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2016/12/04 17:53:48
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
Roknar wrote: Not sure what the complaints about those formations are. Traitor's hate is still valid. It has the renegade knight which wasn't listed in legions and it has the Black Crusade detachment, which also wasn't listed.
So any legion, including TSons, can still make a black crusade detachment and can still use the formations with their legion benefits on their own.
TSons just don't get these in a grand coven detachment or whatever their decurion is called.
Actually from the leaks, granted they aren't verified, all of the legion detachments in traitor legions are the black crusade detachment. They may be called something different but the core and aux formations that make them up are the same ones from traitors hate exactly. I'm confused and still trying to figure it out but it seems like you take the black crusade detachment and get to add a legion specific rule on top of it.
The black crusade is a detachment consisting of a bunch of formations (like all the legion detachments). The black crusade itself is not in the traitor legion supplement. Only the new formations from that book were added.
Those formations also happen to be the same ones used in the legion detachments.
Those formations and the black crusade are generic CSM detachments, so you can apply the passive legion buffs to them.
So say you take a chaos warband and the heldrake formation. Both can be taken on their own and be given legion flavour.
But every legion also has a detachment that uses those formations so you may as well use them that way. That then unlocks the detachment benefits on top of the formation benefits.
Or you take them in a Black Crusade, same deal, only different benefits.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/04 18:00:58
2016/12/04 18:23:33
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
Roknar wrote: Not sure what the complaints about those formations are. Traitor's hate is still valid. It has the renegade knight which wasn't listed in legions and it has the Black Crusade detachment, which also wasn't listed.
So any legion, including TSons, can still make a black crusade detachment and can still use the formations with their legion benefits on their own.
TSons just don't get these in a grand coven detachment or whatever their decurion is called.
Actually from the leaks, granted they aren't verified, all of the legion detachments in traitor legions are the black crusade detachment. They may be called something different but the core and aux formations that make them up are the same ones from traitors hate exactly. I'm confused and still trying to figure it out but it seems like you take the black crusade detachment and get to add a legion specific rule on top of it.
The black crusade is a detachment consisting of a bunch of formations (like all the legion detachments). The black crusade itself is not in the traitor legion supplement. Only the new formations from that book were added.
Those formations also happen to be the same ones used in the legion detachments.
Those formations and the black crusade are generic CSM detachments, so you can apply the passive legion buffs to them.
So say you take a chaos warband and the heldrake formation. Both can be taken on their own and be given legion flavour.
But every legion also has a detachment that uses those formations so you may as well use them that way. That then unlocks the detachment benefits on top of the formation benefits.
Or you take them in a Black Crusade, same deal, only different benefits.
I think we might be saying essentially the same thing. Yours sounds clearer though.
The legion specific 'detachment of formations' each looks like copy pastes of the black crusade. They're basically black crusade but replacing the black crusade detachment bonus with a different bonus based on your legion. All the core and aux choices are the same as black crusade.
2016/12/04 18:29:53
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
Yoyoyo wrote: Nobody has said much about the Daemon Princes, but that TS staff relic makes them absolute monsters.
Once you activate Force they're already on a 4++.
Actually, the staff (Seer's Bane, I assume, that wounds on Leadership) is actually better on Exalted Sorcerers. They are Leadership 10, as opposed to a Prince's 9. So Sorcerers double out T5, whereas Princes don't.
A prince gets +1 Ld from VotLW.
its already in his profile so is considered to be counted towards the Ld9
2016/12/04 22:27:18
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
Yoyoyo wrote: Nobody has said much about the Daemon Princes, but that TS staff relic makes them absolute monsters.
Once you activate Force they're already on a 4++.
Actually, the staff (Seer's Bane, I assume, that wounds on Leadership) is actually better on Exalted Sorcerers. They are Leadership 10, as opposed to a Prince's 9. So Sorcerers double out T5, whereas Princes don't.
A prince gets +1 Ld from VotLW.
Princes come stock with VotLW. Still only Leadership 9.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2016/12/05 02:04:18
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
As the OP I'm still here. Just picked up WoM today and haven't had much chance to look at it yet. Preordered Traitor Legions as well, and yes, I'd like this thread to be a place to discus all the legions. I'm an old school Deathguard player, so I'll be paying particular attention to their abilities (I've seen the leaks, and hope they're true as they sound solid enough...but I'm not willing to spend a lot of time writing things up based on leaks).
2016/12/05 05:45:31
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: And what if you get Machine Curse and Warpmetal Armor? now your left with nothing to take out tanks except a 200 point chainfist...
I'm quite fond of the saying "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade".
It would be wise to have contingencies in place.
If you're curious, I diced out 6x games to get an idea of how this might look in practice.
It's more the favt that normal terminators have the option to take close combat weapons other than power swords and force staves. The idea of a 250pt unit that can barely hurt 2+ armour units or vehicles is hard to stomach.
DFTT
2016/12/05 20:09:19
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
I can't figure out what they were thinking with the warpflamers after seeing the codex. At 7ppm they reduce your damage output (ap3 to ap4) and also have a chance to give the enemy FNP. Plus, they can't be used on overwatch due to rubric marines having slow and purposeful. Even if free I wouldn't take then.
If you're that concerned about 2+, roll on Biomancy with your second roll.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
buddha wrote: I can't figure out what they were thinking with the warpflamers after seeing the codex. At 7ppm they reduce your damage output (ap3 to ap4) and also have a chance to give the enemy FNP. Plus, they can't be used on overwatch due to rubric marines having slow and purposeful. Even if free I wouldn't take then.
To be fair they only reduce your damage output if you're hitting only one model. Once you're hitting 2-3 it more evens out.
That said, I'd say they were only worth it of they were allowed overwatch with it and that's not possible without the one artifact.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 22:30:01
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2016/12/05 23:50:13
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
Rubricae are very good units to catch premiere multiwound melee like TWC, Wraiths, and MCs.
I think this is their best use... there's not many units that have easy access to a 3++, Fearless, VotLW, and a Force Weapon without committing a HQ.
They aren't points-efficient as far as shooting goes. Scarab Terminators are nearly as dangerous (7 versus 9 bolter hits) while being twice as survivable, and their ML2 Sorcerer is cheaper on a points per-wound basis.
Rubricae cannot be the spearhead without psychic support, which makes them a poor platform for a flamer weapon. That's the bigger issue than anything else.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/05 23:52:44
2016/12/06 13:21:13
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
No, the problem is that the flamers are REALLY bad to begin with.
As in, debatfully a downgrade level of bad.
IF they were a free sidegrade, there would be a point considering them. IF they were a 7 point upgrade for a regualr marine unit with regular bolters, then there would be a point.
But compared to an AP3 bolter? its an upgrade as often if not more than its a downgrade, and rubrics cant even overwatch so you lose the anti-assault aspect of the flamers.
Warpflamers take the medal when it comes to "why would I even bother" options, and given that's its on a unit that is hard to justify to begin with, that's amazing.
As much as I love 1ksons, and I'm even getting a 1ksons army due to this release, rubrics are trash. even with the grand coven they are borderline playable for casual play.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
2016/12/06 13:56:41
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
A regular flamer doesn't replace a AP3 bolter! (This alone should make it a free option.)
A regular flamer doesn't usually give the target Feel No Pain.
Honestly, I wouldn't even take the Warpflamer is it was free, except maybe, *maybe* on a single min-size Rubric unit.
I think GW's thoughtprocess when they priced the Warpflamer is "a regular flamer is AP5 and costs 5 points, so the Warpflamer should cost slightly more since it's AP4. Set it at 7 ppm", and then totally forgot (or didn't care/think about) all the drawbacks that comes with the Warpflamer...
But now you might think "oho, but the Warpflamer should cost alot because Thousand Sons are a small elite army who will have trouble dealing with the flamers intended target; hordes."
Well, not necessarily. With all the decent anti-GEQ psychic powers a TS army has at it's disposal (Tzeentch Firestorm, a Primaris, is really effing good vs GEQ's), there's also nothing stopping the TS-player from adding other anti-horde elements from the CSM army, such as Helbrutes with Heavy Flamers, Predators, putting cheap Havoc Launchers on the Rhinos, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/06 14:00:37
5500 pts 6500 pts 7000 pts 9000 pts 13.000 pts
2016/12/06 14:05:46
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
I have a few people excited by this in my area, including myself, so I'm trying to organise my thoughts. You can find reviews of the rules and formations elsewhere, I'm sure, so this is more a stream of consciousness. Firstly - not top tier in the slightest, but a decent mid table army with cool funky stuff, which for most CSM players is a massive leg up from where we were.
What Are Thousand Sons Good At?
Spoiler:
- highly survivable against low AP firepower. 4++ as standard, 3++ when under the effect of a blessing
- AP3 guns. In a game dominated by majority 3+ armour saves, the sons have a leg up in taking down these types of units much quicker. Cover saves aren't always plentiful, and even if they are, they're a worse save than the one you're negating.
- Psychics. Big warp charge pools and multiple psykers with access to a lot of good lores.
Summary They don't die much. they kill heavy infantry and they have access to mind bullets to cover weaknesses and buffs to become more effective. Finding the balance between mind bullets and buffs seems to be the key to making the army relatively effective.
What Are Thousand Sons Bad At?
Spoiler:
- surviving against high volumes of firepower. You will fail saves eventually.
- killing tanks. The standard armoury contains 1 S5 rending gun and 1 S8 gun, with no access to powerfists, chainfists or grenades. Killing tanks will be done either by your supporting units or through the aforementioned mind bullets.
- Mobility/killing hordes - mentioned here because while there are flamers aplenty in the arsenal, Sons are not mobile enough to get in positions to use them effectively and have no overwatch capability.
- Combat. We suck in combat. Even our combaty unit has AP3 as standard so while Sons survive well against units hitting with AP2, they are so pillow fisted in return
- Numbers. While Sons are survivable, they are expensive, especially with the number of sorcerors needed just to run some of the core formations, which also provide the psychic power. Every loss hurts.
Summary Through allies, wargear, other CSM codex choices or through psychic powers, a Thousand Sons army needs to add tank killing, AP2, extraction from close combat and the ability to get to objectives.
The Psychic Power Conundrum
Spoiler:
Thousand Sons have a lot of psychic juice, and the army really relies on its psychic to cover its gaps and pull it through games. When psychic power generation is random, this brings an inherent risk. Likewise, there are some great anti horde and anti tank powers out there, but the core mechanic for survivability requires blessings. This presents us with the psychic conundrum - what is the best balance between fishing for blessings and mind bullets, and how reliable can we make it?
Firstly, on blessings: Every blessing comes with the bonus of +1 to your Thousand Son Invulnerable save. There are 2 powers out that that give +1 to invuns and they are both warp charge 1, so while it may seem like a waste of dice to cast Force for your invun boost, it's perfectly viable. However, with so many psychic dice, buffing your Sons to horrendous levels is a perfectly legit strategy.
Lores To Consider:
Spoiler:
Biomancy - while there are 3 blessings in the lore, only 1 of them affects a unit. Solo disc sorcerors or Scarab cult leaders can make great use of them both though and the icing on the cake is Endurance, making Scarab cult in particular horrendous to get rid of
Divination - The money maker for most armies. The primaris is a blessing, so you are guaranteed access. It's also a damn useful blessing for an army with small but high quality firepower. There are also 3 other unit based blessings in the lore (the chance of getting Forewarning is a great reason to include Tzaangors, who suddenly become quite durable), including Perfect Timing, which is a killer when you're packing AP3 bolters. Divination has to be a go to pick for your blessing options
Telepathy - Invisibility is god mode as most 40k players know. But outside of that and the primaris, the blessings are unnecesary (your invun will likely be better than your cover save and you are fearless already). Telepathy can be strongly considered because Psychic Shriek deals with monstrous creatures and AP2 very well, especially now it no longer requires a to hit roll but outside of that, Telepathy is subpar unless you're trying to do an invisibile Scarab deathstar, which doesn't stand up to other invisible type death stars out there.
Sinistrum - Like Telepathy, there's a doozy of a blessing in Warp Fate, a psyker only blessing which, like Biomancy, is useufll for Scarab leaders and disc sorcerors and Death Hex for dealing with other Death Stars. On the level of Telepathy in that you can risk a cheeky roll.
Tzeentch - Tzeentch is a tricky one. For your big psykers - the ML3s, Ahriman and Magnus, the mere presence of Siphon makes the lore worth a look. Despite 2 dud powers, if you want mind bullets, going all in on lore of tzeentch is not a bad shout. You have a great tankbuster in doombolt. You also have AP2 on 2 of the witchfires to cover some bases. The powers are expensive though, which is why it's a bit all or nothing - it really needs to pull siphon to work.
Summary: If you're going for Scarabstar, with a sorceror with the movement relic, another with the AP2 staff, going all in on telepathy or sinistrum to pull invisibility or Warp Fate is worth a look. Otherwise, I think after taking your mandatory rolls on Tzeentch, commiting everything on Divination will give you the most reliable results for overall army effectiveness.
A note on Ahriman. Ahriman is a special case. His rules are designed to throw witchfires, so using him as a buffbot when you can get cheaper ML3 psykers elsewhere is a waste. 3 rolls on Tzeentch gives him a decent shot at Siphon. If you have what you need after that, he can always take a cheeky Psychic Shriek. Ahriman's key benefit, though, is getting his slow moving rubrics into midfield where they are best suited. By taking him you are commiting to more mind bullets than blessings, but the additional pre battle mobility cannot be discounted.
Covering the Gaps
Spoiler:
CSM: obliterators and forgefiends are solid picks for anti tank. A Tzeentch Lord on a disc with sigil of corruption, power fist and lighting claw can give you a fast beater element, though similar results can be achieved with an exalted sorceror with the relic staff. likewise a demon prince.
Demons: My preferred choice. horrors provide warp charge and a backfield objective sitter, flamers provide *some* anti horde capability and screamers provide a fast combat and anti tank element. What's nice about screamers here is that committing to divination for your thousand sons blessings also gives you a good shot at pulling forewarning (which is otherwise useless for sons without tzaangors). The new loci from WoM giving them either IWND or protecting them with dice shenanigans is a nice bonus too.
Both of these options stay in theme, but bring a level of flexibility to an otherwise rigid army.
Formations
Spoiler:
Having looked at the formations, there's some great options to slot into other armies, but in order to take Thousand Sons, you're running the War Cabal. The Favoured of Tzeentch rule requires too much of a points investment (1350 minimum) to go after and requires you to spread the buffs around quite a bit, while also relying on mind bullets for your anti tank. However the core formation benefit of rerolling 1s to hit after successfully manifesting a psychic power combines the blessings and mind bullets combo quite nicely.If you didn't want to overcommit on your sorcerors (like taking just Ahriman or just 1 exalted), running a CAD might be more beneficial, especially since obsec is such an important rule.
Overall I think finding the balance between units and psychic powers is what makes the Thousand Sons fun, but also makes them a little boom or bust.
TL/DR: Take allies to cover inherent weakenesses in an elite, survivable army. Try to strike a balance between buffs and mind bullets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/06 14:22:29
2016/12/06 16:38:12
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
I have a few people excited by this in my area, including myself, so I'm trying to organise my thoughts. You can find reviews of the rules and formations elsewhere, I'm sure, so this is more a stream of consciousness. Firstly - not top tier in the slightest, but a decent mid table army with cool funky stuff, which for most CSM players is a massive leg up from where we were.
What Are Thousand Sons Good At?
Spoiler:
- highly survivable against low AP firepower. 4++ as standard, 3++ when under the effect of a blessing
- AP3 guns. In a game dominated by majority 3+ armour saves, the sons have a leg up in taking down these types of units much quicker. Cover saves aren't always plentiful, and even if they are, they're a worse save than the one you're negating.
- Psychics. Big warp charge pools and multiple psykers with access to a lot of good lores.
Summary They don't die much. they kill heavy infantry and they have access to mind bullets to cover weaknesses and buffs to become more effective. Finding the balance between mind bullets and buffs seems to be the key to making the army relatively effective.
What Are Thousand Sons Bad At?
Spoiler:
- surviving against high volumes of firepower. You will fail saves eventually.
- killing tanks. The standard armoury contains 1 S5 rending gun and 1 S8 gun, with no access to powerfists, chainfists or grenades. Killing tanks will be done either by your supporting units or through the aforementioned mind bullets.
- Mobility/killing hordes - mentioned here because while there are flamers aplenty in the arsenal, Sons are not mobile enough to get in positions to use them effectively and have no overwatch capability.
- Combat. We suck in combat. Even our combaty unit has AP3 as standard so while Sons survive well against units hitting with AP2, they are so pillow fisted in return
- Numbers. While Sons are survivable, they are expensive, especially with the number of sorcerors needed just to run some of the core formations, which also provide the psychic power. Every loss hurts.
Summary Through allies, wargear, other CSM codex choices or through psychic powers, a Thousand Sons army needs to add tank killing, AP2, extraction from close combat and the ability to get to objectives.
The Psychic Power Conundrum
Spoiler:
Thousand Sons have a lot of psychic juice, and the army really relies on its psychic to cover its gaps and pull it through games. When psychic power generation is random, this brings an inherent risk. Likewise, there are some great anti horde and anti tank powers out there, but the core mechanic for survivability requires blessings. This presents us with the psychic conundrum - what is the best balance between fishing for blessings and mind bullets, and how reliable can we make it?
Firstly, on blessings: Every blessing comes with the bonus of +1 to your Thousand Son Invulnerable save. There are 2 powers out that that give +1 to invuns and they are both warp charge 1, so while it may seem like a waste of dice to cast Force for your invun boost, it's perfectly viable. However, with so many psychic dice, buffing your Sons to horrendous levels is a perfectly legit strategy.
Lores To Consider:
Spoiler:
Biomancy - while there are 3 blessings in the lore, only 1 of them affects a unit. Solo disc sorcerors or Scarab cult leaders can make great use of them both though and the icing on the cake is Endurance, making Scarab cult in particular horrendous to get rid of
Divination - The money maker for most armies. The primaris is a blessing, so you are guaranteed access. It's also a damn useful blessing for an army with small but high quality firepower. There are also 3 other unit based blessings in the lore (the chance of getting Forewarning is a great reason to include Tzaangors, who suddenly become quite durable), including Perfect Timing, which is a killer when you're packing AP3 bolters. Divination has to be a go to pick for your blessing options
Telepathy - Invisibility is god mode as most 40k players know. But outside of that and the primaris, the blessings are unnecesary (your invun will likely be better than your cover save and you are fearless already). Telepathy can be strongly considered because Psychic Shriek deals with monstrous creatures and AP2 very well, especially now it no longer requires a to hit roll but outside of that, Telepathy is subpar unless you're trying to do an invisibile Scarab deathstar, which doesn't stand up to other invisible type death stars out there.
Sinistrum - Like Telepathy, there's a doozy of a blessing in Warp Fate, a psyker only blessing which, like Biomancy, is useufll for Scarab leaders and disc sorcerors and Death Hex for dealing with other Death Stars. On the level of Telepathy in that you can risk a cheeky roll.
Tzeentch - Tzeentch is a tricky one. For your big psykers - the ML3s, Ahriman and Magnus, the mere presence of Siphon makes the lore worth a look. Despite 2 dud powers, if you want mind bullets, going all in on lore of tzeentch is not a bad shout. You have a great tankbuster in doombolt. You also have AP2 on 2 of the witchfires to cover some bases. The powers are expensive though, which is why it's a bit all or nothing - it really needs to pull siphon to work.
Summary: If you're going for Scarabstar, with a sorceror with the movement relic, another with the AP2 staff, going all in on telepathy or sinistrum to pull invisibility or Warp Fate is worth a look. Otherwise, I think after taking your mandatory rolls on Tzeentch, commiting everything on Divination will give you the most reliable results for overall army effectiveness.
A note on Ahriman. Ahriman is a special case. His rules are designed to throw witchfires, so using him as a buffbot when you can get cheaper ML3 psykers elsewhere is a waste. 3 rolls on Tzeentch gives him a decent shot at Siphon. If you have what you need after that, he can always take a cheeky Psychic Shriek. Ahriman's key benefit, though, is getting his slow moving rubrics into midfield where they are best suited. By taking him you are commiting to more mind bullets than blessings, but the additional pre battle mobility cannot be discounted.
Covering the Gaps
Spoiler:
CSM: obliterators and forgefiends are solid picks for anti tank. A Tzeentch Lord on a disc with sigil of corruption, power fist and lighting claw can give you a fast beater element, though similar results can be achieved with an exalted sorceror with the relic staff. likewise a demon prince.
Demons: My preferred choice. horrors provide warp charge and a backfield objective sitter, flamers provide *some* anti horde capability and screamers provide a fast combat and anti tank element. What's nice about screamers here is that committing to divination for your thousand sons blessings also gives you a good shot at pulling forewarning (which is otherwise useless for sons without tzaangors). The new loci from WoM giving them either IWND or protecting them with dice shenanigans is a nice bonus too.
Both of these options stay in theme, but bring a level of flexibility to an otherwise rigid army.
Formations
Spoiler:
Having looked at the formations, there's some great options to slot into other armies, but in order to take Thousand Sons, you're running the War Cabal. The Favoured of Tzeentch rule requires too much of a points investment (1350 minimum) to go after and requires you to spread the buffs around quite a bit, while also relying on mind bullets for your anti tank. However the core formation benefit of rerolling 1s to hit after successfully manifesting a psychic power combines the blessings and mind bullets combo quite nicely.If you didn't want to overcommit on your sorcerors (like taking just Ahriman or just 1 exalted), running a CAD might be more beneficial, especially since obsec is such an important rule.
Overall I think finding the balance between units and psychic powers is what makes the Thousand Sons fun, but also makes them a little boom or bust.
TL/DR: Take allies to cover inherent weakenesses in an elite, survivable army. Try to strike a balance between buffs and mind bullets.
really good stuff here. If I was not at work I would add in. Quick question. what are mind bullets?
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2016/12/06 17:34:43
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
koooaei wrote: Yeah, probably they did mean blessing psy power. Seems not so great - especially for the overpriced rubrics.
What's bad about it? You get a free +1 invul when using a blessing. It's probably the best rule we have recieved in WoM.
Personally i've first got an impression that they simplyget +1 to inv. Which seems more appropriate to me. They become 3+/3++. A tiny bit more reasonable for such a price. 5++ cultists and marines. Back to the old MoT that used to add 5++ if there'sno inv in the first place. But nope. That's why i feel a bit disappointed. Well, on the other hand it's gona be easier to chop em down with my powerklaws.
2016/12/06 18:30:38
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Traitor Legions, Currently Thousand Sons
You need blessings like Invis and Warp Fate, or Rubrics won't be survivable enough. Versus 200x Scatterlasers:
Invis -- 212pts lost
Warp Fate -- 284pts lost
Decurion Warriors -- 361pts lost
Endurance -- 426pts lost
2+ Cover -- 426pts lost
Unsupported -- 852pts lost
Rubrics themselves can be made decently durable. But that's at 23ppm. Don't forget you're paying 40pts for a Force Weapon and 1ML on the Sgt.
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
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13.000 pts 
