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 Imateria wrote:
Far too risky, DE lack much in the way of reserve manipulation. Relying on the Scalpel Squadron is putting yourself far too out there for an early tabling before you can get your units into the game.

Well...its not too risky. But it may exceed your own appetite for risk. I'll buy that much.

I play with reserves pretty muchall the time so it doesn't bug me at all. =)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:

Power From Pain favors the slow blade. So when you have a tool wherein you can go second and use the Scalpel Squadron, it's really ideal. When played the way that is ideal, you kind of steal the enemies thunder for two rounds and STILL bring the same pain, but with less time for the enemy to kill you after wards, by two turns no less. Dark Eldar can take up space REALLY well and they can blockade well. So if you see your army for what it is, a damage dealing porcelain hammer, and you are able to get the jump on theenemy and then weather the return engagement better because theres less time for attrition it can be a real winning combination.

i agree with the point you're trying to make, but I don't think 2 Venoms with some Wracks is the stalwart force you want staving off a swift tabling. You'd have to get funky with allies and/or a fortification for the reserve tricks you'd need to make that even sort of viable. You can't afford to have your fragile boats roll in piecemeal. Having 2/3 of your army scoot in, an average roll, might not be sufficient.

There is an alternative against most armies. Simply be 43" away when the game starts. This also works. Or be 55 inches away as the case may be. It works against an awful lot of enemies and since I use Aethersails like they are going out of style, it bothers me not at all. Hehehe.

I played a game today with my DE, first time in a few years... and...

I won!

Against a pretty competitive Eldar list nonetheless!

I mentioned I was playing DE for the first time in a while, and he said he was playing Eldar. Followed by a groan I begrudgingly deployed my army, he put down a wraithknight, scatbikes, warp spiders, three crimson hunters, pretty competitive. Seizing the Initiative basically won me the game however, as my grotesquiery sprinting up the board first turn exploited his offensive deployment and drew all his fire turn one and two.

My takeways, ravagers are really not good, and I think the fliers might be a bit overpriced...

Thoughts? Would a single talos work better than a ravager? Blasterborn did very well, and their blaster fire single handedly killed the wraithknight, and I had plenty of AT without it. Scourge did well, even though he only had a single wave serpent.

So I think I might switch the ravager for a talos, but I don't have anything to substitute the razorwings with. Thoughts?

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I played a game today with my DE, first time in a few years... and...

I won!

Against a pretty competitive Eldar list nonetheless!

I mentioned I was playing DE for the first time in a while, and he said he was playing Eldar. Followed by a groan I begrudgingly deployed my army, he put down a wraithknight, scatbikes, warp spiders, three crimson hunters, pretty competitive. Seizing the Initiative basically won me the game however, as my grotesquiery sprinting up the board first turn exploited his offensive deployment and drew all his fire turn one and two.

My takeways, ravagers are really not good, and I think the fliers might be a bit overpriced...

Thoughts? Would a single talos work better than a ravager? Blasterborn did very well, and their blaster fire single handedly killed the wraithknight, and I had plenty of AT without it. Scourge did well, even though he only had a single wave serpent.

So I think I might switch the ravager for a talos, but I don't have anything to substitute the razorwings with. Thoughts?

Maybe replace them with scourges. Personally, they're my favorite unit in the game, with great looks, plus actual armor, decent mobility, and being able to take lots of dakka

I would love to, but I only own 5. I would like either more venoms or some reavers, but funds are low these days.

 Imateria wrote:
If your Cronos is hanging around buffing Wracks then it's out of position as it should be biffing Talos or Grotesques.

I've tried the Scalpel Squadron and whilst automatic turn 1 deep strike is nice I quickly find myself wondering "what else can it do?", with the answer invariably being nothing.

To each their own. I've gotten 2 or 3 points off their First Blood boost a couple of times, and with a WWP Artisan they aren't very difficult to boost with the Cronos. They tend to be a second or third wave assault unit for me if I use them, they can turn a lengthy tarpit battle with ATSKNF foes holding up the Artisan into a slightly quicker win in my experience. They can eat anything short of a powerfist with their FNP, which is alright in my book. That said I use them infrequently.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I played a game today with my DE, first time in a few years... and...

I won!

Against a pretty competitive Eldar list nonetheless!

I mentioned I was playing DE for the first time in a while, and he said he was playing Eldar. Followed by a groan I begrudgingly deployed my army, he put down a wraithknight, scatbikes, warp spiders, three crimson hunters, pretty competitive. Seizing the Initiative basically won me the game however, as my grotesquiery sprinting up the board first turn exploited his offensive deployment and drew all his fire turn one and two.

My takeways, ravagers are really not good, and I think the fliers might be a bit overpriced...

Thoughts? Would a single talos work better than a ravager? Blasterborn did very well, and their blaster fire single handedly killed the wraithknight, and I had plenty of AT without it. Scourge did well, even though he only had a single wave serpent.

So I think I might switch the ravager for a talos, but I don't have anything to substitute the razorwings with. Thoughts?

Nicely done! Glad to see the Grotesquerie doing work

On the Scalpel Squadron front, if you're worried about survivability why not take 2? 5 Wracks in a Venom with an Ossefactor is only 10pts more than 5 Kabs with a Blaster in a Venom. They'll do similar work against squishies, hit with Fleshbane AP2 against a GMC, and provide a half-decent tarpit if necessary. Plus, you can pretty much guarantee that 4 Venoms full of Wracks will net you that boosted First Blood.

The other purpose I see for them is to support a Grotesquerie.

There's been a conversation over on The Dark City about tactical layering. Basically, you pick one dead-killy unit to be your 'focus'. That's the unit that will mulch through the enemy scarily quickly, provided it gets to the right place. Then, you build up your forces to support that unit so that it can do its work, and because it's the focus of your opponent's attention the rest of your army benefits too. By working cohesively, your army becomes more than the sum of its parts (which is important when you're playing DE as your 'parts' aren't necessarily competitive on their own). One important thing to note is that the role of your supporting units in not to necessarily be competitive themselves, or ensure their own survival. Their primary objective is to make sure the Focus gets where it needs to go, and murders what it needs to murder.

So, to work this through:

Focus: Grotesquerie
2x 4 Grots in Aethersail Raiders with a Scissorhand/Sump Haemi and a Glaive/Haywire Succubus. Their job is to turbo-boost up the table turn 1 and wreck face turn 2.

1st Layer: Close Support
This layer needs to work very closely with the Grotesquerie, either tarpitting significant threats, distracting their fire or killing them entirely. People suggested Reavers for this job as they can keep up with the Aethersail Raiders, but my thought was why bother keeping up when you can be there to begin with? Infiltrators like a blob of Mandrakes or allied Scorpions would do a stellar job of being threatening enough to draw enemy fire and supporting the Grots. The other option for this would be a Scalpel Squadron with its guaranteed turn 1 Deep Strike, 5++ dual S/C Venoms and a scary sounding Fleshbane AP2 Calcific Spears gun (make sure you explain the rules for that one in detail).

2nd Layer: Tactical Support
This is your mid-ranged support to focus-fire on specific types of target that will ruin your Grots' day. Blasterborn, Blaster Kabs in Venoms and Haywire Scourges fit very nicely here. As would allied Eldar Rangers to snipe out hidden powerfist/klaws. Their secondary objective is to consolidate the territory you've gained through your Grotesquerie's murder rampage, zipping out to contest objectives and still staying as a threat due to their ranged firepower.

3rd Layer: Covering Fire
Long-ranged firepower to suppress the enemy after you've won your initial combat. More Venoms, Dissy Ravagers, maybe a flier. These guys look to the next step after your Grots have wrecked face where they are. They pave the way for your Grots to move onto their next target by eliminating things ahead of the curve.

What do you reckon? Haven't tried it myself, but others on The Dark City have sort of noticed that they do this a little unconsciously, and by intentionally doing it can increase the effectiveness of their army.

Grotesquerie ALWAYS does work!

I played another game today, against tau. I lost, but the only reason I lost was because I went second.

I had the grotesquerie, almost the same list as before, except I switched out the ravager for a talos, which was a good choice.

The grotesques got the +1 tougness from the table, which was insane. It took a ton of dedicated tau shooting to drop them, and they were truly scary for my opponent.

However, Immobilized one of the raiders, so there was only one in his backlines turn 1. Which lost me the game. The Talos took a ton of punishment, the IWND kept him alive.

He also seemed to know the importance of venoms in my list so he targeted them first, which was a great tactical move on his part.

It was a fun and close game either way!

Kinda unsure about disintegrator ravagers myself today. I say this because they did a rather good job vs some flyrants (possibly far above average actually considering the poisoned shots did crap). To wound isn't so hot but the fact you can move 12" and even jink and shoot snap shots anyway it can make shooting at flyers or even flying monstrous creatures halfway decent. Part of it is sheer volume of shots. You shoot 9 shots each and if you have 2 ravagers it's an average of 3 hits and 1 wound or 1/6 glance and 1/6 pen (if it's rear armor of flyer or armor 10 flyer). At ap 2 you avoid armor and add +1 to armor pen on vehicle damage. Not great by any stretch but it will cause a grounding check on a flying MC and vs a flyer they may have various damage that they take as well. Not too hot but in certain cases it can do ok.

I'm curious about something though. You guys don't like blasters on scourge and prefer them on trueborn. Why? I can understand that if you put them in a raider you can jink and they won't snap fire (considering the new FAQ). Also they can turbo-boost to an area like a gun-line and jink and next turn they get their shots regardless of the jink. However they take up elite slots which i prefer incubi or grotesques (or at least when i get the grotesques) and scourge have a 12" move with an 18" range gun. Often i can get the first turn shots off with blaster scourge. Perhaps in gun-line it's much harder but depending on deployment you should be able to get it fairly fast and fleet on em also helps should they need to move to cover to avoid getting shot up. I guess the point is scourge can't always get their in 1 turn and they're far more fragile? I suppose i could see that.

Scourge can deepstrike, and heatlances/haywire is better than a blaster.

Also, trueborn can take a venom (I like them in a venom) so that's a plus.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Scourge can deepstrike, and heatlances/haywire is better than a blaster.

Also, trueborn can take a venom (I like them in a venom) so that's a plus.

Heat lances are better against vehicles and ok against other units. Haywire is only really good vs vehicles and practically useless vs everything else (see my thread on this). Considering the lack of vehicles in higher tier armies which we have a hard enough time with i just prefer heat lance to them as heat lance can do something in all games whereas haywire does nothing vs non-vehicles armies (nids, tau, often eldar and few vehicles in some other lists)

Blasters scourge are something i dunno if i want to deepstrike. I could see it but considering the turn 2-4 wait time to see if they come in, the fact that your army is without them that long (esp. during turn 4 reserves on a bad day) and the fact that tau interceptor can shoot them off like a big freaking joke (and they stupidly can get that on everything) i'd say i'm better keeping them on table without deepstrike. For blasterborn i could maybe see a deepstrike in a raider or venom as the armor might keep them alive a bit longer. I generally go by the rule that you want as little in DS as possible (usually it's my heat lances with an archon with webway attached and little else if anything). I have been screwed too hard by turn 4 reserves to want to try this. Dark eldar are fragile as is but with only half or even 3/4 of our army in points on table it's a massive expense.

Yeah, I agree on the heatlance bit, but that's just from personal experience.

I don't like blasterborn in general, they are way too expensive for what they do. If you deepstrike them, its easy to be screwed by scatter/reserves and the venom has nice range so it can hold back and put off fire until its needed in the midfield.

I don't like the idea of the raider because it doesn't achieve a specific goal on its own considering its price. It is very easy to kill and I don't want my super expensive fragile blasterborn unit in my enemies frontline so that takes away the mobillity the raider has over the venom. It's also tougher but its not tough enough to justify its cost or lack of a role. I like raiders for grotesques because the raiders role is to go fast and get the grotesques as close as possible to disrupt and draw fire, but for blasterborn I don't think that mobility really benefits them much, but they need to be close for the blasters.

Just my $0.02

Yeah I think it's definitely the Venoms that make Blasterborn more viable than Scourges. Scourges are relatively fragile so best to keep them as cheap as possible. Venoms give them a modicum more survivability.

I've heard good things about running Blasterborn with 3 Blasters rather than 4. Similar damage potential, but a fair chunk cheaper.

The other thing was running 3-man Reaver squads with Caltrops and a Blaster. Gives them a massive range of things they can kill, all in a fast, JSJ, Moves Through Cover, improved jinking platform.

Scourge are our best anti tank unit at range, but only with a Haywire Blaster or Heat Lance, you can Deep Strike in close to the enemy vehicle and destroy it quickly, Darklight weapons just aren't as good in that role. Of course, the downside here is that Scourges are then so specialised that you need to know what kind of army you're facing before hand and there are too man people who think list tayloring is solely for TFG's and don't understand that for some armies it's the only way to get a decent game in without the same old mono build every time.

With Blasterborne they're 5ppm cheaper than Scourge with Blasters, which means the Venom you will be taking only adds an extra 25pts, which given it's own mobility, increased survivability and duel splinter cannons that can be fired at a separate target to that of the Trueborn inside makes for an excellent us eof the points and has a lot more utility.

The problem with Raiders is not so much with them but with our army, at present there is no point at all in running any 10 man squads, we're far better off going MSU, which means Raiders only ever have a use when transporting Grotesques.

For Reavers, I find running 6 man squads to be far more usefull than 3 man squads and just don't bother with the guns on them because you'll be jinking so much of the time anyway. The only time I'd consider running 3 man squads is if I went double Realspace Raiders Detachment for 12 Fast Attack slots.

Yeah Raiders are pretty much Grot boats, although they do have some situational use with Shock Prows and removing models from play using Tank Shock after the latest FAQ.

As for Reavers, it was 6 man squads I got it wrong. It was from this thread on The Dark City where Lawrence from Tabletop Tactics won the No Retreat tournament with DE: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t14453-tabletop-tactics-lawrence-wins-no-retreat-iii-tournament-with-dark-eldar-rsr

Shock Prows are useless, I would say taking Splinter Racks and using it as a gun boat, especially if running the Purge Cotorie formation where the Arhcon gives out Preferred Enemy, is a much better choice.

I think any Dark Eldar player should follow Tabletop Tactics, Lawrence is definitely the best DE player out there and it gives one hell of a schooling with him explaining his tactics and reasons for taking specific units and loadouts, especially in regards to competitive play.

Scalpel squadron is the best DE formation, but the way people play makes it bad.

By the RAW there are no limits on formation repeating, so RAW you could take 2 or 3 of this formation. The way people organize play limits this by the player base to the benefit of honestly imperial armies who don't need, and can't repeat many formations within the 1850 points most people play.

Eh, I don't like the idea of the scalpel squadron simply because the wracks aren't that good. They are a solid tarpit at best, but not against much that matters. They will tie up marine squads and the such, but what wont? I'll experiment with it but I don't have high hopes.

TT are probably my favorite BR channel out there, and Lawrence is a great guy and an even better DE player.

SkaredCast is also a great All-dar channel, a bit more optimistic and less competitive, but an awesome player that helped me get into DE easily.

 Imateria wrote:
Shock Prows are useless, I would say taking Splinter Racks and using it as a gun boat, especially if running the Purge Cotorie formation where the Arhcon gives out Preferred Enemy, is a much better choice.

I think any Dark Eldar player should follow Tabletop Tactics, Lawrence is definitely the best DE player out there and it gives one hell of a schooling with him explaining his tactics and reasons for taking specific units and loadouts, especially in regards to competitive play.

They're not completely useless since the FAQ, simply because of this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709084.page#9036437. Could also situationally Tank Shock units out of cover so they can be assaulted, but I'll agree that Splinter Racks definitely do more work (although removing an Invisible Librarian from play would be cause for celebration).

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Eh, I don't like the idea of the scalpel squadron simply because the wracks aren't that good. They are a solid tarpit at best, but not against much that matters. They will tie up marine squads and the such, but what wont? I'll experiment with it but I don't have high hopes.

TT are probably my favorite BR channel out there, and Lawrence is a great guy and an even better DE player.

SkaredCast is also a great All-dar channel, a bit more optimistic and less competitive, but an awesome player that helped me get into DE easily.

I'll second the praise for Lawrence and Skared. Both great players

Agreed on the Wrack front I think. If they could take 2 Ossefactors for every 5 bodies that would be kickass do they have utility against MCs? Poisoned weapons would help.

As a frequent opponent of Dark Eldar, Covens is a pretty nice add for DE.
Grotesquerie, Dark Artisan, Corpsethief Claw, Razorwing, Scourges, Medusae, WWP Archon (get the 2++ item) and Kabalites+Venoms are all trouble! DE can easily complete objectives like Domination and Supremacy, if you let those pesky Venoms alive (and sometimes the guy fields EIGHT of them!)... but then you won't be dealing with the hulking Talos coming your way!

Realmspace Raiders is quite weak, don't use that.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


I'll second the praise for Lawrence and Skared. Both great players

Agreed on the Wrack front I think. If they could take 2 Ossefactors for every 5 bodies that would be kickass do they have utility against MCs? Poisoned weapons would help.

Skari's another good one, I'd like to see how his type of list works in bigger tournements, particualrly with the way he favours reserve manipulation.

Wrack Tools are Poisoned and the Hexrifle that the Acothyst can take is Sniper but it's a real shame you can only take one in the sqaud. Interestingly the Acothyst is one of only two characters that can take the Venom Blade, the other being the Scourge Solarite for some bizzare reason, but it's 10pts unfortunately.

 Vector Strike wrote:
As a frequent opponent of Dark Eldar, Covens is a pretty nice add for DE.
Grotesquerie, Dark Artisan, Corpsethief Claw, Razorwing, Scourges, Medusae, WWP Archon (get the 2++ item) and Kabalites+Venoms are all trouble! DE can easily complete objectives like Domination and Supremacy, if you let those pesky Venoms alive (and sometimes the guy fields EIGHT of them!)... but then you won't be dealing with the hulking Talos coming your way!

Realmspace Raiders is quite weak, don't use that.

RSR has its uses, but most of the time CAD is better
If you need to load as many FA choices as possible, like going Reaverspam, then RSR is better, as you require less HQ and Troops to do so. In most cases though, DE isn't really going to need that many FA slots. Maybe some Scourges or a couple Reavers

I think FA is one of our best slots. Reavers and scourge are all good, I can see myself bring tons of MSU reavers, so RSR has some purpose.

Any thoughts on the Voidraven bomber? Does it really do much? I see it a lot but it just seems expensive.

The Voidraven Bomber does serious work.

I don't doubt it, but is said work worth the points? I kinda really want one, and with christmas around the corner... I can splurge a little bit...

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I don't doubt it, but is said work worth the points? I kinda really want one, and with christmas around the corner... I can splurge a little bit...

Well I can tell you the list I use it in:

225pts Court of the Archon (2 Medusae, 1 Ur-Ghul, 1 Lhamaian, 6 Sslyth)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aethersails)

40pts 5 Kabalite Warriors
65pts Venom (Dual Splinter Cannon)

40pts 5 Kabalite Warriors
65pts Venom (Dual Splinter Cannon)

Fast Attack:
265pts Beast Masters (4 Clawed Fiends, 4 Razorwing Flocks, 3 Khymera, 1 Beast Master w/ Agonizer)

Elites:
165pts 7 Incubi (Klaivex w/ Demi-Klaives)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aetherails)

70pts Haemonculus

165pts 4 Grotesques (Abberation W/Agonizer)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aetherails)

165pts 4 Grotesques (Abberation w/ Agonizer)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aethersails)

Ravager

Ravager

Bomber (implosion Missiles)

This is the list I use it in. My list is ULTRA highly aggressive. It couldn't play more like orks if it tried. The Bomber is left to do its grisly work round after sumptuous round, blasting away with abandon. Love it. Why does it work? Because the enemy simply is mired in bad news by the time it shows up and can do little about it.

The key to a unit like that is to make sure that the enemy doesnt just HAVE a bunch of free units that can fire at the Bomber freely (and obviously you have to fly intelligently with it).

It is even better thanks to the new FAQ which is official from GW about the placement of the Bomber. You can no longer "maneuver to kill" planes like you could before (an absurd tactic but one I freely used until this recent FAQ came out).

 Jancoran wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I don't doubt it, but is said work worth the points? I kinda really want one, and with christmas around the corner... I can splurge a little bit...

Well I can tell you the list I use it in:

225pts Court of the Archon (2 Medusae, 1 Ur-Ghul, 1 Lhamaian, 6 Sslyth)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aethersails)

40pts 5 Kabalite Warriors
65pts Venom (Dual Splinter Cannon)

40pts 5 Kabalite Warriors
65pts Venom (Dual Splinter Cannon)

Fast Attack:
265pts Beast Masters (4 Clawed Fiends, 4 Razorwing Flocks, 3 Khymera, 1 Beast Master w/ Agonizer)

Elites:
165pts 7 Incubi (Klaivex w/ Demi-Klaives)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aetherails)

70pts Haemonculus

165pts 4 Grotesques (Abberation W/Agonizer)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aetherails)

165pts 4 Grotesques (Abberation w/ Agonizer)
60pts Raider (Enhanced Aethersails)

Ravager

Ravager

Bomber (implosion Missiles)

This is the list I use it in. My list is ULTRA highly aggressive. It couldn't play more like orks if it tried. The Bomber is left to do its grisly work round after sumptuous round, blasting away with abandon. Love it. Why does it work? Because the enemy simply is mired in bad news by the time it shows up and can do little about it.

The key to a unit like that is to make sure that the enemy doesnt just HAVE a bunch of free units that can fire at the Bomber freely (and obviously you have to fly intelligently with it).

It is even better thanks to the new FAQ which is official from GW about the placement of the Bomber. You can no longer "maneuver to kill" planes like you could before (an absurd tactic but one I freely used until this recent FAQ came out).

Ha, I've made a more aggressive DE list than that!
Purge Coterie
Archon w/ shadowfield, agonizer, hwg 130
blasterborn in venom 180
6 reavers w/ arena champion, agonizer, 2 CC's, 2 heat lances 181 points
1 raider w/ dark lance, Aethersails

Purge Coterie
Archon w/ shadowfield, agonizer 125
blasterborn in venom 180
6 reavers w/ arena champion, agonizer, 2 CC's, 2 heat lances 181 points
1 raider w/ dark lance, Aethersails

Grotesquerie
4 grots w/ abberation, scissorhand 160
4 grots w/ abberation, scissorhand 160
Haemonculous 70 points

Everything runs face first into the enemy and tries to eat them

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:

Ha, I've made a more aggressive DE list than that!
Purge Coterie
Archon w/ shadowfield, agonizer, hwg 130
blasterborn in venom 180
6 reavers w/ arena champion, agonizer, 2 CC's, 2 heat lances 181 points
1 raider w/ dark lance, Aethersails

Purge Coterie
Archon w/ shadowfield, agonizer 125
blasterborn in venom 180
6 reavers w/ arena champion, agonizer, 2 CC's, 2 heat lances 181 points
1 raider w/ dark lance, Aethersails

Grotesquerie
4 grots w/ abberation, scissorhand 160
4 grots w/ abberation, scissorhand 160
Haemonculous 70 points

Everything runs face first into the enemy and tries to eat them

Aggression approved!

I used to bring three Blasterborn units in Venoms to the party and do a simialr thing. whe nit comes to Dark Eldar, aggression and more aggression is the coolness.

Though you must admit, yours is shooty agressive with some melee support. Mines wants to bash some skulls in and OH BY THE WAY, perhaps shoot you once in a while.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I think FA is one of our best slots. Reavers and scourge are all good, I can see myself bring tons of MSU reavers, so RSR has some purpose.

Any thoughts on the Voidraven bomber? Does it really do much? I see it a lot but it just seems expensive.

Usually no our flyers suck. I'd say the void raven is sadly in a bad spot. The bomb would be nice if we got more than one or if it was like a deathstrike missile in size (i mean we only get one freaking bomb and it scatters). Odd how something insanely powerful in the description is only str 9 ap 2 large blast, lance, bomb. You'd think it'd be like at least the lower end of apocalyptic template or str D or even ap 1. I haven't tried the razorwing jetfighter but i can't imagine it's in a much better spot.

The main issue with our flyers is that they're already fragile and against armies without dedicated aa it's not too bad or if you can kill the aa before it takes out the flyers you should be in a decent spot. Seems silly you can hurt it with boltgun fire though.

The biggest issue with the void raven bomber is that it's a unit that doesn't do enough damage for its points (or perhaps i gave it the wrong load-out or wrong targets. Once you drop the bomb and fire all 4 missiles it's just a 2 shot weapon. Perhaps i should've gone for dark scythes on mine rather than void lances as then i'd get str 8 ap 2 small blast and against targets that are large it'd probably hit it more frequently anyway as well as give me some insta-kill potential on units of things with t 4 and fnp but i'm unsure as it is only a small blast and small blast can often suck.

I will say this though the void raven is a beautiful model so if you have 85 USD to burn and you don't mind the price or have a lot of money then go for it. Just don't expect it to swing battles your way. It's definitely not hellion level of bad.

------

My current list is downstairs but the things i want out of dark eldar that i have yet to get are mostly grotesques with either a haemonculus leading each or maybe even a succubus leading in some cases. Use the raider to transport them up as fast as possibly with aethersails and night shields. Weapons on the transports would be a waste most. If possibly just give them the upgrade for re-roll leadership but i'm mixed on that as by the time your raiders get there a couple will die so perhaps some can use their RR LD ability to improve checks so your guys don't freak out and get pinned. Not sure if it'd be a waste of points since you're working on a 9 or 8 LD but a pinned grot unit is not something you'd ever want.

So far what i can field and wish to field with what i have is:

Scourge x5
-blasters x4
=140 pts

Scourge x5
-blasters x4
=140 pts

Scourge x5
-heat lance x4
=120 pts

Reavers x6
-caltrops x2
-heat lance x2
-champ.
=156 pts

Reavers x6
-caltrops x2
-heat lance x2
-champ.
=156 pts

Ravager (basically load-out)
-night shields
125 pts

Ravager (basically load-out)
-night shields
125 pts

Void Raven
-shatterfield missiles x 4
-void lance x2
-night shields
=215 pts

incubi x5
-champ.
*Raider
-enh. sails
-night shields
=185 pts

Archon
-webway
-power sword
-blast pistol (you get an extra attack as well as a good gun you can place close enough after you pop up from webway)
-shadow field
-soul trap (i don't wanna insta-gib an enemy hero if it only counts one wound going through to boost his strength +1)
=180 pts

Warriors x5
*Venom
-splinter cannon
=145

Warriors x5
*Venom
-splinter cannon
=145

Dunno if i changed the list any but that's pretty much my last 1750 pts list. I'll use more incubi and grotesques when i can use them and knock out the ravagers maybe. It really depends. I think the void raven is least needed right now though but we'll see.

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I'd actually debate Elite slots are more important than fast attack in some ways. You get all the nasty combat units like incubi and grotesques in there and they do a good job and even trueborn sound like a good cheap unit for blasters. The potential of turbo-boosting some raiders with them into area terrain or forests on the map and having a good turn of covered shooting is nice. Considering the FAQ we'll even be able to jink without passengers firing snap shots. Also heard a friend talk about using them with dark lances but either would be nice.

 Imateria wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


I'll second the praise for Lawrence and Skared. Both great players

Agreed on the Wrack front I think. If they could take 2 Ossefactors for every 5 bodies that would be kickass do they have utility against MCs? Poisoned weapons would help.

Skari's another good one, I'd like to see how his type of list works in bigger tournements, particualrly with the way he favours reserve manipulation.

Wrack Tools are Poisoned and the Hexrifle that the Acothyst can take is Sniper but it's a real shame you can only take one in the sqaud. Interestingly the Acothyst is one of only two characters that can take the Venom Blade, the other being the Scourge Solarite for some bizzare reason, but it's 10pts unfortunately.

Absolutely

Yeah the Venom Blade thing is odd. I think Dark Eldar suffered the most from the Chapterhouse lawsuit as their codex was released directly after it. Big panic about IP and all the options were cut that didn't have models to represent them (Scourges and Wracks are the only ones with Venom Blades in their kits), which frankly is just moronic. Why sell someone Kabalites when you can sell them Kabalites and nudge them towards getting Scourges too so your Sybarite can have a Venom Blade?

Counter-intuitive knee-jerk reaction from lawyers and accountants.

 Jancoran wrote:
The Voidraven Bomber does serious work.

What's the formation that gives the Voidraven's bombs S?