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Pretty much as the title states. At the moment, both Ogryns and Bullgryns are seen as somewhat subpar units with the possible exception of Slab Shield Bullgryns, albeit simply as a mobile cover bonus to whatever units they are supporting; which is in itself at odds with their fluff of a bunch of dunderheads who love getting into the thick of it. With that in mind, I'd like to propose the following:

- Merge Ogryns and Bullgryns into a single unit, and still keeping it as an Elite choice.
- Keep the Ogryn's current statline and wargear.
- Change "Very bulky" to "Bulky".
- Reduce the base cost to 115 points per squad for 2 Ogryns and 1 Ogryn Bone 'ead.
- Give the unit the following options:

Options:



New wargear:



Overall, the idea is to improve the Ogryn's tactical viability; particularly with respect to close combat, though they probably still won't be crushing truly dedicated close combat units. The added bonus is that all the suggestions - such as giving Ogryns the flexibility of choosing which power weapon they take - don't require any change to the models as they are or make use of bits that already come with the models (in the case of Rage-spirators).

Rage-Spirators seem a couple of points too expensive on an already-expensive unit, as does swapping for the shield+power weapon. Maybe make the rage-spirator 3 pts and the swap 15 pts like in the codex.

Just to clarify, the proposed unit's stock kit is flak armor, ripper gun, and frag grenades, and the grenadier gauntlet in the codex is renamed the grenadier gauntlet with frag shells?

I agree with Gnome Idea What, partially. I can see a reason to bump the price (Mixing and matching weapons means that you can potentially give half the shield and half without,) but Ogyrns are overcosted as it is, so keeping them a bit cheaper is fine. However, I'd keep the Rage-spirator at 5 points, because S8 on the charge means Instant Death against Space Marines, and should absolutely cost a few points.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Rage-Spirators seem a couple of points too expensive on an already-expensive unit, as does swapping for the shield+power weapon. Maybe make the rage-spirator 3 pts and the swap 15 pts like in the codex.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I agree with Gnome Idea What, partially. I can see a reason to bump the price (Mixing and matching weapons means that you can potentially give half the shield and half without,) but Ogyrns are overcosted as it is, so keeping them a bit cheaper is fine. However, I'd keep the Rage-spirator at 5 points, because S8 on the charge means Instant Death against Space Marines, and should absolutely cost a few points.

Actually, the reason why the shield & power weapon combo's price went up was to help compensate for the price cut I gave to Ogryns vanilla - resulting in Bullgryns with Brute shield and Power weapon costing exactly the same as in the codex; except now with the freedom to choose any Power weapon and the ability to cram more into a transport.

As for the Rage-spirator idea, I feel one of its main utility is in combo with Hammer of wrath; resulting in S:6 auto-hits (or S:8 with Power mauls); resulting in them being able to insta-kill multi-wound models; for only a (relatively) small price hike.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Just to clarify, the proposed unit's stock kit is flak armor, ripper gun, and frag grenades, and the grenadier gauntlet in the codex is renamed the grenadier gauntlet with frag shells?

Yup. That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

If bullgryn cost as much as they do in the codex, they cost too much. Also, about one-shotting SM, terminators can do that with powerfists with better AP, and I assume ogryn should be able to fulfill a similar role. Due to the AP termies will be better at tank hunting and MEQ killing (they're better at shooting too), but the ogryn throw out more attacks.

All Ogryn/bullgryn are too expensive currently. Some just worse than others. Points need to come down.

Another answer might be found in the past. In the original 3rd edition Imperial Guard codex ogryn came with a ripper gun and a close combat weapon, and could trade in the ripper gun for a +1 strength Close combat weapon. I know I used that option quite a bit.

What if the current ogryn came standard with a close combat weapon. Then you could upgrade the weapons and armor individually. So, something like:

Unit of 3 ogryn for 105 points. Come with Ripper gun and CCW. May upgrade to Carapace armor for 5 points per model.

Any model may:
Trade either the CCW and/or Ripper gun for a Power Weapon, brute shield, or slab shield (points cost debatable)
Trade the Ripper gun for a Grenadier gauntlet