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It's so not worth crippling your list to include a mostly ineffective counter to a Culexus. Either summon something useful or let him chew on a Rubric squad for a few turns.

Any thoughts on CSM allies other than Iron Warriors?

Yoyoyo wrote:
It's so not worth crippling your list to include a mostly ineffective counter to a Culexus. Either summon something useful or let him chew on a Rubric squad for a few turns.

Any thoughts on CSM allies other than Iron Warriors?

Alpha Legion Infiltrating Chosen with (insert preferd weapon here) and prescience plus it feels a bit more Tzeentchy.

Regarding Chosen, 6 man squads with 4 melta guns and a Flamer is something I'm testing with.
Sering as Thousand Sons already have anti infantry stuff, you might want to spring for the fifth melta gun.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
It's so not worth crippling your list to include a mostly ineffective counter to a Culexus. Either summon something useful or let him chew on a Rubric squad for a few turns.

Any thoughts on CSM allies other than Iron Warriors?

Alpha Legion Infiltrating Chosen with (insert preferd weapon here) and prescience plus it feels a bit more Tzeentchy.

Meh, ever-mutating dudes also got a tzeentchy feel to them in my books.


In any case, someone somewhere suggested WE, as combining the astral grimore with their insane speed means you really CAN get anywhere on the table T1 with your deathstar.

WB for some summoning psyker allies could work if you are into that.

DG if you need a bodyguard squad for someone (as they are as though as it gets)

NL can get you easy melta-raptors for some speed unit and some AT.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:


The gladius is just an example that will give War Cabal issues. I'm still waiting for TS players who advocates War Cabal to provide solutions that can win effectively at 1850, so people like you who loves them Rubrics and Occults aren't providing any real lasting solutions and tactics either.

While I'm here advocating for mixing legions and Daemon allies to optimize TS to win at ITC/Nova. And I'm glad people are finally thinking that. Iron Warriors for example is a great way to supplement TS's weakness of dealing with AV.

You mean waiting for people to provide solutions other than providing the strategies I used to beat both a tau and space wolf tournament list? I'll try to get a game in against a battle company as soon as I can, but it wasn't high on my priority list because I haven't been seeing them take home many tournament wins. What I expect I'll do is focus on beams and novas that hit multiple units and then using the shooting and assault phases to take on different units. The full war cabal list I posted on one of the earlier pages shows me running melta bombs in every unit so I don't anticipate problems with the armor values. One benefit of all our psykers is the ability to engage multiple units which is usually where people fall flat against battle companies because they can't keep up with killing enough units. I've never found their bite to be very substantial.

Apparently you only think in extremes. I see a wide range of values between thinking something is garbage and being in love with it. Just because I don't think it's garbage doesn't mean I think it's the best unit in the game. I just think the terminators are solid and usable in the current meta and don't see the point in whining about them.

People aren't "finally" talking about supplementing TS lists with other forces either. It has been discussed since the very first page. The only thing you've advocated over the last few pages is "the units are garbage" and exclaiming to others that "your math is wrong" (ironically while having flawed math yourself).

I'm spending my time working more on how to combat fast ranged armies like scatbike spam. I'm leaning towards focusing on geomancy to get some mobility, shooting out of LOS, and ignores cover. It's also an army I'd be more tempted to deepstrike the occult in on. Don't have to go for risky placements, just trying to make sure you get in range.

 lessthanjeff wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:


The gladius is just an example that will give War Cabal issues. I'm still waiting for TS players who advocates War Cabal to provide solutions that can win effectively at 1850, so people like you who loves them Rubrics and Occults aren't providing any real lasting solutions and tactics either.

While I'm here advocating for mixing legions and Daemon allies to optimize TS to win at ITC/Nova. And I'm glad people are finally thinking that. Iron Warriors for example is a great way to supplement TS's weakness of dealing with AV.

You mean waiting for people to provide solutions other than providing the strategies I used to beat both a tau and space wolf tournament list? I'll try to get a game in against a battle company as soon as I can, but it wasn't high on my priority list because I haven't been seeing them take home many tournament wins. What I expect I'll do is focus on beams and novas that hit multiple units and then using the shooting and assault phases to take on different units. The full war cabal list I posted on one of the earlier pages shows me running melta bombs in every unit so I don't anticipate problems with the armor values. One benefit of all our psykers is the ability to engage multiple units which is usually where people fall flat against battle companies because they can't keep up with killing enough units. I've never found their bite to be very substantial.

Apparently you only think in extremes. I see a wide range of values between thinking something is garbage and being in love with it. Just because I don't think it's garbage doesn't mean I think it's the best unit in the game. I just think the terminators are solid and usable in the current meta and don't see the point in whining about them.

People aren't "finally" talking about supplementing TS lists with other forces either. It has been discussed since the very first page. The only thing you've advocated over the last few pages is "the units are garbage" and exclaiming to others that "your math is wrong" (ironically while having flawed math yourself).

I'm spending my time working more on how to combat fast ranged armies like scatbike spam. I'm leaning towards focusing on geomancy to get some mobility, shooting out of LOS, and ignores cover. It's also an army I'd be more tempted to deepstrike the occult in on. Don't have to go for risky placements, just trying to make sure you get in range.

That's MTGs rock, paper, scissors theory. Or the Level 1, 2, and 3 theory. You dont have to beat what you're weak against, you just have to beat what will beat what you're weak against, or beat what will be the best army at the tournie.

I had an amusing thought.

You know the Purge Detachment from Siege of Vraks? It does not allow you to take any Marks other than Nurgle, but it doesn't gave any wordings about taking any "Daemons of" another Chaos God.

Take 2 Helbrutes and a Tzeentch Prince and voila, you now have a Thousand Sons detachment without a single Mark of Tzeentch, that can now take Magnus as a Lord of War.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I had an amusing thought.

You know the Purge Detachment from Siege of Vraks? It does not allow you to take any Marks other than Nurgle, but it doesn't gave any wordings about taking any "Daemons of" another Chaos God.

Take 2 Helbrutes and a Tzeentch Prince and voila, you now have a Thousand Sons detachment without a single Mark of Tzeentch, that can now take Magnus as a Lord of War.

I think I like that better! THANKS!

EDIT: Magnus still has mark of Tz... so, I'm not sure that he can added to the Purge Detachement.

EDIT 2: well gak, I don't have my book with me... is Magnus a "Demon of Tzeenth"? Or does he have the "Mark of Tzeenth". Essentially, you're saying that since the TzDP and Maggie don't have any "marks", they fullfill the requirement of the Purges' 'Only Nurgle marks are allowed' requirement?

Magnus is a Daemon of Tzeentch. He does not have the Mark of Tzeentch. Enjoy.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Magnus is a Daemon of Tzeentch. He does not have the Mark of Tzeentch. Enjoy.

w00t!

<conjuring up some knarly 1850-2000 pts list>

What are your thoughts on Exalted Sorcerers versus regular Sorcerers? Exalteds give you 1 more wound, attack, initiative, and BS apiece, have access to Divination and Telekinesis (for more flexibility), use Inferno rounds automatically, are Fearless, and have that one-shot S9 Lance attack (although it's Heavy, which may leave the Exalted as a sitting duck after firing it unless he's on a Disc, which he should be). On the other hand, Sorcerers provide points-savings in an already point-strapped army (even if you buy them up to ML3), can take Force swords instead of being stuck with Force staves, have access to the Sigil for a potential 2++ on any turn they manifest a Blessing, and can take melta-bombs to go tank-hunting.

I think that (in a list without Magnus or Ahriman) an Exalted beatstick as the Warlord with the Seer's Bane is important to have, but for the rest of the psykers it seems to me that regular MoT Sorcerers make the most sense points-wise.

Exalteds on discs and also turbo boost 24" away to claim objectives or hide after shooting in the pyschic phase.

 nintura wrote:
Exalteds on discs and also turbo boost 24" away to claim objectives or hide after shooting in the pyschic phase.

Regular MoT sorcerers can also take discs.

The exalted are better if plan give the demon staff to make him a melee beast.
If you want do a death star of psikers, the exalted are better too. The extra shoot....well, with luck you can blow an expensive vehicle.


About the purge as a TS army......I dont understand. I mean, the TS obeys you to put Tzeentch mark to everything...and The Purge units must have nurgle.... Then how can say that the purge is a ts army?

Franarok wrote:

About the purge as a TS army......I dont understand. I mean, the TS obeys you to put Tzeentch mark to everything...and The Purge units must have nurgle.... Then how can say that the purge is a ts army?

TS doesn't require you to put MoT on everything. It requires you to put MoT on everything that can take it, and disallows you from taking anything with any other Mark of Chaos.

I mean, I don't think there's any real reason to make a TS detachment without MoT other than for the joy of watching the world burn, but it absolutely works.

It's just gaming a loophole.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/702590.page

 BoomWolf wrote:
Meh, ever-mutating dudes also got a tzeentchy feel to them in my books.

Yeah, but I don't like that stuff. More into the search for knowledge, overly convoluted plans part.

 BoomWolf wrote:
In any case, someone somewhere suggested WE, as combining the astral grimore with their insane speed means you really CAN get anywhere on the table T1 with your deathstar.

Kinda fluff killing, but would probably work well.

 BoomWolf wrote:
WB for some summoning psyker allies could work if you are into that.

Something I have actually looked into and could be quite terrifying with Ahriman's Exiles summon on a 3+ with re-rolls, on top of WB Sorcs. Would make for a lot of Daemons on the table very quickly.

 BoomWolf wrote:
DG if you need a bodyguard squad for someone (as they are as tough as it gets)

Yeah but the problem is Nurgle and Tzeentch don't get along.

 BoomWolf wrote:
NL can get you easy melta-raptors for some speed unit and some AT.

Haven't considered this, will have to look into it.

EC might be good as well with their ability to put lots of fire on a target for fairly cheap. Plus Sorcs on Steeds give Outflank to TS and you have outflanking Rubric Marines which helps mitigate their move speed some.

I got a box of Tzaangor's when the releases came out, but now have leaned towards war cabal and bought more terminators. Should I just sell the Tzaangor's box to buy some demons in case I summon or ally? Looks like Tzaangor's are pretty bad even in a CAD for TS

Tzaangors are great in their formation, it just requires a minimum of 30 models before it's legal, and even more is preferable.

In a CAD, a squad or two of 10's work well as objective holders or as extra "wounds" for a character. They're essentially good Cultists at that unitsize, being +1 WS and T for 1 ppm over a MoT Cultist.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I had an amusing thought.

You know the Purge Detachment from Siege of Vraks? It does not allow you to take any Marks other than Nurgle, but it doesn't gave any wordings about taking any "Daemons of" another Chaos God.

Take 2 Helbrutes and a Tzeentch Prince and voila, you now have a Thousand Sons detachment without a single Mark of Tzeentch, that can now take Magnus as a Lord of War.

System breaking for fun and profit XD

Though, hard to tell the advantage here, given that you usually don't practically WANT helbrutes to begin with, the mere concept of duing this is hilarius.

The issue is, hte Purge detachment, AFAIK, has no LoW slot of Magnus to fit in.


However, as there is no rule that states Magnus can only be taken in a 1ksons detachment (or exalted sorcerers, or tazzangors for that matter), he fits into a plain CSM CAD.

Yeah, that is the point, look any chaos army can take Magnus since is a "generic" LoW. As well you can take an exalted sorcerer as a HQ if you are allowed to take T mark

Purge does have a LOW , so.. this rules abuse does work :-p

Can do an all tzeentch daemon purge with a dp, two spined beasts and Magnus.
I wouldn't call it good tho...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then you have free reign to take 4 heavy support choices. include good stuff like rapiers , Which can't take marks. And blood slaughterers and plague drones... And when will the fluff abomination end...

I still like Blight Drones. The Heldrake hits harder but is harder to maneuver and aim with.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I had an amusing thought.

You know the Purge Detachment from Siege of Vraks? It does not allow you to take any Marks other than Nurgle, but it doesn't gave any wordings about taking any "Daemons of" another Chaos God.

Take 2 Helbrutes and a Tzeentch Prince and voila, you now have a Thousand Sons detachment without a single Mark of Tzeentch, that can now take Magnus as a Lord of War.

System breaking for fun and profit XD

Though, hard to tell the advantage here, given that you usually don't practically WANT helbrutes to begin with, the mere concept of duing this is hilarius.

The issue is, hte Purge detachment, AFAIK, has no LoW slot of Magnus to fit in.


However, as there is no rule that states Magnus can only be taken in a 1ksons detachment (or exalted sorcerers, or tazzangors for that matter), he fits into a plain CSM CAD.

I would rather have Helbrutes over Tzaangors as my Magnus tax.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
[

I would rather have Helbrutes over Tzaangors as my Magnus tax.

True, but you have to take a Daemon Prince as your HQ as well. OK, but not what I'd want.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
[

I would rather have Helbrutes over Tzaangors as my Magnus tax.

True, but you have to take a Daemon Prince as your HQ as well. OK, but not what I'd want.

True, but if you're running Daemons as your secondary, chances are you're going to have access to Cursed Earth and a Grimoire...that is assuming the Prince doesn't luck out on Ectomancy of course.

I'm still not sure if I like 2x Cultists/Tzaangors, 3x SOTs, or 3x DP/Exalted Sorc as a Magnus tax the best. I'm leaning heavy towards three Daemon Princes just because I wanted to do an Infernal Tetrad circus anyways, so I pretty much have the models, but there's no real clear 'This is awesome' choice. Heck, I'd be happy with a 'This is actually pretty decent' choice. .

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm spending my time working more on how to combat fast ranged armies like scatbike spam. I'm leaning towards focusing on geomancy to get some mobility, shooting out of LOS, and ignores cover. It's also an army I'd be more tempted to deepstrike the occult in on. Don't have to go for risky placements, just trying to make sure you get in range.

I think the Occult would do great here. Jetbikes are so vulnerable to Shriek, Doombolt, AP3 shooting, and backfield Morale failures.

There's two Warlord traits that could be useful versus Eldar, either zero-scatter DS or forcing difficult terrain within 12" (the exact range of Warp Spider guns).

Regarding Geomancy, the 18" bubble of "no run moves" will make Warp Spiders useless -- they can't battle focus to get out of melee range, right? So Jump Termies should clean them up in CC without issue, while S6 mauls one-shot the Exarch. Incidentally, Monofilament only wounds Exalted Sorcerers on 5's, which is cool (and easy to forget).

Incidentally, if you're dealing with Flyrants, under Treason they are just spectacular at gunning each other out of the skies. Baleful Devolution is also pretty solid if you've got a FMC to cast off. There's a recent batrep on youtube with Magnus killing 2x Flyrants in one phase with those two powers alone.

Hey guys,

I've been lurking this thread and it's been brilliant to hear people's ideas and tactics on the new Thousand Sons. I'm going to a tournament (1500 points) soon and want to take my new Thousand Sons. Last time I went to this kind of a nosebleed tournament I took a Cabalstar with KDK Fleshhounds and did okay, I found the deathstar frustrating to play though and when I lost games I always lost on objectives, I also hated that the whole list revolved around Invisability. Obviously at 1500 points I'm struggling with Thousand Sons but I quite fancy the War Cabal. Also, I do not aim to take winning seriously, a solid middle or top of the weaker lists would do me

Last time I played a tournament I came up against 3 x Knights plus summoning Wyrdvanes twice. I imagine I will again, so Ahriman is an auto include. The ability to triple fire Scrapcode or Flayerstorm I think will be crucial against mech. Against Tau, Eldar, etc Shriek is amazing, and Doombolt & Warpshock have their place, so Ahriman is in. Disc for mobility & T5 is mandatory IMO.

Next pick is an Exalted Sorcerer. L3, Disc, Spell Familiar, Seers Bane. I want this guy as a beatstick. 6+D6 attacks, fast and pretty tough, I will need this guy to run down Riptides & MCs. Rolling on Biomancy or Ectomancy for either a combat buff or a defensive buff.

Next up is two L3 Sorcerers. I'd make these Exalted but I don't have the points. Disc for when they need to run alone or as a group of discs, I'll probably put these in the Scarab Occult units (depends on the enemy/mission). These guys are my swiss army knives, if I need more Shrieks they can roll on Telepathy, if I need more rolls on Tzeentch, Geomancy, or Ectomancy they're there for that too.

Finally, 1 unit of Rubrics. Compulsory - meh, added melta bombs just incase. 2 units of Scarab Occults. I have no points left for missiles so these will just have to do as ablative wounds (2+/3++ AP3 ablative wounds) for the Sorcerers. I've read a million posts about these guys, some saying they're rubbish, others saying they're good->effective. I hope they will do well, maximising their AP3 shooting and making life hard for people around them seems clutch (Geomortis maybe? 3. Torturer of Worlds or 4. Earthly Anathema seem perfect for Scarabs)

Anyway, here is what I can cram in at 1500 points.

+War Cabal+
Ahriman [Disc]
Ex Sorcerer [L3, MoT, Disc, Spell Familiar, Melta bombs, Seers Bane]
Sorcerer [L3, MoT, Disc]
Sorcerer [L3, MoT, Disc]
Rubics x 5 [Melta bombs]
Scarab Occult x 5
Scarab Occult x 5
1500

I could drop a Sorcerer to put those points into more kitted out Scarabs but I'm not sure.

The only other type of list that appeals to me is Blue Horrors + Heralds allies to Ahrimans Exiles or a Tzeentch CAD.

Any thoughts, tips or ideas would be most welcome!

EDIT: Also, GSC - I played these the other day with my Space Marines & had a rough time. I have no idea how I'm going to beat these guys, what can I do to stop him getting lucky & charging my disc Sorcerers or Ahriman with Aberrants or Purestrains. My gut says to castle up and form the Sorceres+Ahriman into a deathstar to buff each other to a level where they might survive being charged by these sorts of units but I'm not confident, not confident at all.

Yoyoyo wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm spending my time working more on how to combat fast ranged armies like scatbike spam. I'm leaning towards focusing on geomancy to get some mobility, shooting out of LOS, and ignores cover. It's also an army I'd be more tempted to deepstrike the occult in on. Don't have to go for risky placements, just trying to make sure you get in range.

I think the Occult would do great here. Jetbikes are so vulnerable to Shriek, Doombolt, AP3 shooting, and backfield Morale failures.

There's two Warlord traits that could be useful versus Eldar, either zero-scatter DS or forcing difficult terrain within 12" (the exact range of Warp Spider guns).

Regarding Geomancy, the 18" bubble of "no run moves" will make Warp Spiders useless -- they can't battle focus to get out of melee range, right? So Jump Termies should clean them up in CC without issue, while S6 mauls one-shot the Exarch. Incidentally, Monofilament only wounds Exalted Sorcerers on 5's, which is cool (and easy to forget).

Incidentally, if you're dealing with Flyrants, under Treason they are just spectacular at gunning each other out of the skies. Baleful Devolution is also pretty solid if you've got a FMC to cast off. There's a recent batrep on youtube with Magnus killing 2x Flyrants in one phase with those two powers alone.

I'm only nervous about the getting in range part. I know when I play my dark eldar or eldar I tend to start more than 36" away and whittle opponents down. If they get close, I boost 48" away with the units being threatened. I'm eager to see how it will go though. I think I'd be in ok shape for dawn of war but am not as optimistic about hammer and anvil.

Someone else also questioned what to do with their tzaangors. I've decided to count them as cultists for my thousand sons army so that they have more flavor than the cultists for my other armies.