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OK so if you've been reading my thread Assault Drop Pods, you'l already know where this is going, if not here's some background.

firstly, thanks to everyone who participated in the afore mentioned thread. We went a bit off topic at times and I apologise if my form of correctional vocab offended anyone "sorry", all imput and opinions are important and usefull.

The real problom was I a lot of people wanted to talk about every unit that can deep strike being aloud to assault as soon as it arives, where as I was only concerned with transport vehicles which have the deep strike and either assault vehicle or open topped special rules. So I got a bit frustrated with people arguing with me that it would be fair if terminators could charge the turn they arive using teleporters or mariines assaulting straight from their vanilla drop pods, because they still wouldn't be able to, they ca'nt use the deep assault rule. The only units which could use the rule would be those embarked upon transports with the afore mentioned special rule. They assault directly from their transports.

OK, so with that hopefuly cleared up, I will make a quick address to these rules so people get the jist of what they do and then go into each rule in deapth.

I should also say these rules are already in use at my local game group and work well having produced some truly memorable moments, as well as several utterly hilarious ones.

First up, Deep Assault.
Only transport vehicles can have this rule. They have to be able to deep strike, they also have to be asssault vehicles or be open topped. This rule essentially allows the unit being transported to assault during the turn their transport arives from reserves. there arealso some cool and nasty surprises for when things go wrong. Ever seen a space marine comand squad run over by it's own storn raven? Ah fun times.

The second rule I'm putting forward is Dedicated Overwatch.
This rule is applicable to every unit with at least one gun to it's name includuding vehicles "no more freebe assaults on predators or leman russ'."
Basicaly the unit can forgo it's shooting phase for better accuracy when firing overwatch, and if they don't move either they become truly formidable.

Now to the real meat and biscuits part, The rules.

Deep Assault:

A vehicle with this special rule is subject to the deep strike special rule, except that the line which reads "The embarked unit cannot assault the turn it arived from reserves" is replaced by the line "The embarked unit can assault the turn it arived from reserves"

A unit that assaults using the deep assault rule, always treats open terrain as difficult terrain and difficult terrain as dangerous terrain. They may not asssault through dangerous terrain.

when a vehicle with the deep assault rule arives from resurves ir's controller can decide which of the following actions the embarked unit will take. They may remain onboard the vehicle finnishes it's movement as per a normal deep strike. They may disembark normaly and can then move and fire as per a nomal deep strike in this case they may not assault. Or they can "attempt"a deep assault.

A deep assault occurs as follows. Firstly the controlling player declares witch units that are allowed to deep assault will be doing so, Next for each unit wishing to deep assault the controlling player rolls a D6 and consults the deep assault mishap table adding 1 to the dice roll if the vehicle moved more than six inches in the previous movement phase. Remember unlike with a normal disembarkation, the unit does not disembark their transport until the assault phase.

Disembarkation Mishap Table:

1-3; Perfect Deployment. The unit skillfuly leap from gangways and assault ramps joiningthe the foe in bloody melee. Work out the assault as per a normal charge.

4; Staggered Deployment. a number of models stumble or loose their footing as the rush frum their transports. Work out the assault as per a disordered charge.

5; Something Went Wrong. the ramps and hatches fail to open as intendended. The unit may not disembark the vehicle this turn.

6; Something Went Very Wrong. roll another D6 on the catastrophic disembarkation mishap table.

Catastrophic Disembarkation Mishap Table:

1 or 2; Heavy Impact, Trapped. The transport hits the ground hard and the doors and portholes are jammed shut. the unit takes a number of strength 3 ap - hits equal to half the number of models in the unit rouding fractions up. the unit may not disembark the vehicle this turn.

3; Heavy Impact, Thrown, The transport smashes savagely against the ground just as uint is about to leap clear. The unit makes an emergency disembarkation. It then takes a number of strength 3 ap - hits equal to the number of models in the unit.

4; Over Shoot. The Vehicles retro jets and airbrakes fail at the last moment. The unit onboard disembarks successfully, but wishes they hadn't as the vehicle rolls or skids over them. The unit takes nuber of ap 3 hits equal to the number of models in the with a strengyh value egual to the side armour of the vehicle minus 5. The unit counts as having gone to ground. The vehicle ends it turn D3 inches in front of it's unit (D3 inches neerer the intended assault target. if this brings the vehicle into contact with a n enemy unit count it as having been tank shocked or rammed by the vehicle. The vehicle and the disembarked unit may move nurmaly in following turn.

5; Crash. The Vehicle crashes nocking it's passengers from their seats. the vehicle suffers both a crew stunned and immobilsed result on the vehicle damage table. The embarked unit may not diembark this turn. but must disembark next turn. The vehicle remains on the battlefield as a wreck.

6; Fatal Crash. The vehicle's guidance equipment, retros, air breaks and proximity censors suffer a simultainious catastrophic failure. THe vehicle smashes into the ground at full speed, bursting into a blazing cloud of roiling flame and debris. The vehicle suffers an explodes result, All models on board are removed as casualties.

Dedicated Overwatch:

An observant and forward thinking commnander can see assaults building long before the enemy is apon them. Sutch a commnander may have anumber of his hold their ground and bring down the enemies assalt craft and infantry in a merciless salvo of weapons fire.

At the start of their turn aplayer declare that some or all of their units that have at least 1 amongst them, are going to enter dedicted overwatch. the unit may not use any psychic powers during their psychic phase or fire any weapons during their shooting phase. Nor can they assalt during their assalt phase. They may thenfire overwatch durning their opponents following assalt phase. If during their opponents assalt phase they are not targeted for assault but a friendly unit within range of at least one one their weapons is, they may fire at the enemy charging that unit instead.

If a unit that declares dedicted overwatch dosen't move during movement phase. Then all weapons they fire overwatch with in the opponents next assault phase gain the intercepter rule untill the end of that turn.

A unit on dedicated overwatch fights in their opponents next assault phase at initiative 1. (They've sheathed cloae combat weapons ad beyonetes in favor of making every shot count.)

So those are house rules for assaulting from deep strike and tweked overwatch. have a read, mayde take'm for a test drive in game then post comments and sugestions.

Thanks.

Aside from trying to avoid the Interceptor rule, why is the Deep Striking assault squad allowed to stay in their vehicle until the assault phase?

Presumably this is mostly intended as a "balancing" mechanic to limit how far a unit is capable of charging... But by allowing the squad to avoid Interceptor, you're also buffing assault deep striking in ways that don't benefit shooting deep striking units.

That seems, frankly, backward. Between assaulting and shooting Deep Strike units, Interceptor should be (if anything) MORE efficacious against the guys who are running towards the enemy to try and stab them.

Instead, you should limit the ability of the Deep Assault unit to move in the movement phase (i.e. only disembarking allowed, no normal movement) and either prevent or limit that unit from running or firing in the shooting phase.

That way, the Interceptor rule is not completely meaningless against assault Deep Striking while remaining potent against shooty Deep Striking (because, y'know, that's what the Interceptor rule is designed to do - protect against Deep Striking/Reserves enemies).

I'd also recommend simplifying the tables you're rolling on to a single table. That level of granularity is not necessary for a fairly obscure rule regarding a fairly limited part of the game.

Dedicated Overwatch seems interesting, but is quite limited in its benefit in comparison to what you're giving up (the unit gives up all psychic powers and shooting AND gets an initiative penalty, and all they get in return is the Tau's Support Fire).

OK. so overwatch fire takes place during the assault phase not the movement phase.

so I it doesn't avoid anything.

And the intercepter rule is in effect durind the movement phase.

So a unit on dedicated overwatch can shoot at the assault vehicle during the movement phase as it arives from reserves.

exactiy how it works in the rule book.

And then during the assault phase they can fire on the disembarking units as they charge, at full bs might I add and they can fire cover for a friendly unit. in range if they are not themselves being assaulted.

So a unit on dedicated overwatch has two chances of snuffing out an enemy assault before it gets going.

as for outside of dedicated overwatch any unit with intercepter can shoot the transport during the movement phase.

as per the rules.

and any unit being assaulted can still fire normal overwatch.

The deepstriking vehicle and the unit assaulting from it don't avoid anything.

as for the damage tables. I do intend to shorten and combine them.

Although we've used them in dozens of games and they don't slow the game down at all. and it's great watching the assaulting player's face go pale when they roll a 6.

They're always a bit slower picking the dice up the second time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
maybe we'll let psykers throw their lightning bolts around. Don't forgoing movememt to add intercepepter is optional.

As for shooting and assault. It's obvious you wouldn't be able to do those those things.

Essentially your shooting phase moves to your opponents movement and assault phases and you obviously can't swing a sword and aim down a gun at the same time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
maybe we'll let psykers throw their lightning bolts around. Don't forgoing movememt to add intercepepter is optional.

As for shooting and assault. It's obvious you wouldn't be able to do those those things.

Essentially your shooting phase moves to your opponents movement and assault phases and you obviously can't swing a sword and aim down a gun at the same time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A quick addition here. I was Thinking of having dedicated overwatch take us back to good old 2nd edition (whish is where I started genting into the hobby) and allow any unit on dedicated overwatch to fire on any unit that moved during that enemy movement phase, and still allow them to fire assault phase overwatch at full bs, but thought it would be way too over powered. I mean a Tau battlle suit detachment could win the whole game by the end of turn two. That would be crap.

but if people have any ideas how to make it work I'd. Be happy to discuss them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've noticed another booboo. Sorry I failed to mention that a unit on dedicated overwatch fires any and all overwatch fire at full bs.

Normally, you can use Interceptor to fire at the target that was in the drop pod/whatever. Because normally, you're required to get out of the vehicle before you charge. So, it goes like this:
A unit (say, from the Skyhammer formation) deep strikes.
They disembark.
Any enemies with Interceptor may shoot at them.
They charge.
Their target can fire overwatch.
Melee ensues.

Your version prohibits firing Interceptor at the assaulting unit, (crippling that rule).

Meanwhile, your "Dedicated overwatch" rule is open to vast amounts of exploits. First off, if you don't get first player turn, I can deep strike and kill you before you get a chance to declare it. And if you do get first turn declare it, then I can safely ignore big chunks of your army and voluntarily keep my Drop Pods in reserve until turn two, forcing you to waste two turns of firepower.

You also violate a ton of logic, both in-game and out. How would a Drop Pod run anyone over? (For that matter, how would its doors get stuck?) You can normally shoot and assault in the same turn all you want, so why does Dedicated Overwatch make you I1? Also, you do realize that getting a "Doors Stuck" result on a Drop Pod is actually an advantage, right?

OK here we go, simple version no fluff.

"Only units in assault vehicles or vehicles with the open topped rule can use the deep assault special rule."

The Sky Hammer Formation includes no assault vehicles or vehicles with the open topped rule. Therefor it can not make use of the deep assault special rule.

a deep assault cannot be declared during the first game turn.

If for any reason, wether forced by their opponent or because of a mishap, a unit leaves its assault vehicle before it has a chance to charge in the assault phase, it immediately looses the deep assault special rule and cannot assaullt that turn.

Here's a simplified deep assaullt mishap table.

1 - 2 all goes well. Assault successful.
3 Assault successful but can only make a disordered charge.
4 Assault fails. Everything works as normal next turn.
5 Assault fails. Vehicle immobilised.
6 Boom. All dead.

On to dedicated overwatch.

A unit must forgo it's shooting and assault phase in order to use dedidicated overwatch allowing them to fire overwatch at their full balistic skill during their opponent's next assault phase.If the unit does not move either it also gains interceptor during the opponent's movement phase.

OK now interceptetr fire usualy targets the unit as it disembarks it's transport. Units who have gained interceptor through dedidicated overwatch may still fire interceptor shots at units disembarking normaly.

They may however also fire interceptor shots at an assault or open topped vehicle that has declared it will use the deep assault special rule. in this case they are firing at the vehicle before the assaulting unit can get out and attack. Stopping the deep assault from taking place.

Models on dedidicated overwatch can fire at any enemy assault unit within range regardless of the source of the assault or what friendly unit is being assaulted. If however they are themselves assaulted they must fire at the unit assaulting them.

Remember, hatever unit they are firing at they do so at their full balistic skill.

And I think that about covers everything.

Skyhammers have Drop Pods, first off all.

Second, your "Simplified" chart reduces the chance of success by a quarter, and makes death six times as likely.

Third...
Look, I could go into the huge list of conflicts, problems, and imbalances that this creates. But that'd take a while, and I have stuff to do this afternoon, so I'm just going to say that this is a long, complicated list of rules that create lots of conflicts, hugely upset game balance, and has a lot of inconsistent or otherwise bad rules.

Skyhammer has Drop Pods. Drop Pods are Open-Topped Vehicles. "Units in . . . vehicles with the Open-Topped rule can use the deep assault special rule."

Your version of the rules gives ANYTHING coming in a Drop Pod the choice to Deep Assault.

Also...

You're still giving Assault units bunker protection from Interceptor fire, which means you're treating Assaulting-from-Deep-Strike and Shooting-from-Deep-Strike differently, and counter-intuitively.

Normally, the Interceptor has a choice - fire at the vehicle, OR fire at the squad that exited out of it. That's the way the rules normally work.

In your proposal, your Deep Striking special snowflake assault units can ONLY have their vehicle attacked by Interceptor models, and can not be subject to Interceptor fire themselves.

This is my contention of imbalance, and you haven't addressed sufficiently addressed it.

Why not make all Interceptor equal (because it really should be, given its purpose) and force the assault unit to disembark during the movement phase, with appropriate restrictions (no moving, no/limited shooting), with the narrative time they would have spent moving and/or shooting instead dedicated to making that 2d6 assault move and (if successful) assault?

Also, you've stated you've played some games already using this. Which armies against which armies? How did you resolve Waaaghpower's "didn't get first turn" scenario?

I think amovent phase exit is the way to go. It simplifies a lot of who can fire when questions. I shall amend both deep assaultt and dedicated overwatch.

incidentally I believe peple are not quite getting the idea of dedicated overwatch. It's not designed to take the place of standard overwatch. It's simply a mechanic for improvind your units overwatch abbilities while sacrificing several own turn options.

Also you can have some units go on dedicated overwatch and some not it's an as you nedd it tool, not a be all and end all rule,

with the misap table I was just being arsey I apologise. People where grumbling two tables was too mutch, then there was the whole flavour text not being accurate to the game, when all it was intended to was to maake people laugh and crack a smile. I think I'll try a D12 table next time.

Here's the stinger though. Which is the more broken rule One that allows units to assault the turn they arive from reserves, which can be used by any army which has the appropriate vehicles to do so ( and let's face it, that could be every army if the stuck one more vehicle option in each codex.) Or a rule that alows units to deep strike turn one with no risk of scatter or mishap that's only available to imperial space marines?

In fact if you wan't a fair and fun game get rid of imperial space marines altogother or at least re-wriight them from the ground up. I stopped playing imperial space marines becausse I got so bored of automatically winning all the time that it stopped being fun.

You say it should be available to all factions-but it isn't.

Currently, the only people who have it are Space Marines and (using Forge World) Chaos Space Marines.

So, if I were you, I'd add on extra vehicles for other factions too, so it's more fair.

So... is the shooting penalty for dedicated overwatch reverse interceptor?

Interceptor: at the end of the opponents movement phase you can shoot at units that deep-struck etc, but forgo your next shooting phase with that weapon.

So if i don't fire turn 1, choosing to dedicated over watch, fire in your assault phase, lose shooting in my phase due to interceptor, then choose not to dedicated overwatch for, reasons. Then I cannot shoot until my turn 3?

or is the DedOv establishing the penalty in reverse? Don't shoot your, to shoot at them in the assault phase of their turn, and then shoot your own turn?

Alright I'm gonna level with you, this is a bloody aweful idea.

The first step in rule making is you need to ask your self is this, does this simplify? Or complicate the current rule set? If the latter it better be for a good reason, of which, this is not.

There is no reason for these rules to be added as the provide nothing but more complication to the rules for what? Deep striking vehicles and assaulting out of them? Why make this massive complicated rule set.

Shooting is already way strong let's not make it stronger.

Instead of assaulting the thread with a literal wall of test let's take this is steps.


First off just answer this, what is your goal for the Deep assault rule. I don't want how it's going to work, or that, just tell me, what is your end goal for the rule. Assaulting out of see strike?

Let's bring back assault from outflank and stationary transports first and see how that works.

Martel732 wrote:
Let's bring back assault from outflank and stationary transports first and see how that works.

Stationary transports O.o. What like web way portals?

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Let's bring back assault from outflank and stationary transports first and see how that works.

Stationary transports O.o. What like web way portals?

I don't know the rules for that specifically. I mean like Rhinos that haven't moved. Web way is still deep striking, so no assault.

Martel732 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Let's bring back assault from outflank and stationary transports first and see how that works.

Stationary transports O.o. What like web way portals?

I don't know the rules for that specifically. I mean like Rhinos that haven't moved. Web way is still deep striking, so no assault.

Ohhhh gotcha gotcha, you mean like the transport did not move I read that as bringing back stationary transports was like....those were a thing?!

The deep assault rules as they are laid out seem unnecessarily complicated. Also it fails 50/50 of the time with no enemy interaction and some of those fails outright kill the unit? Yeah no thanks.

I've pitched the idea before of getting rid of assault phase overwatch and making overwatch "instead of shooting in the shooting phase, a unit may go into overwatch. This unit gains interceptor until the start of their next turn. If the unit elects not to fire at a target that arrives that turn, it may instead fire at any enemy unit that approached within 12" (charge range) of the unit."

Follow that up with de-restricting a ton of assaults. Let people assault from stationary transports, deep strike, outflank, after running etc. (But probably not summoning.)

I feel like that could really even out some ground between many of the not-ridiculous assault units and shooting. If you see the opponent has a ton of DS melee, you could easily set up in a close formation and declare overwatch, and then essentially take your shooting phase after they all DS in, causing morale checks and the like. You could also do it in response to units coming from out behind of a LoS blocker or transport that you couldn't pop, essentially giving the player the option to say "guys, wait for them to get out here in front of us to fire" instead of missing that opportunity.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
The deep assault rules as they are laid out seem unnecessarily complicated. Also it fails 50/50 of the time with no enemy interaction and some of those fails outright kill the unit? Yeah no thanks.

I've pitched the idea before of getting rid of assault phase overwatch and making overwatch "instead of shooting in the shooting phase, a unit may go into overwatch. This unit gains interceptor until the start of their next turn. If the unit elects not to fire at a target that arrives that turn, it may instead fire at any enemy unit that approached within 12" (charge range) of the unit."

Follow that up with de-restricting a ton of assaults. Let people assault from stationary transports, deep strike, outflank, after running etc. (But probably not summoning.)

I feel like that could really even out some ground between many of the not-ridiculous assault units and shooting. If you see the opponent has a ton of DS melee, you could easily set up in a close formation and declare overwatch, and then essentially take your shooting phase after they all DS in, causing morale checks and the like. You could also do it in response to units coming from out behind of a LoS blocker or transport that you couldn't pop, essentially giving the player the option to say "guys, wait for them to get out here in front of us to fire" instead of missing that opportunity.

What if the enemy gets first turn? You don't have a chance to declare Overwatch, so he can assault you willy-nilly.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
The deep assault rules as they are laid out seem unnecessarily complicated. Also it fails 50/50 of the time with no enemy interaction and some of those fails outright kill the unit? Yeah no thanks.

I've pitched the idea before of getting rid of assault phase overwatch and making overwatch "instead of shooting in the shooting phase, a unit may go into overwatch. This unit gains interceptor until the start of their next turn. If the unit elects not to fire at a target that arrives that turn, it may instead fire at any enemy unit that approached within 12" (charge range) of the unit."

Follow that up with de-restricting a ton of assaults. Let people assault from stationary transports, deep strike, outflank, after running etc. (But probably not summoning.)

I feel like that could really even out some ground between many of the not-ridiculous assault units and shooting. If you see the opponent has a ton of DS melee, you could easily set up in a close formation and declare overwatch, and then essentially take your shooting phase after they all DS in, causing morale checks and the like. You could also do it in response to units coming from out behind of a LoS blocker or transport that you couldn't pop, essentially giving the player the option to say "guys, wait for them to get out here in front of us to fire" instead of missing that opportunity.

What if the enemy gets first turn? You don't have a chance to declare Overwatch, so he can assault you willy-nilly.

Really, there just shouldn't be a way to assault first player turn, unless you intentionally place your models in such a way to allow it. That's the thing I dislike about Skyhammer, it's an interesting ruleset, but practically impossible to respond to in any reasonable way if you don't get first turn.
(BTW, this is also how I kill Imperial Knights: They move their shield in the Shooting phase, meaning that you can blast them with Psychic Powers from a drop pod before they get a chance...)

Nemesis Strike Force would also be able to assault turn one. They get Deep Strikers on turn one.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You say it should be available to all factions-but it isn't.

Currently, the only people who have it are Space Marines and (using Forge World) Chaos Space Marines.

So, if I were you, I'd add on extra vehicles for other factions too, so it's more fair.

um Dark Eldar Raider and Tantalus. they're oppen topped and can deep strike.

And Orks? Daemons? Tau? (Okay, they don't like CC.) Tyranids? (Okay, they have the Tyrannocyte.) Necrons?

What's the list for a nemesis strike force?

and 1 of the rules for deep assault is that it cannot be used turn 1.

So if someone who could read who also had the capacity for deductive thought were to read what I've writen earlier they would know nothing would be used able to assault turn 1. it's against the rule itself.

God you would think if people can write then they'd be be able to read aswell. aparently this is not the case.

 Andross wrote:
What's the list for a nemesis strike force?

and 1 of the rules for deep assault is that it cannot be used turn 1.

So if someone who could read who also had the capacity for deductive thought were to read what I've writen earlier they would know nothing would be used able to assault turn 1. it's against the rule itself.

God you would think if people can write then they'd be be able to read aswell. aparently this is not the case.

I reread your opening post. Nothing in there says you can't use it turn one.

Nemesis Strike Force is 1 HQ, 1 Troops minimum.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Andross wrote:
What's the list for a nemesis strike force?

and 1 of the rules for deep assault is that it cannot be used turn 1.

So if someone who could read who also had the capacity for deductive thought were to read what I've writen earlier they would know nothing would be used able to assault turn 1. it's against the rule itself.

God you would think if people can write then they'd be be able to read aswell. aparently this is not the case.

I reread your opening post. Nothing in there says you can't use it turn one.

Nemesis Strike Force is 1 HQ, 1 Troops minimum.

He added the rule in a later post where he updated some stuff. (It was after I pointed out the same issue.) That being said, for someone giving other people flak about writing, his grammar can be pretty difficult to parse at times, so I don't blame anyone for missing it.

I see it now.

Of course, that rule makes no particular sense-what is it about the first turn that makes it any harder to assault than any other turn? See, the "No assault from reserves" makes sense as a universal-you can argue it either way, but it makes sense that just arriving on the battlefield would stop you from being ready to charge.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:
The deep assault rules as they are laid out seem unnecessarily complicated. Also it fails 50/50 of the time with no enemy interaction and some of those fails outright kill the unit? Yeah no thanks.

I've pitched the idea before of getting rid of assault phase overwatch and making overwatch "instead of shooting in the shooting phase, a unit may go into overwatch. This unit gains interceptor until the start of their next turn. If the unit elects not to fire at a target that arrives that turn, it may instead fire at any enemy unit that approached within 12" (charge range) of the unit."

Follow that up with de-restricting a ton of assaults. Let people assault from stationary transports, deep strike, outflank, after running etc. (But probably not summoning.)

I feel like that could really even out some ground between many of the not-ridiculous assault units and shooting. If you see the opponent has a ton of DS melee, you could easily set up in a close formation and declare overwatch, and then essentially take your shooting phase after they all DS in, causing morale checks and the like. You could also do it in response to units coming from out behind of a LoS blocker or transport that you couldn't pop, essentially giving the player the option to say "guys, wait for them to get out here in front of us to fire" instead of missing that opportunity.

What if the enemy gets first turn? You don't have a chance to declare Overwatch, so he can assault you willy-nilly.

Really, there just shouldn't be a way to assault first player turn, unless you intentionally place your models in such a way to allow it. That's the thing I dislike about Skyhammer, it's an interesting ruleset, but practically impossible to respond to in any reasonable way if you don't get first turn.
(BTW, this is also how I kill Imperial Knights: They move their shield in the Shooting phase, meaning that you can blast them with Psychic Powers from a drop pod before they get a chance...)

That's Exactly how Overwatch worked in 2nd and 3rd edition and it was flawless.

Thak God there's someone out there who can still draft a core rule.

That's kind of what I was going for with my dedicated overwatch only I was keeping the shooting in the opponent's assault phase rather than move it back to your opponent's movement phase, to make it easier for people who've never played real 40K. Youve got to ease'm in slow or their heads explode. It happend at my local store an unprepared newb reading back isues of White Dwarfe and old rules eratta and Boom brains everywhere.

We can make 40K great again, we just have to go realy, realy slow.

 Andross wrote:
Thak God there's someone out there who can still draft a core rule.

Unlike you?

I do like Niv's suggested changes to Overwatch. It makes Overwatch actually valuable, rather than a bit of extra, mostly pointless die-rolling.

How would that work with Grim Resolve and Supporting Fire, though?

Waaaghpower wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Andross wrote:
What's the list for a nemesis strike force?

and 1 of the rules for deep assault is that it cannot be used turn 1.

So if someone who could read who also had the capacity for deductive thought were to read what I've writen earlier they would know nothing would be used able to assault turn 1. it's against the rule itself.

God you would think if people can write then they'd be be able to read aswell. aparently this is not the case.

I reread your opening post. Nothing in there says you can't use it turn one.

Nemesis Strike Force is 1 HQ, 1 Troops minimum.

He added the rule in a later post where he updated some stuff. (It was after I pointed out the same issue.) That being said, for someone giving other people flak about writing, his grammar can be pretty difficult to parse at times, so I don't blame anyone for missing it.

Yeh Sorry about that I apologise. I was actualy arguing with my girlfriend white I was typing and Iturned into a total biatch . Sorry again.

As for my grammar and spelling, as I said in my introduction thread I'm severely dyslexic and have to write with all auto crrect options and spell check on and sometimes my computer want's to write in Martian. If I wriite anything realy weird, copy the word or sentence with a question mark and I'll post the explanation or correction.

Also at my game club we don't allow deep strike on the first turn. So when I write rules involving resurves I don't think to say that they can't be used in the first turn. So if I'm writing rules that involve deep strike or resurves then they can never be used turn 1.

So how does that work with Drop Pods? Their whole shtick is turn one Deep Strikes.

 pumaman1 wrote:
So... is the shooting penalty for dedicated overwatch reverse interceptor?

Interceptor: at the end of the opponents movement phase you can shoot at units that deep-struck etc, but forgo your next shooting phase with that weapon.

So if i don't fire turn 1, choosing to dedicated over watch, fire in your assault phase, lose shooting in my phase due to interceptor, then choose not to dedicated overwatch for, reasons. Then I cannot shoot until my turn 3?

or is the DedOv establishing the penalty in reverse? Don't shoot your, to shoot at them in the assault phase of their turn, and then shoot your own turn?

If a unit goes on over it can't shoot in your shooting phase. then when they fire overwatch on your opponents next turn they do so at full ballistic skill and they are able to fire overwatch for another friendly unit within range as long as they are not being assaulted themselves in which case they have to shoot at the unit assaulting them.

Now if when a unit chooses to go on dedicated overwatch it chooses not to move during that turn, then all ranged weapons ih that unit also gain the interceptor special rule during the turn if fires overwatch.

The penalty four adding interceptor is not moving the turn they declare dedicated overwatch. in your turn following turn they fired dedicated overwatch you can psych, move, fire and assault normally. (or go back on dedicated overwatch). In the case of adding interceptor to the unit. this is an agmentetion to the dedicated overwatch rule. it is paid for by you not moving during the turn dedicated overwatch was declared that is it's only cost.

So summary. Declare dedicated overwatch for units who will be using it. Those units can't fire their weapons or declare assaults this turn. On your opponents next turn your units can fire at full bs and can fire overwatch for friendly units in range.

If a unit on dedicated overwatch chose not to move during the turn they declare dedicated overwatch then in addition to the perks listed above all weapons in the unit gain interceptor till the end of the turn in which they fire dedicated overwatch.

the following turn clean slate. Start fresh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So how does that work with Drop Pods? Their whole shtick is turn one Deep Strikes.

Well this is thing with drop pods. When they first came out for Imperial space marines their only job was simply give the deep strike to units like Tacticle Squads or Sternguard Vets. Units that couldn't deep strike on there own. This was already way over powered and while I still played Imperial Space Marines Iwould never have more than half my force in pods as I considerd it cheating,

Then they brought out rules for deep strike on turn 1 in pods. That completely broke the game so Igave away my Imparial Cheat Marines and stuck to my Chaos, Nids D Eldar.

Then they made it so pods couldn't scatter or mishap. So now Imparial Space Marines are nothing more than a sad pathetic joke.

I'd like to rebuild my Dark Angels and Sisters army but not untill they stop them being the instant win crap shoot they've turned into.
I can see why people who can't play might choose them as a training wheels army, but once youve got the rules down you should really swap to an army that requires some semblance of creativity and intelligence to win with. Trust me I did and did my self respect the world of good.