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 BoomWolf wrote:
So an exalted sorcerer is basically 230 points stock as you ARE taking level 3, spell familiar and a disk.

Well, barring a point of Weapon skill he is practically a chaos lord with a 4++, a daemonic steed mount and 3 mastery levels (those cost 75 pts) so costing 230 doesn't sound too crazy to me.

I wouldn't *always* take a Disc though (prevents you from sitting in a Rhino/Land Raider, and is superfluous if you're affected by the Grimoire.)

Most of the time sure, but I'm glad they have the option to footslog.

270 pts (with Seer's Bane) is alot of points, but then a model who is both...
- Fighty (WS5, 5+D6 attacks base, Force and S10 but wounds against Ld)
- Tanky (W3, T5, 3+/4++ with easy access to 3++)
- Fast (Moves like a Jetbike.)
- Flexible (ML3 and re-rolls failed psychic-tests and BS5, and a good one-use-only shooting attack)
...should cost a fair amount of points.

Imagine that he's a special character, not that hard considering how much he brings to the table.
I'd much rather face Abaddon than that Exalted Sorcerer.

 MinscS2 wrote:
I wouldn't *always* take a Disc though (prevents you from sitting in a Rhino/Land Raider, and is superfluous if you're affected by the Grimoire.)

Most of the time sure, but I'm glad they have the option to footslog.

270 pts (with Seer's Bane) is alot of points, but then a model who is both...
- Fighty (WS5, 5+D6 attacks base, Force and S10 but wounds against Ld)
- Tanky (W3, T5, 3+/4++ with easy access to 3++)
- Fast (Moves like a Jetbike.)
- Flexible (ML3 and re-rolls failed psychic-tests and BS5, and a good one-use-only shooting attack)
...should cost a fair amount of points.

Imagine that he's a special character, not that hard considering how much he brings to the table.
I'd much rather face Abaddon than that Exalted Sorcerer.

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

I disagree. He's plenty able to survive on his own. It takes a S10 hit to kill him, and then he has a 3++ most of the time. This last weekend he was responsible (across two games) for killing a squad of grey knight termies, squad of purifiers, 2! dreadknights, and a few of the big (not riptide) tau suits. He was amazing and well worth his points.

 nintura wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

I disagree. He's plenty able to survive on his own. It takes a S10 hit to kill him, and then he has a 3++ most of the time. This last weekend he was responsible (across two games) for killing a squad of grey knight termies, squad of purifiers, 2! dreadknights, and a few of the big (not riptide) tau suits. He was amazing and well worth his points.

By himself, no more than 3 units of warp spiders and/or 3 man scatter bikes will wipe him out. What if you face IK? A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out. In fact a single dreadnought will lock a seer bane guy and a unit of occult for majority of a game

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

I disagree. He's plenty able to survive on his own. It takes a S10 hit to kill him, and then he has a 3++ most of the time. This last weekend he was responsible (across two games) for killing a squad of grey knight termies, squad of purifiers, 2! dreadknights, and a few of the big (not riptide) tau suits. He was amazing and well worth his points.

By himself, no more than 3 units of warp spiders and/or 3 man scatter bikes will wipe him out. What if you face IK? A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out. In fact a single dreadnought will lock a seer bane guy and a unit of occult for majority of a game

Sooo, your opponent is the only one playing the game? What are you doing, looking around? How will the IK lock you in combat since you move the same speed but the Exalted also has turbo boost 24" ? Also, why the heck would your 230/270 pts IC be alone? What kind of warhammer is this? How on earth will a dreadnought lock your disc sorcerer in combat? And about the warp spiders or the scatterbikes, what do you do in your turn? You have a ML3 sorcerer. What do YOU do in the game? What is the rest of your list doing to fight the warp spiders? Is your army a simple observer in the game?

I'm sorry but your reasoning is very flawed. "A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out" This applies to 90% of the IC out there. So nobody should ever use those? And since when does an Exalted have to go into melee to earn his points back just because he holds a Seer's Bane? What about psychic screaming stuff from 18" away and then turbo boosting back behind some terrain? What about doombolt or treason of tzeentch? What about invisibilities, precognitions, biomancy buffs? Why can't my Exalted have Heretech powers against the IK and be able to strip d3 hull points per turn while dancing around? You base your comparison on the most skewed examples ever, and even then you have the Exalted sorcerer just forget that he is actually a sorcerer and go charge like a khorne lord instead. Seriously? Where is the practical example that a seer's bane exalted on disc will destroy a Wraithknight in a single round of combat? With your logic then, a Wraithknight would be a bad unit and should not be used. Or is this not good enough narrative for you and you only mention the AV units? Please, get serious.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

I disagree. He's plenty able to survive on his own. It takes a S10 hit to kill him, and then he has a 3++ most of the time. This last weekend he was responsible (across two games) for killing a squad of grey knight termies, squad of purifiers, 2! dreadknights, and a few of the big (not riptide) tau suits. He was amazing and well worth his points.

By himself, no more than 3 units of warp spiders and/or 3 man scatter bikes will wipe him out. What if you face IK? A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out. In fact a single dreadnought will lock a seer bane guy and a unit of occult for majority of a game

Sooo, your opponent is the only one playing the game? What are you doing, looking around? How will the IK lock you in combat since you move the same speed but the Exalted also has turbo boost 24" ? Also, why the heck would your 230/270 pts IC be alone? What kind of warhammer is this? How on earth will a dreadnought lock your disc sorcerer in combat? And about the warp spiders or the scatterbikes, what do you do in your turn? You have a ML3 sorcerer. What do YOU do in the game? What is the rest of your list doing to fight the warp spiders? Is your army a simple observer in the game?

I'm sorry but your reasoning is very flawed. "A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out" This applies to 90% of the IC out there. So nobody should ever use those? And since when does an Exalted have to go into melee to earn his points back just because he holds a Seer's Bane? What about psychic screaming stuff from 18" away and then turbo boosting back behind some terrain? What about doombolt or treason of tzeentch? What about invisibilities, precognitions, biomancy buffs? Why can't my Exalted have Heretech powers against the IK and be able to strip d3 hull points per turn while dancing around? You base your comparison on the most skewed examples ever, and even then you have the Exalted sorcerer just forget that he is actually a sorcerer and go charge like a khorne lord instead. Seriously? Where is the practical example that a seer's bane exalted on disc will destroy a Wraithknight in a single round of combat? With your logic then, a Wraithknight would be a bad unit and should not be used. Or is this not good enough narrative for you and you only mention the AV units? Please, get serious.

I was stating the obvious weaknesses that TS has, sure you can roll on heretech, that will be one less dice for you to fish for Warp Fate and etc. So far after 17 pages I still haven't seen a single potential tournament worthy TS list.

If you want to talk match up sure, take a WS Gladius (w Culexus) for example which is a popular top ITC army. A crap load of razorbacks, rhinos and some drop pods and a whole lot of grav. You have what 2 maybe 3 one time use lascannons from 2-3 exalted sorcerers? Soulreaper cannon is only S5 and 24", so unless you give the occult termies a bunch of expensive hellfrye missiles, its gonna be a long day. WS scouts up 12", keeping the gun line tight knit, you might pop a couple rhinos and then you turbo boost your exalted ones to safety? Sure the WS player will just go after and wipe out the rest of your slow army (tzangors, rubrics, terminators) while racking up maelstrom points all at the same time. A single objsec drop pod landing on a objective held by rubrics, occult terms, and tzang will probably be there for most of the game lol. Your only chance to hurt a bunch of vehicles is to move up and some how get a good angle to hit multiple rhinos with doom bolt, if you keep turbo boosting away your not gonna have that kind of opportunity. I'm all about mathhammer and probabilities, its not looking good. And chances of you fishing for every psychic power you need is not that great with TS sorcerers being forced to roll 1 on tz discipline

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

I disagree. He's plenty able to survive on his own. It takes a S10 hit to kill him, and then he has a 3++ most of the time. This last weekend he was responsible (across two games) for killing a squad of grey knight termies, squad of purifiers, 2! dreadknights, and a few of the big (not riptide) tau suits. He was amazing and well worth his points.

By himself, no more than 3 units of warp spiders and/or 3 man scatter bikes will wipe him out. What if you face IK? A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out. In fact a single dreadnought will lock a seer bane guy and a unit of occult for majority of a game

Sooo, your opponent is the only one playing the game? What are you doing, looking around? How will the IK lock you in combat since you move the same speed but the Exalted also has turbo boost 24" ? Also, why the heck would your 230/270 pts IC be alone? What kind of warhammer is this? How on earth will a dreadnought lock your disc sorcerer in combat? And about the warp spiders or the scatterbikes, what do you do in your turn? You have a ML3 sorcerer. What do YOU do in the game? What is the rest of your list doing to fight the warp spiders? Is your army a simple observer in the game?

I'm sorry but your reasoning is very flawed. "A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out" This applies to 90% of the IC out there. So nobody should ever use those? And since when does an Exalted have to go into melee to earn his points back just because he holds a Seer's Bane? What about psychic screaming stuff from 18" away and then turbo boosting back behind some terrain? What about doombolt or treason of tzeentch? What about invisibilities, precognitions, biomancy buffs? Why can't my Exalted have Heretech powers against the IK and be able to strip d3 hull points per turn while dancing around? You base your comparison on the most skewed examples ever, and even then you have the Exalted sorcerer just forget that he is actually a sorcerer and go charge like a khorne lord instead. Seriously? Where is the practical example that a seer's bane exalted on disc will destroy a Wraithknight in a single round of combat? With your logic then, a Wraithknight would be a bad unit and should not be used. Or is this not good enough narrative for you and you only mention the AV units? Please, get serious.

I was stating the obvious weaknesses that TS has, sure you can roll on heretech, that will be one less dice for you to fish for Warp Fate and etc. So far after 17 pages I still haven't seen a single potential tournament worthy TS list.

If you want to talk match up sure, take a WS Gladius (w Culexus) for example which is a popular top ITC army. A crap load of razorbacks, rhinos and some drop pods and a whole lot of grav. You have what 2 maybe 3 one time use lascannons from 2-3 exalted sorcerers? Soulreaper cannon is only S5 and 24", so unless you give the occult termies a bunch of expensive hellfrye missiles, its gonna be a long day. WS scouts up 12", keeping the gun line tight knit, you might pop a couple rhinos and then you turbo boost your exalted ones to safety? Sure the WS player will just go after and wipe out the rest of your slow army (tzangors, rubrics, terminators) while racking up maelstrom points all at the same time. A single objsec drop pod landing on a objective held by rubrics, occult terms, and tzang will probably be there for most of the game lol. Your only chance to hurt a bunch of vehicles is to move up and some how get a good angle to hit multiple rhinos with doom bolt, if you keep turbo boosting away your not gonna have that kind of opportunity. I'm all about mathhammer and probabilities, its not looking good. And chances of you fishing for every psychic power you need is not that great with TS sorcerers being forced to roll 1 on tz discipline

Except that you're talking about the perfect counter. You're ALWAYS going to find X that counters Y. You're playing the "what if" game and that's pointless. A 1k Sons will always lose to an 800 free points full of transports army. It's just going to happen.

 nintura wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Thats what I'm saying tho, its a 270 pts beat stick who can't survive on it own and has to earn his points back going after your opponents most dangerous units. A termie unit containing him and another sorcerer with astral grim is well over 700 pts, looks like a ok deathstar to me

I disagree. He's plenty able to survive on his own. It takes a S10 hit to kill him, and then he has a 3++ most of the time. This last weekend he was responsible (across two games) for killing a squad of grey knight termies, squad of purifiers, 2! dreadknights, and a few of the big (not riptide) tau suits. He was amazing and well worth his points.

By himself, no more than 3 units of warp spiders and/or 3 man scatter bikes will wipe him out. What if you face IK? A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out. In fact a single dreadnought will lock a seer bane guy and a unit of occult for majority of a game

Sooo, your opponent is the only one playing the game? What are you doing, looking around? How will the IK lock you in combat since you move the same speed but the Exalted also has turbo boost 24" ? Also, why the heck would your 230/270 pts IC be alone? What kind of warhammer is this? How on earth will a dreadnought lock your disc sorcerer in combat? And about the warp spiders or the scatterbikes, what do you do in your turn? You have a ML3 sorcerer. What do YOU do in the game? What is the rest of your list doing to fight the warp spiders? Is your army a simple observer in the game?

I'm sorry but your reasoning is very flawed. "A single IK will lock you in combat forever and D or stomp you out" This applies to 90% of the IC out there. So nobody should ever use those? And since when does an Exalted have to go into melee to earn his points back just because he holds a Seer's Bane? What about psychic screaming stuff from 18" away and then turbo boosting back behind some terrain? What about doombolt or treason of tzeentch? What about invisibilities, precognitions, biomancy buffs? Why can't my Exalted have Heretech powers against the IK and be able to strip d3 hull points per turn while dancing around? You base your comparison on the most skewed examples ever, and even then you have the Exalted sorcerer just forget that he is actually a sorcerer and go charge like a khorne lord instead. Seriously? Where is the practical example that a seer's bane exalted on disc will destroy a Wraithknight in a single round of combat? With your logic then, a Wraithknight would be a bad unit and should not be used. Or is this not good enough narrative for you and you only mention the AV units? Please, get serious.

I was stating the obvious weaknesses that TS has, sure you can roll on heretech, that will be one less dice for you to fish for Warp Fate and etc. So far after 17 pages I still haven't seen a single potential tournament worthy TS list.

If you want to talk match up sure, take a WS Gladius (w Culexus) for example which is a popular top ITC army. A crap load of razorbacks, rhinos and some drop pods and a whole lot of grav. You have what 2 maybe 3 one time use lascannons from 2-3 exalted sorcerers? Soulreaper cannon is only S5 and 24", so unless you give the occult termies a bunch of expensive hellfrye missiles, its gonna be a long day. WS scouts up 12", keeping the gun line tight knit, you might pop a couple rhinos and then you turbo boost your exalted ones to safety? Sure the WS player will just go after and wipe out the rest of your slow army (tzangors, rubrics, terminators) while racking up maelstrom points all at the same time. A single objsec drop pod landing on a objective held by rubrics, occult terms, and tzang will probably be there for most of the game lol. Your only chance to hurt a bunch of vehicles is to move up and some how get a good angle to hit multiple rhinos with doom bolt, if you keep turbo boosting away your not gonna have that kind of opportunity. I'm all about mathhammer and probabilities, its not looking good. And chances of you fishing for every psychic power you need is not that great with TS sorcerers being forced to roll 1 on tz discipline

Except that you're talking about the perfect counter. You're ALWAYS going to find X that counters Y. You're playing the "what if" game and that's pointless. A 1k Sons will always lose to an 800 free points full of transports army. It's just going to happen.

Its not pointless when you look at the "probabilities" of facing top armies at a tournament. So then you will just resign to playing casual games with 1kson? Fair enough lol

A top eldar army will give a pure 1kson hard time even without a WK, scatter bike spam has a threat range of 48"+2d6 assault move to hide back behind cover. Scatterbikes and warp spiders will run around in circles taking out your army. 3++ or even 2++ will only do so much against mass S6 shooting.

How do you deal against Admech Warconvo+libby conclave? They support their gun line with the IK, you can't get near them without worrying about the IK or Tiggy casting nullzone on you.

Ok then. Let's look at an actual Gladius list (this is 4th place from Adepticon). One problem at a time.


EDIT: Alright.

- Attack any Rhinos with multiple Doombolts. 'Explodes' losses and Pinning checks will reduce incoming damage.
- Treason of Tzeentch the Dev Squads. Pinning chance = 24%. They will eliminate a marine squad every time they fire.
- Focus out Grav Cannons in the Tac Squads with Baleful Devolution. Use newly created Spawn to run interference.
- Scouts are good targets for AP4 Force Sticks. Exalted Sorcerers are best as they swing at I5.
- Biomancy is really good. Iron Arm on T5 will make Disc Sorcs AP2 and immune to Bolter fire.
- Astral Grimoire might let you work around the Culexus without committing a lot of resources.
- Seer's Bane will double out the Command Squad and HQs. More dangerous with Precog or a LD debuff.

You still have to deal with 40x Marines, 15x Scouts, a few assorted bikes, one Drop Pod, and 7x AV11 vehicles. That said, I don't think that's impossible. Khan, the Chaplain, and the Command Squad can't outfight Exalted Sorcerers with buffs. Scouts that approach within 18" will be wrapped up easily by AP4 in CC. Attack Bikes are exceptionally vulnerable to Psychic Shriek. Grav is not effective against 3++ layered with Endurance. You don't have important vehicles to Melta. And AV11 isn't going to hold up against Doombolt forever.

Gladius can definitely win by outscoring and outmaneuvering you. But the only unit that's anything more than an Obsec speedbump is the Culexus.

Pretty sure that most of this thread has been in agreement that pure 1ksons is not top tier and will struggle to compete with the gladius transport spam, scatbikeknights and riptidewing lists of this world...

it's doable, and it's even more doable when adding fast units like demon allies or bikes into the list.

Ericthegreen wrote:
Pretty sure that most of this thread has been in agreement that pure 1ksons is not top tier and will struggle to compete with the gladius transport spam, scatbikeknights and riptidewing lists of this world...

it's doable, and it's even more doable when adding fast units like demon allies or bikes into the list.

Well some people are still a little delusional

The issue with 1Kson is that they are not cost effective, rubrics and occult termies are just too expensive and slow. Occult termies don't even make good death star companions since they can't take powerfists. Best way to run 1kson is to only bring the things that are good and ignore the rest of the book. Which incidentally is only good for a deathstar.

my list looks something like this:
TS CAD
Exalted Sorc: seer bane
sorcerer: astral grim
7x Tz Termies: 4-5 combi-meltas, 4-5 PF/Chain fist
2xcultist squads

BL Cyclopia Cabal
3xSorcerers: 2 bikes, 1 jump pack.

AL CAD
Socerer on bike with mindveil
2x cultist
Heldrake

Basically this deathstar hits harder than a houndstar against vehicles, walkers, and MC/GMC and will kill everything it touches aside from other deathstars. Unmarked sorcerers improves your chance of fishing for those key powers that you need. Gladius can't hurt you once buffs are up, termies allow you to multi-charge and wipe out multiple rhinos/razorbacks. Only issue is you still have to deal with the culexus, so one BL sorcerer roll only on malefic in order to fish for incursion to summon screamers. If you can get a couple unit of screamers you can swoop attack the assassin. If the assassin is in a rhino, you pop the rhino with psychic powers or meltas. Still there may be a turn where you have to endure some shooting attacks with no buffs on. It's still gonna be a hard battle but hopefully good rolls on maelstroms will help out.

Against Tau gun line would be better match up if you have the right buffs up. With warpfate, Riptides can't really hurt you. If they have storm surges, Cyclopia cabal controls them and shoot d-missiles at their own riptides .

So basically, ignore the entire book. Gotcha. Understood.

Well, if you want to just run a copy of tournament Cabalstar.

Anyway... Forgefiend + Prescience have a 73% chance of removing a Culexus in one shooting phase. You don't have to burn rolls on the Malefic table, and you don't have to Peril on a 2W model.

It's a pretty good Auxiliary for TS, I think.

 nintura wrote:
So basically, ignore the entire book. Gotcha. Understood.

I'm so glad I don't play in his meta. I'd probably sell my armies within a week.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 nintura wrote:
So basically, ignore the entire book. Gotcha. Understood.

I'm so glad I don't play in his meta. I'd probably sell my armies within a week.

Who? mine? or the other persons?

SonsofVulkan's.

Competitive play is not for everyone

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Competitive play is not for everyone

Competative play is not for Thousand Sons.

I never understood why some people try to play competitively a game that is not intended to be played competitively.
Why not play chess ?

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Competitive play is not for everyone

Semi-competitive is fine, most of us would rather win than loose.

Die-hard/WAAC-competitive is a waste of time however (imo), 40k is too unbalanced.

If you're WAAC, then Thousand Sons isn't the army for you. (Thankfully, I love my TS and would hate for them to become FotM amongst WAAC:ers.)
I have barely played with my Eldar with their latest codex for that very reason. They're so powerful they're boring to play (even if I hamstring myself), and It doesn't matter that I've played them for 13 years, people just automatically assume that you're "that guy". Such a pity tbh, I love my Eldar, but I just can't bring myself to play them...

Ericthegreen wrote:
Pretty sure that most of this thread has been in agreement that pure 1ksons is not top tier and will struggle to compete with the gladius transport spam, scatbikeknights and riptidewing lists of this world...

it's doable, and it's even more doable when adding fast units like demon allies or bikes into the list.

Meh, I just beat a riptide wing with 2 stormsurges using a full war cabal list in an 1850 ITC game a couple days ago. Not saying it was easy, but I also rolled absolute crap powers. I think I could take down a gladius battleforce pretty well too.

Rookie question. Does the Occular Guidance for the War Cabal offer anything additional on top of twin linked combi bolters?

I would not think so and resize the benefit is for cc as well.
assume TL over rides reroll of 1's?

 Skerr wrote:
Rookie question. Does the Occular Guidance for the War Cabal offer anything additional on top of twin linked combi bolters?

I would not think so and resize the benefit is for cc as well.
assume TL over rides reroll of 1's?

Not affecting the combi bolters at all. You get rerolls in hth an psychic powers though. Also helyfire and soul cannon.

Did not think about psychic phase. Glad I asked. Thanks!!

 Skerr wrote:
Did not think about psychic phase. Glad I asked. Thanks!!

Yup. Occular guidance is the main reason why I believe rolling Ectomancy for the primaris (Warps-omething) on multiple sorcerers might be worth considering as our main dakka source in the war coven.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
Meh, I just beat a riptide wing with 2 stormsurges using a full war cabal list in an 1850 ITC game a couple days ago. Not saying it was easy, but I also rolled absolute crap powers.

I guess the nice thing is that if Tau tries to contest the objectives, they'll just get hacked up by Force weapons.

Gladius will have the same problem once they get out of their transports. They probably don't have more firepower than that Tau list.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
Did not think about psychic phase. Glad I asked. Thanks!!

Yup. Occular guidance is the main reason why I believe rolling Ectomancy for the primaris (Warps-omething) on multiple sorcerers might be worth considering as our main dakka source in the war coven.

Well, it's a good source of dakka of you don't mind ap4, but if you need ap2, just rolling on tzeentch is better.
Ectomancy problem is lack of focus.
Warpshock is S5ap4 spam.
Empiric shield just gives your psyker a 2++ (due to blessing boost in 1ksons) can become nasty tanks in full cabal
Daemonshrike is an odd nova Haywire power.
Blaze is also S5ap4 spam, but less good at it than Warpshock.
Infernal claws is a decent CC blessing, but who cares?
Ghostform is amazing mobility power, for a shooty unit that benefits from it (melta units for example, not so much our war cabal)
Soulswitch is pure shenanigans, but for us does little as our units are mostly the same.


Many good powers, but some not for 1ksons and nothing is in common between them. Really odd discipline.

 BoomWolf wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
Did not think about psychic phase. Glad I asked. Thanks!!

Yup. Occular guidance is the main reason why I believe rolling Ectomancy for the primaris (Warps-omething) on multiple sorcerers might be worth considering as our main dakka source in the war coven.

Well, it's a good source of dakka of you don't mind ap4, but if you need ap2, just rolling on tzeentch is better.
Ectomancy problem is lack of focus.
Warpshock is S5ap4 spam.
Empiric shield just gives your psyker a 2++ (due to blessing boost in 1ksons) can become nasty tanks in full cabal
Daemonshrike is an odd nova Haywire power.
Blaze is also S5ap4 spam, but less good at it than Warpshock.
Infernal claws is a decent CC blessing, but who cares?
Ghostform is amazing mobility power, for a shooty unit that benefits from it (melta units for example, not so much our war cabal)
Soulswitch is pure shenanigans, but for us does little as our units are mostly the same.


Many good powers, but some not for 1ksons and nothing is in common between them. Really odd discipline.

Note: Thousand Sons can never get 2++ save. Mark of Tzeentch strictly forbids it. DP's of Tzeentch now rolling empyric shield can actually get 2++ rerollable.

Indeed, Ectomancy is weird, but the Warpshock is a primaris so anybody can take it. I am especially considering it for the Scarab units in a maxed war cabal. People argue (rather fairly) that 300 pts for a unit just to get an assault cannon and two missiles is not good enough. But what if that unit also had 2 heavy bolters, rerolled 1's to hit and was practically unkillable? Would a unit of 5 terminators with rerollable saves holding 2 missiles, an assault cannon, 2 heavy bolters and 3 inferno combi bolters, all rerolling 1's to hit worth it the 300 pts? Rolling ectomancy on the scarab champions can give the scarabs much needed mobility via the ghostform, it can enable shaneninaninanigans with soulswitch (and perhaps getting your sorcerers out of combat), or it can switch for 2 heavy bolters at will. Of course you may always roll on telepathy and switch to a scream, but there are some cases where 2 heavy bolters are better than 1 scream. Oh and those two heavy bolters can effectively "split fire" from the rest of the unit. Ahriman with warpshock is also funny as a part of a war cabal. 18 x TL str 5 ap 4. Pewpewpew.

Mark of tzeentch can't be used to get 2++,it does not forbid getting it from other sources.

Empiric shield is 3++ base, and the 1ksons blessing rule boosts it to 2++, MoT isn't used.