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Hello Dakka,

I was toying with some nice option to pimp a bit the Tempestus. I know many people just consider them a branch of IG, and with a reason, but many other like the concept of a simple and difficult elite-but-normal-human army.

I just added very few options, and I think that even adding one of these elements (the new orders) would help immensely these dudes. Still, this would be an army better used for small point games or with support/supporting other imperials, and I am fine with that.

Feel free with being merciless, but stay on topic. Feel free to tell me that an order or rule sucks, but please refrain from "TS armies should not exist".Some people like them, get over it. If you disagree, open another topic, ok? Thank you.

Codex: Tempestus Scions by Kaiyanwang - a 40k Fandex

Tempestus Scions are the elite of the Imperial Guard and the core of the Militarum Tempestus, also known as Stormtroopers. They are specialised in careful plans and destructive, focused attacks. They often help Inquisitors, Marine chapters and Imperial Guard taking charge of a specific mission. Some regiment has its specific Stormtroopers, as an example Cadia and its famous Kasrkins. Scions mix the use of fast transports and aerial support, deepstrikes and excellent training to deliver a payload of death into the enemies of the Emperor.

NOTE: if I don't mention something, is because is unchanged compared to the codex: Militarum Tempestus. Astra Militaurm codex will be referenced, too.
As an example, the Warlord Traits are unchanged. I will not mention them (we can work on them later, I would change 1-2 of them but is not the priority).

Point Cost Changes and modifications:


Orders and new orders system


HQ


Troops


Elites


Fast Attacks


Heavy Supports


LoW:


Formations


What do you think, DAKKA? If you don't like the Infiltrators, Incursors and Demolitors, I can re-work the with only HQ and Troops, and re-introduce the old Stormtrooper missions of 5th edition, but this time army-wide (or detachment-wide).

EDIT: Track of edited, removed parts

I get the change to the Plasma Pistol, but why the Special Weapons? Those are the same universal cost and it isn't like they're cheaper because the guy using it is worse off than someone else.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I get the change to the Plasma Pistol, but why the Special Weapons? Those are the same universal cost and it isn't like they're cheaper because the guy using it is worse off than someone else.

I advocate that the price should take in consideration

1) the platform (its BS and resilience, and how easy is to deliver)
2) which weapon they go to substitute.

Concerning point (2), you pay 10 points to get a melta that upgrades a lasgun in the IG veterans, and pay the same cost for a melta that updates an Hot-shot las for the Scions.
Does not sound right to me.

Also, aren't there new units that pay less for melee upgrades?

Still, I can happily backpedal on this, especially since for point (1) the scions have a decent deal.

Let's see other comments, but I can modify the OP (tracking changes) and follow the advice.

I amended the weapons, I left the change to the plasma pistol.

Do you think the pricing of squads and taurox is fine? Should I modify some?

Incursors seem really weak, losing ObSec for outflank seems like a bad trade-off. Infiltrators are probably going to be just as good at holding homing beacons too. What you could do is combine the benefits of infiltrators and incursors, letting them take outflanking transports (in case anyone forgot, infiltrate gives outflank by default).

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Incursors seem really weak, losing ObSec for outflank seems like a bad trade-off. Infiltrators are probably going to be just as good at holding homing beacons too. What you could do is combine the benefits of infiltrators and incursors, letting them take outflanking transports (in case anyone forgot, infiltrate gives outflank by default).

You are completely right, they are redundant. I wanted to give them specialized roles, but this had the effect of over-specialize them (I was aware of the effect of infiltrate, but I admit split the rule in 2 roles in base of the transport is bad design). Furthermore, one of the few strenght of the army is the possibility to take multiple CADs of Objective Secured units plus their fast transports.

I will merge Incursors and Inflitrators. Even better, I could use one of these solutions:

Solution A: I will leave HQ and Platoon Troop as the only choices. Stormies lose Deep Strike by default and gain the Mission rule. Each CAD can, collectively, select its Mission, 5th edition style, and such Mission can be: (1) Deepstrike with rerolls (2) Infiltrate (so with Outflank) (3) Ride of the Valkyries (units embarked in Valks reroll their reserve rolls).

Solution B: As Solution A, but on a per-unit basis: each unit in each CAD chooses the mission. Clunky? Is just the deployment mode, is easy to track.

Solution C: GW style: keep as is, but add a Reconnaissance Formation for 2-4 infiltrators/incursors to give them Objective Secured.

Give them a bike/speeder option, as well as access to sentinels. Maybe to Hellhounds and Wyverns.

 Stormonu wrote:
Give them a bike/speeder option, as well as access to sentinels. Maybe to Hellhounds and Wyverns.

I can see the sentinels, even drop sentinels, be in the "theme" of the army. Even the hellounds and variants.

For Artillery, I think one should ally in IG. Is really out of theme for Scions (but I completely see WHY you would ask for it).

The bikes/speeders* would be really in theme, but I would stick to current options.... still I can think a bit about them, if you want to contribute with some bike idea, feel free.


* the speeder is a call back from older IG, right? Like 2nd edition?

It doesn't even have to be a speeder, but a light, Fast Scout Vehicle would probably be in order, at the least.

The Tauros?

Something like that. It looks fantastic, but will FW allow Citadel to make it?

(almost thought you were referencing the Taurox)

Wasn't there one in the 3rd/4th Ed codex which was called the Salamander? That could work, too.

I will have to dig the manuals but makes perfectly sense. Stay tuned, i will update the list ASAP.

Also, I will try to design the bikers and call THEM incursors.

Why not instead of having 3 different units give generic scions scout (pseudo infiltrate and outflank) and the option to take sniper rifles and demo charges, while still having deepstrike. This means you have one flexible unit which can do all the roles you have 4 units for.

Sensible?

Taffy17 wrote:
Why not instead of having 3 different units give generic scions scout (pseudo infiltrate and outflank) and the option to take sniper rifles and demo charges, while still having deepstrike. This means you have one flexible unit which can do all the roles you have 4 units for.

Sensible?

Is what the proposed rule "Mission" is for.



Is good, but if I go that way i have to remove the Demo Charge unit because even if I limit to 1 charge per unit, you will have people spamming it (with allies SM or another high-powered army) and deliver 6 S:8 AP:2 plates for less than 500 points.

So that unit option must be ditched or reworked. Possibly, limiting the use only if a Tempestus is the Warlord, and/or demo units lose deepstrike, so you have to load them in valks (made less heavy of a tax with BS 4) to properly deliver.

But focus on less units and more choice could be the way.

Keep going, people, lots of good insights. Thank you.. and give me more!

I don't think heavy flankers really suit scions, I've never heard of any models not in power armour carry a heavy flamer.

I think just give them the scout special rule on top of deepstrike. Infiltrates a bit much. Maybe scion vehicles could have scout as well. Free 12" move for taurox? Outflanking Valkyries?

I think you're on the right track. Mission tactics is probably the way to go and have it on a platoon by platoon basis.have a choice of deepstrike, outflank, or scout(without outflank). Then you can build interesting synergies between basic platoons with a scout one to set up the drop zone, deepstrike to come in a clear, the outflank to close the net. I think move through cover should be standard on most units as well.

Add in some cool army wide rule/detachment about selecting 3 units to arrive from reserve turn 1, 2 on turn 2 and 1 on turn three. How's you can't use reserve rolls for the first three turns if you pick that option. Represents a three wave drop with intial shock, second beach head, third clean up.



Heavy flamers can be taken by imperial guard vetrans btw.

heres an idea, how about when deploying, having the ability to infiltrate half your units (rounding up) or T1 deepstrike half your units (rounding up). The rest of the army can deploy normally.

I still think everyone should have scout as well as deepstrike though

Taffy17 wrote:
heres an idea, how about when deploying, having the ability to infiltrate half your units (rounding up) or T1 deepstrike half your units (rounding up). The rest of the army can deploy normally.

I still think everyone should have scout as well as deepstrike though

isn't that the Elysian Drop Troops trick? And SM obviously, with pods.

I am thinkering with options, probably I am close to the final draft.

I was wondering: could be cool a special character? I was thinking about an intrepid commander one, no special stats, more training. More a Creed than a Straken, so to say.

It would cost 30-50 points, normal stats, HQ choice as an upgrade of the standard HQ. In his detachment, Junior officer can use senior orders.

If is too strong, I could add a risk factor like if is killed 1 additional VP is awarded, or nearby squads must make a Ld test.

Since Scions are so dependent on reserves, a SC with some sort of buff to reserves (my own custom SC has the 4th WL in the Scion 'dex, for example) would be a good way to represent that

 Bobthehero wrote:
Since Scions are so dependent on reserves, a SC with some sort of buff to reserves (my own custom SC has the 4th WL in the Scion 'dex, for example) would be a good way to represent that

Well, many SC have a pre-rolled Warlord Trait, so it can be done I guess...