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 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
I think the rerolling of 1s on invulns is just expensive gravy. On its own not maxed the cabal look great.

2 sorc, 1 rubric marine unit and 1 occult unit and If I cast a spell my unit can reroll ones until next psychic phase. That is awesome. Combined in a War Coven which allow each psycher to manifest 1 extra spell, reroll perils of warp and warlord traits I think that is great base for a force. Throw in the auxiliary and optional command and your war coven is now open for you to customize to maybe 1500 an up.

I think that if they never put in the Favored of Tzeentch to begin with we would not even notice because of the other cool stuff. rerolling 1s on saves when you all ready can get 3++ constantly is OP IMO and we should pay out the nose.

When you find yourself removing an entire 150 point squad when 1 squad of of Fire Warriors opens fire with an Ethereal nearby you will be thinking twice. Not to mention if your firing first you wont even wipe a full squad but end up leaving 5ish guys.

Lol, mileage will vary for sure. Doesn't everyone want to be nigh invulnerable? Still with all the AP3 and spell capability 3++ is very solid. 3++ with rerollable one consistently for all our power armor seems a bit unrealistic and out of balance (yup, I said it) thus the cost.

I realize I am in the minority here and that is ok. I am sure there will be times when I am like "Dang wish I had the rerollable ones. Having played Cegorachs Revenge (Harlie formation that allows relrollable 1s on saves) the rerollable 1s does come up feast or famine. However their base save is a 5++.




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 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
You do get to choose what you bring, and what tactics you use. You should have a mix of TSons and, say, Tzangors. Send the Tzangors after the little gribblies, and use your TSons as hammers.

That would be ideal. Problem is if you take all the units to get the rerollable 1s on saves you have like 350 points left which is not enough to do anything. Which is why I am considering dropping 2 units of OST which will free up 500 points.

Good point TSS. Though to start I am not going to worry about the reroll to saves. that seems like it should be reserved for big baller games of 2000+.

If I get my butt handed to me I might reconsider how to do so. or just run a maxed War Cabal which I think comes up under 1850. Would be interesting to see how these formations play on their own without additional unit support. Folks might cry "NO CHANCE" but hey, you get your rerollable 1s.

I cannot wait for us to start test playing this army

So I've been debating on what to pick up first, and I'm leaning towards Ahriman ro box of sorcs, 2 boxes of Rubrics and Magnus, OR Ahriman, Rubrics, Termies and a box of sorcs so I can run the War Cabal to start off with. Eventually I plan on getting Tzaangors and more sorcs to run the War Coven and Herd, but I'm torn between formation or badass model. XD

CaptainSomas wrote:
So I've been debating on what to pick up first, and I'm leaning towards Ahriman ro box of sorcs, 2 boxes of Rubrics and Magnus, OR Ahriman, Rubrics, Termies and a box of sorcs so I can run the War Cabal to start off with. Eventually I plan on getting Tzaangors and more sorcs to run the War Coven and Herd, but I'm torn between formation or badass model. XD

From the knowledge we have right now I think you would be better off with the ability to run the War Cabal.

Yeah, I was leaning towards that. I like the idea of a psyker heavy list with Rubrics and Tzaangors being meat shields. Still, Magnus is a gorgeous model. Maybe I can convince someone to spend 130 on me for Christmas, haha.

Bad idea no.9: The silver tower.
Take a bastion, plop a sorcerer coven on top, taking the jump infantry artefact. Give them a brutal cc infantry bodyguard.(I'm thinking mutilators give you best bang for footprint, but ymmv). Stick a shooty unit like oblitorators in the bastion.
Fish for writhing worldscape, and harness powers on a 3+.

Use worldwrith to fly the bastion around blasting things, summoning thjngs and buffing self. You can become jump infantry and jump off whenever you want for a charge.

Only..1400 ish points. Terrible idea.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Bad idea no.9: The silver tower.
Take a bastion, plop a sorcerer coven on top, taking the jump infantry artefact. Give them a brutal cc infantry bodyguard.(I'm thinking mutilators give you best bang for footprint, but ymmv). Stick a shooty unit like oblitorators in the bastion.
Fish for writhing worldscape, and harness powers on a 3+.

Use worldwrith to fly the bastion around blasting things, summoning thjngs and buffing self. You can become jump infantry and jump off whenever you want for a charge.

Only..1400 ish points. Terrible idea.

Gave me a good laugh.

Aren't the termi T5 ? With their good invu + jump infantry + T5, aren't good enough ?

 godardc wrote:
Aren't the termi T5 ? With their good invu + jump infantry + T5, aren't good enough ?

Only T5 in a formation in which they require to be within 12" of two other units.

 Sasori wrote:

CaptainSomas wrote:
So I've been debating on what to pick up first, and I'm leaning towards Ahriman ro box of sorcs, 2 boxes of Rubrics and Magnus, OR Ahriman, Rubrics, Termies and a box of sorcs so I can run the War Cabal to start off with. Eventually I plan on getting Tzaangors and more sorcs to run the War Coven and Herd, but I'm torn between formation or badass model. XD

From the knowledge we have right now I think you would be better off with the ability to run the War Cabal.

Agreed, that is a great formation to start with. You only then need an Auxiliary for Grand Coven I believe.

You don't need the T5, War Cabal terminators with their reroll are durable enough. Against 750pts of Scatterbikes :

28(4)(2/3)(5/6)(1/6)(1/6) = 1.7W

You lose about 70pts.

By comparison, Rubrics against 450pts of Scatterbikes :

28(4)(2/3)(5/6)(1/6) = 10.4W (failed 2's)
28(4)(2/3)(5/6)(1/6)(1/3) = 3.5W (failed rerolls)

You're losing over 300pts.

The lesson here is that even with a reroll, Rubrics are more than 3x less durable against high-volume AP-.

So... plan according!

In ITC you only get a 4+ on re-rolls for 2+. But nobody really bring that many scatbikes any more, Warp spiders are what you have to worry about with their potential rends.

750pts of Scarab termies comes to about 40 models of Warp Spiders. You'd lose about 2 models in each squad to rends, with an unmodified reroll and 3++.

Major differences appear once you get into the AP-. Scarab termies lose about 1x model (40pts), Rubricae lose about 8x (~180pts).

This isn't nearly as extreme in ITC with the modified reroll on a 2+. But it's still worth noting.

I'd be surprised if the maxed War Cabal made it to the meta.

Its too inflexible. You have your minimum chunk (1500 points or so) leaving you enough for maybe a Heldrake plus a few upgrades and that's it.

That gives you some very resilient terminators - but their damage output is still a dozen S4 AP3 shots with maybe a couple of heavy weapons - which doesn't seem very concerning given its pushing nearly half your points. Rubrics re-rolling 1s hold up a bit better than MEQ against AP4 & up (and considerably better at AP3 and down) but given their cost its unclear this is enough. Again its more low volume AP3 bolter fire.

Really its going to come down to whether your ML (14-19 before any other investment) will make a mess of the enemy. Its difficult to theorycraft given the wide variety of disciplines (and random power generation) but I am not sure it will work.

More importantly what makes thousand sons any better at this spam ML approach than other CSM? Being able to try and manifest one more power than usual (probably Tzeentch's Firestorm) doesn't seem like much of a perk. Tzeentch should be a more interesting discipline now - but is it obviously better than other options?

I guess that is all a bit negative but that's my thoughts at the moment. Its the same old CSM problem - everything looks expensive for what you get.

Anyone have any information on the demon formations yet? I thought there was a formation that allowed you to take 1-3 Lord of Change or Fateweaver straight up.

There is. Its Fateweaver + 1-3 LoC, allows them to reroll 1s when manifesting psychic powers, as well as for to hit and to wound rolls.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
There is. Its Fateweaver + 1-3 LoC, allows them to reroll 1s when manifesting psychic powers, as well as for to hit and to wound rolls.

Thats... wicked as all hell.

I'd do just Fatey + 1 LoC to keep the cost low... but, that's a juicy buff.

Tyel wrote:
Really its going to come down to whether your ML (14-19 before any other investment) will make a mess of the enemy. Its difficult to theorycraft given the wide variety of disciplines (and random power generation) but I am not sure it will work.

Not only that but you're going to be tailoring your powers to your matchup.

So it's difficult to theorycraft without knowing what's on the table.

CaptainSomas wrote:
Yeah, I was leaning towards that. I like the idea of a psyker heavy list with Rubrics and Tzaangors being meat shields. Still, Magnus is a gorgeous model. Maybe I can convince someone to spend 130 on me for Christmas, haha.

Just get them online for like 30% off =P makes Magnus a bit more affordable for sure. Basically get a couple kits for free if you buy all the new ones.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
There is. Its Fateweaver + 1-3 LoC, allows them to reroll 1s when manifesting psychic powers, as well as for to hit and to wound rolls.

Can anyone post the page where it describes how this formation can be used? Really, really interested in putting a LoC in my regular CSM army because I love flexibility of beatstick or psychic powers, plus, I'm about to super-convert one of my own.

Debilitate wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
There is. Its Fateweaver + 1-3 LoC, allows them to reroll 1s when manifesting psychic powers, as well as for to hit and to wound rolls.

Can anyone post the page where it describes how this formation can be used? Really, really interested in putting a LoC in my regular CSM army because I love flexibility of beatstick or psychic powers, plus, I'm about to super-convert one of my own.

Its a formation so you use it... like a formation

Debilitate wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
There is. Its Fateweaver + 1-3 LoC, allows them to reroll 1s when manifesting psychic powers, as well as for to hit and to wound rolls.

Can anyone post the page where it describes how this formation can be used? Really, really interested in putting a LoC in my regular CSM army because I love flexibility of beatstick or psychic powers, plus, I'm about to super-convert one of my own.

What do you mean how? like what do you have to take it with?

I thought it could be taken as part of the TS decurion as an auxiliary choice - I hadn't seen it mentioned on any of the sites. I was just curious.

Debilitate wrote:
I thought it could be taken as part of the TS decurion as an auxiliary choice - I hadn't seen it mentioned on any of the sites. I was just curious.

Its a daemon faction formation so it's for the daemon decurion, not TS's decurion

This might be useful if you want to understand the Detachments and Formations.

My autism got the better of me - I thought it was an aux choice and not just a standalone formation. Thanks for the pic~

Gahd damnit, I hate these formation detachments.
Four sorcerers in the core detachment to max it out. No. I obviously want to take all the sorcerers in the war coven to get the 3+ casting roll
On the plus side, the detachment bonus is so weak . Soweak. It's nowhere near worth losing objective secured.

Grand coven looks good. I like the benefits and the reroll 1s to hit until the next psychic phase is sweet on the War Coven.

Won't be maxing them for rerollable 1s to save though. I will take my chances with a 3++. If I'm not back in 10 send a tzaangor herd in after me!!


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Looks like i can bring in additional tanks for auxiliary formations if I have the points.

Right now looking at

Exalted sorcerer ML3
2 exalted sorcerer ML2
3 disks
2 10 man rubric with Soul reaper
5 man occult

1 heldrake

Approximately 1600

The rest on legion armor or tzaangor warheard up to 1750 to 2000.

What are people's thoughts on what maximizing means for the purposes of the blessings of tzeentch rule? That is, do I just need to take the max number of units or max number of units + max sizes for those units?

So to get the blessing rule for say the war coven what does that look like model wise?

To get the rerolls to saves, you need at minimum, 4 sorcerors , 3 rubrics and 3 scarab occult.

 buddha wrote:
What are people's thoughts on what maximizing means for the purposes of the blessings of tzeentch rule? That is, do I just need to take the max number of units or max number of units + max sizes for those units?

So to get the blessing rule for say the war coven what does that look like model wise?

Right now I don't think it's worth it. Your list will not be diverse enough if you try to achieve it, it's just to heavy of a points sink. The War Cabal would pretty much be your entire list for instance. You just need the max number of units to achieve it.