Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I’m getting back into the hobby after many years out of it. I was just going to do Age of Sigmar even though 40k was always more my jam than fantasy because I sold all my 40k armies but had a random assortment of unpainted fantasy figures still sitting around, but I saw some OOP Necromunda characters I couldn’t resist on eBay and grabbed some of those great-but-ubiquitous Dark Vengeance cultists too, so I guess I’m starting a 40k renegades force too.

As for what I’ll get in the future… I have a bunch of Pig Iron gas mask heads and tons of Chaos bits I can use for converting future infantry. I don’t really want to paint any tanks, but Tauroxes appeal to me in an Oldhammer way. I’d like to put a bunch of spikes on one or two of those, and I’d also like some Bullgryns –– those gas mask heads they already have look perfect. I guess my actual questions are:

What do people field renegades as? Is the Forge World Vraks codex still up to date? Should I just field them as Imperials rules-wise if I'm not planning on mixing in any units from the CSM list? What can I field those Dark Vengeance cultists who have autoguns and stuff as from the IG lists?

Can you mix the AM/MT lists? Tauroxes and Bullgryns don't appear to be from the same army, exactly. I saw someone reference that you can mix-and-match lists generally in 40k now if you take penalties, is that so?

Thanks.

Unbound rules let you take whatever you want. As long as you have the data sheet for the units you have, and remember that different alliance levels have rules that might need to be implemented, you can have an army of whatever you want.

The current 'Renegades' lists are in Vraks v2 and IA13. There's both current, legal, and pretty similar to each other, but the Vraks list is limited to Khorne/Nurgle only and they have a few different vehicle choices.

Neither one would let you run Tauroxes, but a bit of conversion work and you could probably call them counts-as Chimeras without too much trouble. As for Bullgryns Renegade Ogryn are an expensive and awesome unit that's full of conversion potential, but they don't perform very well on the table.

If you don't want specific Chaos-aligned stuff, FW vehicles, Daemon Engines, or Daemon/CSM allied forces you'll probably have an easier time using the AM book. The MT book is quite literally five unit entries copy-pasted wholesale over from the AM book with their own Warlord Traits and a few alternate Orders, and you'll probably have more luck using regular Guardsmen with Tauroxes than the MT book anyway.

Allies are a concept new in 6th edition; an army these days consists of a number of Detachments, which may be the normal 1-2 HQ/2-6 Troops/etc. you're familiar with from earlier editions, different detachments with different requirements and benefits, Formations with a defined list of units and more powerful benefits, or meta-formations composed of multiple formations. Any detachment can be from any Codex, you can mix and match as freely as you'd like; most armies don't treat each other as friendly for purposes of psychic buffs, transports, joining units, et cetera, however, so you'll usually see allies made of Imperial armies only, Eldar armies only, or CSM/Daemons.

Detachments/factions/allies/formations take some getting used to and can get complicated if you want to dig into them; your simplest approach is probably just to grab the AM book or IA13 and play a normal CAD (which is the force org chart you'll know) until you're comfortable with this edition.

Thanks. I guess I should have asked specifically, can the MT field Bullgryns without a full AM detachment with troops and HQ and stuff? I don't necessarily want to paint the amount of troops a straight IG army entails and I like the look of Scions for converting. I assume Scions are elites for AM and troops for MT, am I correct in that assumption? Are there rules for guardsmen with autotguns? There used to be rules for Arbites with autoguns in the Witch Hunters codex...

P.S. Nice to see a fan of both Eisenhorn and Malazan!

Yes you are right about the scion unit types changing between codices. If you wanted MT with bullgryns and no AM troops, you'd need to go unbound. Most people don't care about that unless you are just trying to waac.

Chaos currently is viable thanks to IA Siege of Vraks and IA 13. Yes both formations are very good for the current ruleset and meta in 7th edition. You see the purge detachment the most since its much easier to buy/build/paint 150 zombies than it would be to do up the same amount of guardsmen. An airbrush can do wonders on zombie hordes. Throw in some artillery and you have a solid base of an army for about 1k points and 850ish left to field other interesting things and still be good.

The unending host formation requires so many guardsmen is why I'm thinking you don't see it used often. Unlike zombies, you cant airbrush up a horde in a weekend. The thought of 15+ guardsmen with flamers or melta guns returning on your flank after being destroyed on a 2+ is redunkulas.

Tauroxes and Bullgryns don't appear to be from the same army, exactly.

Tauroxes and Bullgryns are actually both featured in the Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) codex, and can be used in a standard Combined Arms attachment.

I'll probably do AM then and field those cultists as my regular guardsmen. Are there rules for fielding guardsmen with autoguns or do I need to convert them with lasguns if I want them to be wysiwyg?

PS Not planning on doing 150 of anything! More of a skirmish-sized force.

 nymrod wrote:
I'll probably do AM then and field those cultists as my regular guardsmen. Are there rules for fielding guardsmen with autoguns or do I need to convert them with lasguns if I want them to be wysiwyg?

PS Not planning on doing 150 of anything! More of a skirmish-sized force.

Lasguns/autoguns have identical statlines, I don't expect you'd have any issues.