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 Darksider wrote:
What do you guys think about the Rahati War Sect?

I want to build mine with Magnus (AOS Archaon Drogbar Model XD) with some Daemonprinces. (all ML 3 with spellfamiliar and wings)

Should i give the DPs armour? And which relics should i give them?

The armour is completely up to you, personally I wouldn't in order to deny grav weapons that your opponant may be carrying. Also, the use of cursed earth will give all your princes a 3++ re-tolling on 1s anyway.

The relics are much better on sorcerors than DP so I wouldn't bother.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:
There was actually a whole article on that.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/12/08/wrath-of-magnus-review-formation-rehati-war-sect/

PA is not recommended as it makes you more vulnerable to Grav weaponry.

These guys some up the rehati nicely, I still don't think the relics are too worth it really: they make the DP a little bit better but they are a lot scarier IMO on cheap sorcerors who can defend your big units.

Yoyoyo wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The boon power would actually be okay if the table weren't so blasted large and therefore not reliable.

You need some kind of results mitigation to dodge Spawnhood and a character who benefits from most of the table.

Exalted Sorcerers are good choices, having 3W definitely helps.

--> +1 to Ranged Strength (S10 beam, or S5 pistol)
--> +1 to CC strength (S7 Force Staff, S10 with Iron Arm)
--> +1 to T (with Disc, T6)
--> +1 to Armor Save (2+ save)
--> +1 to BS (better scatter)
--> EW, Shrouded, FNP, +1W, reroll failed armor saves
--> Fleshbane, ID, +1A, Shred, Hatred, Poison, +1 WS, +1 Init
--> Adamantium Will, auto-wound on Deny
--> Crusader, Fleet

Everything is pretty useful except for Stubborn and Icy Aura.

I do like the idea just wish it was str 2. I understand Tzeentch likes his jokes and all and will screw his servants if it pleases him.

If your not playing waac then go for it and maybe get something good.

What are folks thoughts on discs? They add up with 3 or more exalted sorcerers. Would you run them as a unit or solo on the board? Otherwise I am thinking of burying ones without discs in units of Rubrics and termies.

Also thinking about magnetizing Ahriman and the others to switch between discs and bases as needed for different games.

 Skerr wrote:

What are folks thoughts on discs? They add up with 3 or more exalted sorcerers. Would you run them as a unit or solo on the board? Otherwise I am thinking of burying ones without discs in units of Rubrics and termies.

Also thinking about magnetizing Ahriman and the others to switch between discs and bases as needed for different games.

Sorcerors with discs, run them in a single unit so you only need one blessing to get the +1 invul on all your sorcerors, although you could cast shrouded on them for a 2+ jink save, either way stick them in one unit and split them off when needed.

You got the right idea with none disc sorcerors, they can sit in a unit and throw out witchfires/blessings as needed plus the astral grimoire can give a big unit 12" movement anyway without your discs.

You are spot on with Ahrihman there, I am just going to build them all on bases and stick them on seperately built discs when needed though.

Discs offer way more stuff than just a 12" move. You can have that with the grimmoire anyways. Discs give your exalteds (and Ahriman Toughness 5, which goes a long way towards negating instant death (so few str 10 shots outside combat nowdays). Also, discs give the ability to turbo boost 24", which will ensure that your sorcerers will be always able to outrun whatever is pursuing them, will always be able to grab that objective over there or achieve "behind the enemy lines" objectives and also will be able to utilize JSJ tactics. Finally, one more attack is not nothing, considering that an exalted sorcerer has 3 attacks on profile and a pistol. With a disc, an exalted sorcerer has 6 attacks on the charge. A unit of Ahriman's exiles on discs have a total of 24 attacks at Ws 5, str 6 and ap4 before buffs. That alone is a huge amount of close combat considering WoM is all about that magic. With a Force spell cast, your 24 attacks have instant death. No matter what you are hitting, they are bound to roll a snake eye after so many attacks.

Wow. Good stuff guys. Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also someone said they would run a disc sorcerer in a warherd and while it won't move and charge with the herd it could still keep up like "ork boys" I think or a similiar situation with orks.

Not sure how, thoughts?

The Tzaangors can stretch out to keep the Disc Sorcerer in coherency.

Then, they all Charge together with the reroll from Fleet.

Yeah I wouldn't understand why anyone would ever take Ahriman without a disc now. It helps alleviate his biggest issues.

Has anyone come up with a good method for dealing with AV so far?

The only thing I can come up with is including the Oblit detachment.

Atm it's looking like mix of SD Tzeentch powers and fishing for some haywire/hull point destroying powers. However, yes, it would be much more reliable to ally in a cult of destruction.

 Sasori wrote:
Has anyone come up with a good method for dealing with AV so far?

The only thing I can come up with is including the Oblit detachment.

Magnus has 2 str D shots. Also, each roll on the Heretech discipline has 50% to give you a hull point stripping power. Finally, melta bombs on your champions.

Within the Sons formations, there's really only predators and forgefiends.

Allies gives a lot more flexibility - screamers, burning chariots, cult of destruction, iron warriors cad etc.

I second heretech. It's good. Also, melee.

Am I missing something here? Scarab Occult Terminators do not have Aura of Dark Glory? Meaning they only have a 5++?

*EDIT: Nm. I'm an idiot. they just went around it differently.



What book is the Discipline for Change out of ? Or better yet does anyone have a pic of it? I'm in the middle of typing up my own datasheets to keep everything simplified and on a couple pages instead of a few books. It would be greatly appreciated.

 koooaei wrote:
I second heretech. It's good. Also, melee.

TS have pretty good access to Spawn to wreck Rhinos.

Since they have a Mark, they're 4++ under Telekine Dome and 3++ under Forewarning.

The discipline of change is in the Curse of the Wulfen book.

But if you don't have the book, go out and buy it but whatever you do don't follow this link: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/40k-new-chaos-daemon-psychic-powers-confirmed.html

So Ahriman with Triple Warpshock in a Grand Coven means he gets 18 shots with BS 5 at S5/AP4 and re-rolls of 1s? That seems pretty good.

My list is all written up now: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/711098.page#9078196

I'm so god damned excited to try this stuff out.

Hi guys. Just some things I've been thinking about.

- An exalted priest with seer's bane could make quite an interesting beatstick. If you took ML3 and made two rolls for divination and got precognition, it would be ungodly powerful. I know that you only have a 1/3 chance of getting precog, but wow. So many rerolling instant death attacks.

- Just for non/semi competitive play, the scrolls of magnus look very fun to use on an exalted sorcerer on a disk. Not likely to be hurt from the self-inflicted hits, and gives you that little what if factor.

- The athenean scrolls only seem to stop the enemy target unit from making DtW tests - so librarians could still use psychic hoods to test in their stead, and opponents can still DtW on sixes? Admittedly the scrolls are still powerful.

- Sending Magnus into combat against any gargantuan creatures or heavy walkers is a no-no. I know he's not supposed to be about CC, but I'm still slightly underwhelmed given GW said he would be able to chop wraithknights in half. When you do the math, he isn't likely to do that (averaging about four wounds, accounting for ID, and before any 5++ saves), and the wraithknight only needs that 6 deathblow or a 6 on stomp to remove all those points. Against imperial knights he's far worse again. He's also vulnerable to tarpitts with no stomp.

- Scarab occult terminators have potentially a very nasty overwatch. It's just a shame the sorcerer can't take relics, because then you'd autotake the third eye.

- I'm overall very pleased with the release - especially that the thousand sons rules in general do not seem to be overpowered. It still seems to be a very challenging army to play, and I actually like that. Your victories mean a bit more.

I had my first battle with WoM tonight. All I have to say is, that power, mans...that power.

So it was a 2k battle. I took a Grand Cabal featuring a full unit War Coven and a las/auto predator as auxiliary + favoured of Tzeentch. So in total 4 sorcerers with spell familiars, 3 msu rubrics in rhinos, 3x5 scarab occults with cannons and helyfires and the predator. My opponent played KDK. Don't know his exact formations, but he had a big unit of hellhounds (8-10 of them approximately), 2 units of 5 raptors with meltaguns, 2 units of bikers, 1 unit of warp talons, 2-3 units of CSM in rhinos, a lord with jump pack, a las/missile hellbrute, a hellchicken and one of those awesome daemon walkers that make defilers look like a joke.

First let me aknowledge that my list was a hard counter to his in many levels. He didn't have nearly enough ap2 attacks (just the hellbrute, the meltaguns on the raptors and an ap2 melee weapon on the lord), he had a ton of 3+ armor saves and he had to reach hth which was butter on my bread. But even with those points, it was way much more one sided than I would EVER imagine. Short story, by the end of turn two all he had left on the table was the rhinos, 3 warp talons and the two walkers. Long story below.

So we rolled #3 on the Maelstorm missions, so we had the long table deployment (which ultimately favored me heavily I think). I got 5 psychic screams, 2 treasons of tzeentch (useless as he had no serious unit for me to steal), 2 baleful devolutions, prescience, invisibility, 2 doombolts and some other flashy spells (sinistrum hth blessing on the caster and sinistrum malediction that reduces invul save). He took first turn, moved all his units forward, run and turbo boosted his rhinos. Especially the hellhounds with their scout movement came just in front of my face. In my turn, I moved my units further back, but since the hounds were so close already, I decided to try my luck in shooting/ witchfiring them. So here comes the psychic phase. I roll 1 dice, leaving him with 1 dispel dice against my 22. First of all I cast a siphon magic on one of my sorcerers, followed that with the malediction to reduce hellhounds' invul save. Then came the screams. 3 screams on the hellhound unit for a total of 4 dogs dying, then a breath of chaos, followed by a couple of blessings to get the Blessing of Tzeentch going. I ended up the phase with a free prescience on a Rubric unit and invisibility on a terminator unit that marched forward. In the following shooting phase, two terminator units and the rubrics with prescience made short work of the hellhounds.

On his second turn, the hellchicken entered the table. His one biker unit charged one of my rubric units. He stayed away from my invisible terminators, and instead just moved all his stuff forward, disembarked from the rhinos and got ready for a third turn assault with everything. Eventually there was no third turn at all. The hellchicken killed 2 rubrics with the baleflamer, the bikers did nothing (turns out 3++ with rerollable 1's rubrics are VERY durable). On my second turn, I moved all the terminators forward. On the psychic phase, I went all out on psychic screams. Tzeentch was heavily favouring me, because I cast 5 psychic screams, and the worst of them rolled a 12 on 3d6. I completely decimated a biker unit, a unit of 8 CSM, the two raptor units and half the lord. Needless to say, in the ensuing shooting phase what was left from his army vaporized. One of my terminator units got invisibility and prescience and charged his biker unit that was in combat with my rubrics. At that point he conceded the game. All I lost was 4 rubric marines. If I was playing safer and kept them 2" behind I would lose 2 rubric marines after 2 turns of the game. I rerolled a total of four or five 1's on my terminator armor saves. That was an immediate 4-5 terminators extra on my army list due to the favoured of Tzeentch rule.

Things that I learned:

1. Nobody can match our psychic phase. Period. It's not only the amount of warp charges. It's the plethora of spells spread among so many units, it's the spell familiars, it's the access to 10 disciplines. It is also the fact that even the mandatory tzeentch rolls will give us many decent powers now that the lore is revamped. I got two treasons of tzeentch, two doom bolts and a siphon magic just from the mandatory rolls. Our army is extremely versatile when it comes to answering threats.

2. Having 5-6 psychic screams spread on 5-6 units is devastating for the opponent. That's why I think that the scarab occults are a great unit. In this game it was almost irrelevant if I did have inferno bolts or not. I screamed my opponent 10 times in two turns. It got the job done. It would get any job done.

3. Favoured of tzeentch Scarab occult terminators cannot be killed by conventional weaponry. My opponent threw what little shooting he had in the hopes that he could kill some models, but being able to reroll 1's on a 2+ model is soooo strong. Granted, my opponent did not have many ap2 attacks in their list, but even if they did, 3++ with rerollable 1's is almost just as effective.

In the same points, the scarab occult are a GREAT unit in power level/ cost ratio. Sure 300 pts looks like a lot, but the unit overperforms in every field once you factor in favoured of tzeentch. Sinply put, you get 5 models with rerollable 2+ armor save, 3+ invul save rerolling 1's. They are practically immune to all kinds of non-ap2 shooting and they are one of the most durable units in the game against ap2 as well. They have a MUCH better protection than hammernators do, and they also have a very decent firepower, more than any other terminator unit. And if that wasn't enough, they get their ML2 caster that can take psychic scream on demand. Getting to reroll 1's to hit is just the icing on the cake, but it does turn the shooting phase from ok to good. In close quarters, 6 TL str 4 + 4x str 5 and 2 missiles, all ap3 and rerolling 1's to hit leads to a tremendous damage output by virtue of not giving the opponent the chance to save and not missing out on many shots. Overall, a scarab occult unit is a swiss army knife in our list. If you get them with favoured of tzeentch, they bacome an absolute powerhouse. Not kidding, many armies are going to have an awful time against favoured scarab occults.

4. The War Coven is a very strong formation. Getting rerolls of 1's to hit for practically following your plan A (casting powers) is essentially equal to getting it for free, and once you figure that the shots going in aren't allowing saves, those extra hits go a long way.

5. We are really deadly in close / mid range (up to 24"). We are useless outside of it, and we are a slow army. I'm afraid the Astral grimoire is a must have item. It is really nice when you see terminators moving 12" though.

6. Managing the psychic phase is going to be a pain in the neck. We have sorcerers everywhere, each with his own spells known and we need to prioritize, check for eligibility, check for range, check if our blessings are actually in range of our target or if we messed up the movement phase. Practice it a lot and try to be fast, otherwise it can annoy the opponent who just sits and watches as you blow his stuff away and keep adding ability counters on your units.

7. The grand cabal bonuses are meh. There was no real time where I needed to cast more powers than allowed in any of my sorcerers. Also, I periled on the first turn with my warlord, rolled a 3. I was afraid to reroll that so I just took my wound and lost d3 dice. Unfortunately, my warlord was a poor 2 wound sorcerer, therefore he was crippled and I did not cast any more powers with him. Even if I had the chance to reroll my peril roll, I wasn't sure rerolling a 3 was a correct choice. It did save one of the rubric champions though by changing a 2 to a 6 At any point, the tax was only a 110 pt predator so no (much) harm done.

8. My opponent had very few things to contest my armor saves. One could argue that gravs would have a field day. It is debatable, because even against gravs I had 3++ with rerollable 1's. Also, I rolled 2 treasons of tzeentch which were useless against my opponent but would be very glad to have grav devas as their targets. In general, I believe that unless someone tailors specifically against this list (by maxing on plasmas and/or meltas), the durability of the scarabs can make enemies feel completely helpless. And unlike other terminator units which are one trick ponies, the scarabs can perform in almost all the phases of the game equally well.

Overall thoughts: The way I dominated the game really scared me. Sure, my opponent's list wasn't optimized. But that was not what killed them. 10 screams in 2 turns with above average rolls killed them, and this is something I can foresee happening time and again in the future. At least I am finished with painting Magnus.

Edit: One small thought. This list cannot lose in kill point games. Seriously. I considered removing the rhinos in order to not even give first blood to the opponent, but they help a lot with mobility and forward objective capping.

How did you fit the Rhinos in there? I just put together a 2k War Cabal and you have to choose between Mastery Levels and Rhinos

Thousand Sons Grand Coven – 1,990 pts
War Coven – 1,875 pts
105 Sorcerer – Force Axe, MoT, Astral Grimoire
150 Rubric Marines
150 Rubric Marines
150 Rubric Marines
300 Scarab Occult Terminators - Soulreaper Cannon & Hellfire Missile Rack
300 Scarab Occult Terminators - Soulreaper Cannon & Hellfire Missile Rack
300 Scarab Occult Terminators - Soulreaper Cannon & Hellfire Missile Rack
140 Sorcerer – Force Axe, MoT, Spell Familiar & Mastery Lvl 3
140 Sorcerer – Force Axe, MoT, Spell Familiar & Mastery Lvl 3
140 Sorcerer – Force Axe, MoT, Spell Familiar & Mastery Lvl 3
Legion Armoury – 115 pts
115 Chaos Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons

Maybe leaving out the Soulreaper Cannons? That gets you 90pts for two Rhinos and a Mastery Level on the Grimoire caddy.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've been trying to make a TSons army that doesn't feel like a total waste for your hugely expensive Scarab and Rubrics under 2k. I was wondering on peoples thoughts on a brick of 20 Rubrics in a CAD with Ahriman to infiltrate them to mid-field, we know that their best use is basically as a tarpit so why not use them as an Obsec tarpit?

380 points gets you 20 Rubrics, all you need is the Sorcerer to cast Force and they're 3+/3++ and they're Fearless, you already have an Ahriman gunboat and you have access to Obsec Tzaangors for further Outflanking if Ahriman rolls well on his Warlord trait or just backfield objective camping.

Thousand Sons CAD
HQ – 500 pts
270 Exalted Sorcerer - Seer’s Bane, Disc of Tzeentch, Spell Familiar, Mastery Lvl 3
230 Ahriman
Elites – 265 pts
265 Scarab Occult Terminators - Heavy Warpflamer(15)
Troops – 639 pts
380 Rubric Marines - 20x Rubrics
119 Tzaangors – 17x Tzaangors
70 Tzaangors – 10x Tzaangors
70 Tzaangors – 10x Tzaangors
Heavy Support – 345 pts
115pts Chaos Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
115pts Chaos Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
115pts Chaos Predator – Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Total: 1,749 pts

Exalted Sorc with Seer's Bane is a beatstick, he and Ahriman go in the big Tzaangor unit to soak fire early on. I'd DS the Termies for backfield disruption and the Preds give you decent anti armour. GMC's die to Psychic Scream, Knights to Doombolt and Lascannons and you might be able to keep Deathstars tied down on your Rubrics. Thoughts?

topaxygouroun i wrote:
One small thought. This list cannot lose in kill point games. Seriously. I considered removing the rhinos in order to not even give first blood to the opponent, but they help a lot with mobility and forward objective capping.

3x Rhinos would cover a fair bit of the cost of Ahriman, who could infiltrate the Rubrics.

You'd also get more psychic shriek, if needed

Yoyoyo wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
One small thought. This list cannot lose in kill point games. Seriously. I considered removing the rhinos in order to not even give first blood to the opponent, but they help a lot with mobility and forward objective capping.

3x Rhinos would cover a fair bit of the cost of Ahriman, who could infiltrate the Rubrics.

You'd also get more psychic shriek, if needed

Yeah, but infiltrating units of 5 rubrics isn't doing much imo. Rhinos are good because they can move 18" in a single turn and -if they survive- they can capture backfield objectives and/or go for linebreaker.

I see a lot of you guys talking about using the special weapons on the occult terminators, but I feel like I'm missing the appeal.

Flamer: Short range ap3? I'd rather just have the twin linked ap 3 bolter I already paid for. If the ignores cover is what I need, I'd rather charge and not risk pushing the charge range back more. Plus, I'm liking divination a lot which has some ignores cover shooting blessings.

Soulreaper Cannon: Losing 1 point of strength and paying 10 points more than a regular assault cannon makes this hard for me to justify. Again, it gives more good 3+ armor killing power, but that's not what I need more of. I need more armor cracking power. Math wise, it only averages 2 wounds on MEQ making it hard for me to justify 30 points.

Hellfyre Missiles: These I've been liking because the cost isn't too bad and rerolling ones makes them pretty accurate. They're the only ones that seem to add something to the army that I need more of in cracking open light vehicles.

I'm liking the terminators a lot, especially in my full war cabal 1850 list, but they're already expensive and I'm struggling to spend more on them. Are you guys finding those other special weapons worth it for some purpose?

19 rubricae and an aspiring sorceror are 495 points. 150 base for the sorc and 4 golems, then 15 more at 23ppm. I have no idea how you got 380 points.

I also agree with lessthanjeff, the soulreaper cannon, while looking incredible, feels incredibly lacklustre to me. The last thing a Sons army needs is another couple of middling strength AP3 shots, and definately not at the sort of price premium you're looking at.

The hellfyres, while being half the range and having no frag option compared to a cyclone missile launcher and being still more ap3 is at least bringing high strength to the table. Unfortunately, you're now wasting the shooting of the remainder of the squad if you're firing at vehicles and 2 krak missiles doesn't strike fear into anything harder than a venom.

The flamer, while bringing some desperately needed ignores cover to the table, also just offers momre ap3 that we already have in abundance. For a squad that you're planning on deepstriking or perhaps in conjunction with an IC carrying the -2 charge range staff it might be a good choice, but lessthanjeff already said it best - if you're in range for the flamer to do work, you're in charge range where your power swords are going to be either overwhelmingly more effective than the heavy flamer or they'll just bounce off. Just like the heavy flamer.

Then you've got the issue of paying for ranged weapons when the squad is definately meant to be in CC, so if you do buy ranged options, you're either letting them hang in the breeze to anything with ap2 shooting and praying that you don't fluff your blessing and letting those nice khopesh's go to waste or you're making use of the khopesh's and then you've got up to 50 points sitting there being useless on an already expensive squad.

The more I think about it and repeatedly try and write a list that I like, the more I think that the answer is a maxed out war cabal on it's own, no aux choice to turn it into a grand coven at all.

165 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, Terminator Armour
150 - 5x TSons
150 - 5x TSons
150 - 5x TSons
250 - 5x Scarab Occult
250 - 5x Scarab Occult
250 - 5x Scarab Occult
165 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, Terminator Armour
165 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, Terminator Armour
155 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, AoDG

1850

You'd probably have to drop a ML and the AoDG on the last sorc to fit the astral grimoure in somewhere, that 12" move is just too useful. Youd have to get all your armour busting done from Heretek and you'd be reliant on a combination of shriek, smite, life leech, doombolt and whatever the new Tz power is called with the d6 str 6 ap2 shots to deal with 2+ armour in conjuntion with anyone who rolled iron arm haveing a red hot go in CC. It's a lot of weight to pull, but that's why you have 4 ML3's and a trio of ML2's there. You're going to be in trouble when armies with good ranged AP2 shooting get first turn before you get your buffs up though. It does feel horribly spammy, but that's the restrictions that the codex gives us, so there's not much to do about it.

 Drasius wrote:
19 rubricae and an aspiring sorceror are 495 points. 150 base for the sorc and 4 golems, then 15 more at 23ppm. I have no idea how you got 380 points.

I also agree with lessthanjeff, the soulreaper cannon, while looking incredible, feels incredibly lacklustre to me. The last thing a Sons army needs is another couple of middling strength AP3 shots, and definately not at the sort of price premium you're looking at.

The hellfyres, while being half the range and having no frag option compared to a cyclone missile launcher and being still more ap3 is at least bringing high strength to the table. Unfortunately, you're now wasting the shooting of the remainder of the squad if you're firing at vehicles and 2 krak missiles doesn't strike fear into anything harder than a venom.

The flamer, while bringing some desperately needed ignores cover to the table, also just offers momre ap3 that we already have in abundance. For a squad that you're planning on deepstriking or perhaps in conjunction with an IC carrying the -2 charge range staff it might be a good choice, but lessthanjeff already said it best - if you're in range for the flamer to do work, you're in charge range where your power swords are going to be either overwhelmingly more effective than the heavy flamer or they'll just bounce off. Just like the heavy flamer.

Then you've got the issue of paying for ranged weapons when the squad is definately meant to be in CC, so if you do buy ranged options, you're either letting them hang in the breeze to anything with ap2 shooting and praying that you don't fluff your blessing and letting those nice khopesh's go to waste or you're making use of the khopesh's and then you've got up to 50 points sitting there being useless on an already expensive squad.

The more I think about it and repeatedly try and write a list that I like, the more I think that the answer is a maxed out war cabal on it's own, no aux choice to turn it into a grand coven at all.

165 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, Terminator Armour
150 - 5x TSons
150 - 5x TSons
150 - 5x TSons
250 - 5x Scarab Occult
250 - 5x Scarab Occult
250 - 5x Scarab Occult
165 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, Terminator Armour
165 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, Terminator Armour
155 - Sorc, MoT, ML3, Familiar, AoDG

1850

You'd probably have to drop a ML and the AoDG on the last sorc to fit the astral grimoure in somewhere, that 12" move is just too useful. Youd have to get all your armour busting done from Heretek and you'd be reliant on a combination of shriek, smite, life leech, doombolt and whatever the new Tz power is called with the d6 str 6 ap2 shots to deal with 2+ armour in conjuntion with anyone who rolled iron arm haveing a red hot go in CC. It's a lot of weight to pull, but that's why you have 4 ML3's and a trio of ML2's there. You're going to be in trouble when armies with good ranged AP2 shooting get first turn before you get your buffs up though. It does feel horribly spammy, but that's the restrictions that the codex gives us, so there's not much to do about it.

I found that occults at 300 pts are so much better than at 250 pts while in the War Cabal. They perform the same in the psychic and hth, but in the shooting phase it just looks like rubrics. Also, due to their bolters being TL already, the Occular Guidance is getting wasted if you don't purchase the stronger weapons. If they didn't have occular guidance I would agree that there is no need to spend the extra points. But rerolling 1's gives them so much more firing potential that it's actually worth it. Also, I can't see why someone wouldn't want to add a cheap auxiliary. Sure the bonuses of the grand cabal are not that great, but if you can have them for 100ish points then why not? Of course I understand that at 1850 you have to squeeze some points to make it work.

I believe that at 1850 games I would play a basic Pandaemoniad, the Ahriman's exiles with exalted sorcs on discs + spell familiars and a basic CSM Allied detachment, perhaps with Be'Lakor as HQ. Then I would form a super unit with all the Ahriman's Exiles, give it invisibility from Be'Lakor and start flying around blasting things with mind bullets. Depending on the points I have available, I could add the seer's bane and have my uber sorc unit moonlight as a surprise swift close combatant with things like Force, Biomancy or Sinistrum buffs and prescience to increase its killing potential. At higher point games (2000-2500) I believe a maxed War Coven is where the money's at. At even higher games (2500+) big buddy Magnus can make his appearance, perhaps in a Rehati Sect with 3 daemon princes to escort him.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
I had my first battle with WoM tonight. All I have to say is, that power, mans...that power.

So in total 4 sorcerers with spell familiars,

Could you explain what your 4 sorcerers were and how they got familiars? Unless I'm reading it wrong, only exalted sorcs can get them as they have access to the CSM codex.

 nintura wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
I had my first battle with WoM tonight. All I have to say is, that power, mans...that power.

So in total 4 sorcerers with spell familiars,

Could you explain what your 4 sorcerers were and how they got familiars? Unless I'm reading it wrong, only exalted sorcs can get them as they have access to the CSM codex.

Umm, they were normal Chaos Sorcerers who had spell familiars because they have access to the CSM codex because they are from the CSM codex.

Yep, I figured that out eventually Sorry, for some reason I was only thinking of the actual WoM book.

I agree with your points too about not running the whole detachment, Drasius. The list I made is just the war cabal formation as I feel what will limit my psychic phases is not the spells cast per sorc but the number of dice I have. I don't anticipate many perils either throwing one or two dice at a time at most spells.

My list looks very similar to yours.

Sorc: MoT, lvl 3, term armor, spell familiar, astral grimoire, force axe
5x Rubric Marines: melta bombs
5x Rubric Marines: melta bombs
5x Rubric Marines: melta bombs
5x Scarab Occult Terminators
5x Scarab Occult Terminators
5x Scarab Occult Terminators
Sorc: MoT, lvl 3, spell familiar, melta bombs, force axe
Sorc: MoT, lvl 3, spell familiar, melta bombs, force axe
Sorc: MoT, lvl 3, spell familiar, melta bombs, force axe

I took a lot of melta bombs to deal with armies like a battle company that bring down rhinos and drop pods everywhere. They'll also be helpful against knights since the good invul save of the squad should mean the sorcs get several turns of bombing them back before they'd go down. I'd love to get more term armor on the other 3 sorcs but I plan on keeping them with my term squads so hopefully they won't be making many saves anyways. For armies with lots of 2+ saves I think taking axes on all the sorcs who can take them (cursed new restriction on the squad captains being forced to use staves...) and psyhic powers will be plenty.

Awesome write up, thanks!

I look forward to more reading about application and less theory.