrors, though, since their ML is dependent on squad size; good catch. Twenty Pink Horrors would be twenty ML1 psykers, not twenty ML3 psykers.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Yup. Kill-Team does require some house rules.

That said implementing Brotherhood as making each model an independent psyker would be massively broken; five Purifiers would have ten Mastery levels between them and each cast of Cleansing Flame would hit every single model within 12" of the caster 2d6 times. The more common implementation I use is the one HoR used where the Sergeant is a Psyker and the rest aren't (since that keeps the same Mastery levels/known powers/powers per turn that the unit was paying for in a normal game of 40k), and Blessings that target the caster and his unit apply to models within 3" of the caster.

(Consider also that twenty Pink Horrors would be 180pts and each one would be a ML3 psyker under the "each model is a psyker individually" plan, and you'd be putting out hundreds of heavy bolter shots a turn from that list.)

Um, when you divide up that squad of Purifiers into squads of 1 model each, they stop combining their powers. Like, you don't count them as the same squad when figuring out their powers. The same way you don't calculate Mastery Level stuff for your 10 purifiers when they're in 2 squads of 5, by calculating the total for each squad as though you have 10 purifiers in each unit.

Oh, no, you absolutely do treat a single 10-model Purifier squad combat squadded into two squads as two separate ML2 psykers (and by extension five split into one-model units as five different ML2 psykers). The ML isn't dependent on squad size, it's always 2 no matter how many Purifiers are there.

You would for Pink Horrors, though, since their ML is dependent on squad size; good catch. Twenty Pink Horrors would be twenty ML1 psykers, not twenty ML3 psykers.

Then for purifiers, just house rule their magic spell to account for the squad sizes. If 40k's rules were designed for Kill Team originally, their spell sure as hell wouldn't inflict 2d6 wounds, would it? Just make it deal one wound. Like it should.

That's still one hit to everyone within 9", at S5 AP4 Ignores Cover...

 JNAProductions wrote:
That's still one hit to everyone within 9", at S5 AP4 Ignores Cover...

Then make them target a single model with it instead of it being an AoE.

We're already doing house rules here to alter spell profiles, don't be shy about making stuff appropriately powerful.

And you still have 10 Warp Charges, minimum. And making it single-target nerfs it a little too much.

Honestly, here's what I would do. (So I can stop being a negative Nancy and instead be helpful!)

So long as at least one Purifier is on the board, you generate 2 Warp Charges. These can be used by any of the Purifiers, but only one can cast a power (well, two-they are ML 2) each turn. Cleansing Flame, specifically, deals 2d6 hits TOTAL to all enemies within 9", starting with the nearest.

For example, let's say there's a Purifier who has 4 enemies (Space Marine Scouts) within 9". He casts Cleansing Flame successfully, and rolls an 6 on 2d6. Since all the Scouts are wounded the same, he simply rolls all 6 dice immediately, but unluckily for him, only gets three wounds. Since it's AP4 Ignores Cover, the Scouts get no saves, and the three nearest Scouts die.

If, instead, it was an Ogryn and two IG Vets, he would roll to-wound separately. Let's say one Vet is closest, then the Ogryn, then the other Vet. He rolls 8 on 2d6, and starts rolling his wound dice one at a time. The first one comes up 2, killing the IG Vet, then he rolls three at a time, since the Ogryn has three wounds. He rolls a 3, 4, and a 6, doing two wounds to the Ogryn, and now has 4 wound rolls left. He rolls them one at a time till he gets a 4+, killing the Ogryn (unless, of course, the Ogryn had the Invuln Shield, in which case he would've been getting saves) and if he has any dice left over, he can try to roll 2+ to kill the last Vet.

Make sense?

 JNAProductions wrote:
And you still have 10 Warp Charges, minimum. And making it single-target nerfs it a little too much.

Honestly, here's what I would do. (So I can stop being a negative Nancy and instead be helpful!)

So long as at least one Purifier is on the board, you generate 2 Warp Charges. These can be used by any of the Purifiers, but only one can cast a power (well, two-they are ML 2) each turn. Cleansing Flame, specifically, deals 2d6 hits TOTAL to all enemies within 9", starting with the nearest.

For example, let's say there's a Purifier who has 4 enemies (Space Marine Scouts) within 9". He casts Cleansing Flame successfully, and rolls an 6 on 2d6. Since all the Scouts are wounded the same, he simply rolls all 6 dice immediately, but unluckily for him, only gets three wounds. Since it's AP4 Ignores Cover, the Scouts get no saves, and the three nearest Scouts die.

If, instead, it was an Ogryn and two IG Vets, he would roll to-wound separately. Let's say one Vet is closest, then the Ogryn, then the other Vet. He rolls 8 on 2d6, and starts rolling his wound dice one at a time. The first one comes up 2, killing the IG Vet, then he rolls three at a time, since the Ogryn has three wounds. He rolls a 3, 4, and a 6, doing two wounds to the Ogryn, and now has 4 wound rolls left. He rolls them one at a time till he gets a 4+, killing the Ogryn (unless, of course, the Ogryn had the Invuln Shield, in which case he would've been getting saves) and if he has any dice left over, he can try to roll 2+ to kill the last Vet.

Make sense?

Personally, I would reject the Purifier killing three guys with one spell as a concept, but if you wanna convince your opponent you should be allowed to kill up to 12 of his guys with one spell in a game where he only has 30 models, good luck.

If he clumps 12 of them all within 9". And you roll 12 on 2d6. And you don't fail any wound rolls.

Let me actually check the odds on that-we can't calculate the odds of 12 guys being within 9", so let's just assume that happens. Let's also assume that they're all Guardsmen, so they get no saves and are wounded on 2s.

1/36 chance of rolling a 12 on 2d6.

Then, 5/6 chance of wounding them, no saves. So ((5/6)^12)*(1/36) is a .3% chance. That's not a typo. It's literally less than a 1% chance of doing that.

Edit: As for killing three guys, let's check the odds on that. Again, assume all are in range and all are Guardsmen.

Average of 2d6 is 7, so that's 7 wound rolls. We need 2+s. So there's a good 99.8% chance that

Of course, if your enemy brings Scouts, now you need 3+s to wound (95.52% chance, still), and if he brings Space Marines, you now need 3+s and they get a 3+ armour save (18.84% chance).

Oh, also, I'd import another rule from Heralds of Ruin. D3 Warp Charge extras, rather than d6. So with one Purifier squad, you have a max of 5 dice to toss at a two warp charge power, and an average of only 4.

 JNAProductions wrote:
If he clumps 12 of them all within 9". And you roll 12 on 2d6. And you don't fail any wound rolls.

Let me actually check the odds on that-we can't calculate the odds of 12 guys being within 9", so let's just assume that happens. Let's also assume that they're all Guardsmen, so they get no saves and are wounded on 2s.

1/36 chance of rolling a 12 on 2d6.

Then, 5/6 chance of wounding them, no saves. So ((5/6)^12)*(1/36) is a .3% chance. That's not a typo. It's literally less than a 1% chance of doing that.

0.3% means it happens 3 times out of every 1,000 times you cast that spell. That's a lot more than the 0 out of 1,000 times it could happen if you just prevent him from doing it altogether. If you're a fan of percentages you should know you'd have to represent that difference as a percentage with the infinity symbol.

Yes. You know what happens AT LEAST every 1/36 times you cast the spell? You perils.

Also, I added more math. Space Marines (not Scouts-their lack of armour save kills them pretty good) have a less than 20% of even three dying.