Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/12/23 19:10:34
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Well I got another game in with the actual detachment this time. Ran it with Ahriman on a disk, an exalted sorc on a disk with seer's bane, and the terrifying Magnus. Played against the Blood Angels Death Company detachment so not as competitive of a list this time.
Tactics wise, I'll tell you casting siphon magic on magnus and then running through all your dice with the other casters worked great. It meant I got a slew of spells off and then still had a good 15 dice to cast spells with magnus. He was cleaving through hundreds of points every turn with beams knocking out vehicles and novas shredding into combats. I even got a couple free spawn out of him and he didn't take a single wound in the game. I didn't do any of the summoning because I don't have any chariots yet, but I imagine those will make him even more efficient.
My Exalted Seer on a disc was actually a bit more disappointing for his debut because I rolled a 1 for the daemon weapon in the first combat and then I was hitting a bunch of high leadership models with invul saves so he only did a couple wounds.
I was afraid I'd need to fit in the heralds anarchic to buff my number of psychic dice, but siphon magic on a couple models is all it takes if you keep your units in close proximity to support each other.
2016/12/23 19:42:48
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
BoomWolf wrote: Though the blue scribes formation made me look at them again and wonder-why would any daemon player NOT take them? they are fething insane for the cost.
Because they aren't IC's and give up first blood really easily?
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
2016/12/23 21:48:49
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
BoomWolf wrote: Though the blue scribes formation made me look at them again and wonder-why would any daemon player NOT take them? they are fething insane for the cost.
Because they aren't IC's and give up first blood really easily?
Easily mitigated by using it's jetbike. You're never wanting to go into combat, so just use the 24" assault move to hide behind LOS blocking terrain.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2016/12/23 23:16:00
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
16.66% --> Each player gets 3x rerolls of a D6 11.11% --> Everyone can harness on a 3+
13.88% --> Powers cost 1WC less. Fail = Perils
8.33% --> Free Brimstone Horrors
5.55% --> LD test on Enemy Psyker, fail removes Psyker and creates Herald
2.77% --> LD test on friendly Tzeentch Character, pass removes character and creates LoC
Marginal : 33.32%
13.88% --> All Flamers gain Warpflame
11.11% --> Random Warpflame Hits
8.33% --> Remove and deepstrike Tzeentch Daemon
Dangerous : 8.32%
5.55% --> All Psykers Suffer Perils on Doubles
2.77% --> Random non-Daemon character suffers D3 unsaveable wounds
As long as Magnus is in the list, seems like you could get away without a rerollable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/23 23:18:30
2016/12/23 23:48:17
Subject: Re:My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
16.66% --> Each player gets 3x rerolls of a D6 -Not bad, but is just as good to your opponant as it is to you.
11.11% --> Everyone can harness on a 3+
-If you are running TS allied detachment alot of your important things will already have 3+ casting so it might just be benifiting your opponant.
13.88% --> Powers cost 1WC less. Fail = Perils
-When spamming lots of WC1 it isn't very helpful and it benefits your opponant too.
8.33% --> Free Brimstone Horrors
-+1ML: yay! Easy killpoint for opponant: boo.
5.55% --> LD test on Enemy Psyker, fail removes Psyker and creates Herald
-A chance to ruin your opponants day, however most psykers you want to kill are Ld10 so only a 1/11 chance to kill them.
2.77% --> LD test on friendly Tzeentch Character, pass removes character and creates LoC -Not bad on a throw away Herald or a Herald on one wound but what if the only Heralds available are ML3 or are carrying artifacts?
13.88% --> All Flamers gain Warpflame
-Toughness tests still have a 1/3 chance of failing against a MEQ, might be the fall of an expensive enemy character.
11.11% --> Random Warpflame Hits
-Same argument as above.
8.33% --> Remove and deepstrike Tzeentch Daemon
-You may have been cornered and this just saved the unit or you could DS a unit onto an objective to save the game.
5.55% --> All Psykers Suffer Perils on Doubles
-Not just you, your opponant too. Plus in an allied TS detachment you can re-roll perils and your psykers are Ld10 for any tests.
2.77% --> Random non-Daemon character suffers D3 unsaveable wounds
-And if you are running pure daemons? You could make your opponant rather unhappy.
Just trying to be a devil's advicate here to show the other side of each result.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2016/12/24 02:33:23
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
16.66%, D3 rerolls. 13.88%, casting at -1WC. 11.11%, 3+ casting.
- While each player gets rerolls, not all rerolls are equal. Rerolling on the D table, the Boon Chart, with a Daemon Weapon, or with a variable attack like Baleful Devolution is much more influential than on a conventional weapon like a Bolter. So weight-of-fire armies won't get those benefits.
- Casting at -1WC won't benefit non-psyker armies at all. Lower cost means better mileage with Siphon Magic. Armies casting against Thousand Sons need to be careful of being denied, not simply get their powers off at minimum cost. Other psykers are limited to casting their ML. Having no WC2 or WC3 powers is unlikely, and Magnus has access to two disciplines and his WC5 power. So I think it's good overall.
- Casting on a 3+ is a big advantage for War Cabal and allies like Fateweaver. Won't affect non-psyker armies, or enemy formations that already channel on a 3+. This would suck against an enemy Cabalstar, though.
Common :
Spoiler:
~25%, Warpflame effects.
They're interesting results. I'm not 100% sure how they'd play out on the table, some playtesting would help.
Less likely :
Spoiler:
8.33%, free Brimstone Horrors. 8.33%, remove and Deepstrike. 5.55%, enemy LD check to create Herald. 5.55%, everybody Perils.
- Horrors. Fair point, though you're not always playing a KP mission. They can't possibly be worth chasing with an expensive unit if you hide them somewhere.
- Deepstrike. Good points, maybe it's better than I thought? Nice trick for Linebreaker. But it may also cost your ability to charge, or remain in CC.
- Create Herald. Fair enough! It also doesn't do anything if there are no enemy psykers. You could try playing with LD debuffs.
- Global Perils. Absolutely game-breaking versus a psychic-dependent army when you have Magnus. You are right about the benefits from Grand Coven, but it will hurt versus armies that don't depend on psykers. You can't one-dice everything. It could be awesome though -- Warpstorm activates after your psychic phase, so the enemy psykers will ALWAYS feel the pain first!
Unlikely:
Spoiler:
2.77%, friendly LD check to create LOC. 2.77%, D3 Wounds.
Any newly conjured unit can include a Character, if you're prepared to roll on Malefic. Or just build your list to proof it against a LOC roll. As for the wounds, nice sometimes but it's gonna suck when you get tagged for 3W on a character like Ahriman or an Exalted Sorc. It's pretty improbable at least.
2016/12/24 18:01:53
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Just horde and smash into enemy lines as a distraction while preparing your beams
Can you get hammer of Wrath by utilizing the charge ability that jump confers? HOW on unit from the warherd might be fun, especially if you sorcerer cast misfortune on the unit your charging.
2500
2000
2250
1750
2016/12/24 19:58:50
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Ahriman on a disk has been a hero in the games I've used him. I usually pick one role I really need him to fill and roll his spells into the appropriate school. If I'm light on anti armor, I roll heretech till I get one of the spells I want and then he singlehandedly solves that problems by multicasting the spell. So far, I've used him to deal with invisible units (doombolt), high armor values (heretech), and MSU units in cover (psychic scream). If you're playing on tables with even a little bit of LOS terrain, he'll be easy to run solo and boost back to safety after casting. I do recommend having him attached to rubrics or something at the start of the game for alpha strikes even if you currently have first turn before the seize the initiative roll.
2016/12/25 05:41:37
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
So the only problem left is, that he can´t take a spell familiar?
stealth992 wrote: ...
Or you can just keep buying chaos everything, and not play them. Just sit alone in your room for years, painting and detailing, and detailing some more. Then keep doing that for years until you own upwards of 10000 points of chaos. Keep shining their swords and sharpening their knives. Then some day, some wonderful day, when a new book comes out that will realize your armies' potential, come out from hiding. Everyone will have thought you had left warhammer 40k for good, but no, you had been training, preparing, and brooding for this moment. Return with such vengeance and hatred that you will not hold back, and you will destroy everything in your path. Like a true chaos crusade, wait for the right moment, then burst forth from the Eye of Terror and unleash your pain on the whole universe. And when they cry and complain that you are OP and that it's not fair. Reassure them that it's true. It isn't fair, but it's what they DESERVE. All of them, each and every one of them deserve to be obliterated into oblivion. And if they ask you to play with a fluffy army, tell them you will do so. But on game day bring the meanest nastiest, ugliest army you can. Give them no opportunity for victory, give them no opportunity for enjoyment. Your only goal is to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible. And when they cry, and they will cry, laugh at them, drink their salty tears, and bath in their sweet, sweet blood.
2016/12/25 16:09:27
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
While I know that Tzaangors are not all that great, I still feel like my Thousand Sons list could use the mass of bodies for possible tarpits and "extra" wounds for a Sorc if he is in with a unit and I'd like to keep the list as Daemon free as possible (Baring a price, perhaps but not really a fan of how the models look, but Tzaangors look pretty awesome to me. *shrug*). So I'm going to run a Warherd with a War Cabal and I'm trying to decide to go with either 3 untis with pistols and CCW, or 4 units of two CCW.
2016/12/25 17:31:22
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
CaptainSomas wrote: While I know that Tzaangors are not all that great, I still feel like my Thousand Sons list could use the mass of bodies for possible tarpits and "extra" wounds for a Sorc if he is in with a unit and I'd like to keep the list as Daemon free as possible (Baring a price, perhaps but not really a fan of how the models look, but Tzaangors look pretty awesome to me. *shrug*). So I'm going to run a Warherd with a War Cabal and I'm trying to decide to go with either 3 untis with pistols and CCW, or 4 units of two CCW.
If you're in range to fire the pistols, you're in range to charge and really, how much damage to you expect to get out of the pistols? I'd keep your ablative wounds as cheap as possible since 1) They're ablative wounds, 2) You're running an expensive army in Thousand Sons and 3) One of the Benefits of the War Herd is that they can Run and Charge and that means not firing your pistols.
If you want to keep your list free of deamons, that's fine, but horrors bring so much more for a minimal extra points outlay that they really should be considered. 7ppm for what's basically a T4 cultist just doesn't set my world on fire. Think about this - Unless you get some sort of buff like forewarning or Fire Shield on the Tzaangors, rubricae are almost as durable against non-AP3 shooting as Tzaangors per point, though to be fair, that metric swings heavily to the Tzaangors favour as soon as cover is introduced, but with all the ignores cover flying around these days, that's not saying much.
Also, being only Ld7 and not fearless without an Exalted Sorc to babysit them, they're a pretty shoddy tarpit.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
2016/12/26 02:58:21
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Out of curiosity, would a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, in this detachment, suffer Perils on any doubles from Daemonology? If not, might be cool doing a little summoning while flying around and shooting mind bullets.
Also a Prince would seem to benefit nicely from The Staff of Arcane Compulsion. Basicaly for 10 pts, you're getting a Str 8, Ap2, concussive, anti charge, Force weapon. There might be something to that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/27 20:20:06
5500 points
6000 points
2016/12/27 20:20:31
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Bach wrote: Out of curisosity, would a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, in this detachment, suffer Perils on any doubles from Daemonology? If not, might be cool doing a little summoning while flying around and shooting mind bullets.
Also a Prince would seem to benefit nicely from The Staff of Arcane Compulsion. Basicaly for 10 pts, you're getting a Str 8, Ap2, concussive, anti charge, Force weapon. There might be something to that.
Daemon Princes only suffer perils on double 6s when using Malefic Daemonology. They're daemons.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2016/12/27 23:00:50
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
Bach wrote: Out of curiosity, would a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, in this detachment, suffer Perils on any doubles from Daemonology? If not, might be cool doing a little summoning while flying around and shooting mind bullets.
Also a Prince would seem to benefit nicely from The Staff of Arcane Compulsion. Basicaly for 10 pts, you're getting a Str 8, Ap2, concussive, anti charge, Force weapon. There might be something to that.
As astro_nomicon said, no, they only peril on double 6's because they're a daemon. Having said that however, you're still forced to waste a roll on the Tz table, so you've lost a level there, then you roll on maelific and unlesss you roll cursed earth or incursion, then you swap to the primaris and that's nother level gone (possibly both if you roll cursed earth) so now you've only got 1 roll left which basically means you're taking shriek. Better hope that your enemy doesn't have any reall AA because now you're a T5 model with no buffs (apart from maybe CE). A typical Sons detatchment/army is usually criminally low on WC too, so I don't know where you're going to get the dice to summon reliably and fire mind bullets.
Also, yes, a prince would benefit greatly from the staff. It's basically a better boomstick compared to the Tz daemons lesser reward weapon. I think it's an under-represented gem of a weapon even for sorcs, that -2 to charge combined with terrain is great for units that typically want to avoid combat, or at least get it on their own terms.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
2016/12/27 23:36:12
Subject: My World Is Dust And Warpflame: Tactica Thousand Sons
1. How are TS lists criminally low on WC? We do have scarabs and sorc formations now you know. My lists never have less than 20 WC, even with zero demons inside.
2. Why are people so crazy about summoning? It is a very bad use of dice. Even with a spell familiar, you need 5+ dice to reliably create a unit that will give you back 5 dice over a course of a 6 turn game... so what's the deal anyways? Why not focus on mind bullets to begin with? Why is a summoning + 2 screams better than 5 screams?
The black has no chance to win in the professional settings. Just tries to draw the game.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
2500
2000
2250
1750 
14000
4000