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Just been noodling around with actually running Perturabo since the new RoW came out, here's what I was thinking of running since I have all the models already:

HQ
Perturabo

Legion Command Squad
5 Terminators in Cataphractii
Plasma Blaster
2x combi plas
1x chain fist
2x lighting claws
2x power fist

Consul
Primus Medicae
Cataphractii Armor

Damocles Command Rhino

Troops

Veteran Tactical Squad
Marksmen
Sgt w/ Artificer Armor and Combi Flamer
2x Heavy Flamer

Veteran Tactical Squad
Marksmen
Sgt w/ Artificer Armor and Combi Flamer
2x Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support
10x Tyrant Siege Terminators
1x Chainfist

General strategy is to put Perturabo with the Primus Medicae and the Tyrants then null deploy. Terminators Deepstrike, Vets outflank.

2+ reserve rolls and no scattering within 24" of the command Rhino (effectively 36" since it can move 12" when it comes on).

Perturabo and the Tyrants will just muck whatever they get near with his split firing bombardment, +1 BS from his Cognis Signum and Tankhunter on 20 Krak missiles.

Things should get messy very quickly, especially if I can't take out those pesky AP2 blast and large blast machines, but it would be pretty fun to play overall.

Sounds good although you cant really null deploy, you obviously need the damocles on the table. Its risky and fun. I like it.

Does the Damocles have to start on the table to use the bonus to reserves? I haven't been able to track down the actual rules for it yet, just working off battlescribe.

Otherwise, bc Perturabo lets you roll for reserves T1 they can actually null deploy, but yes it's risky especially if I'm not getting the +1 from the command rhino.

I like it although I find that it's generally worth adding in a Siege Breaker for the Tyrants squad since Perturabo does not confer tank hunters to his squad.

In fact, I'd recommend that you drop the command squad altogether and get another smaller tyrants squad, while perturabo's squad has the Siege Breaker+ Primus. But it's a lot of eggs in one basket at 2k pts.

Yea, it needs to be in play for the benefits of both the Geo-locator Beacon and the Command Vox Relay.

Really not worth taking, imo.

That Deep Strike footprint is way too big. Pert doesn't need a retinue that large, since he is a freaking tank!

SCRATCH THAT ADVICE; I CAN'T READ!

With something like that my main worry would be augury scanners.
In either case i would strongly suggest against a null deployment and suggest you look into havocs as a back field unit with 10 tyrants and perty with a siege breaker as a spearhead for your scoring units.

 King Amroth wrote:
With something like that my main worry would be augury scanners.
In either case i would strongly suggest against a null deployment and suggest you look into havocs as a back field unit with 10 tyrants and perty with a siege breaker as a spearhead for your scoring units.

Augury scanners? That is really not that big of an issue, is it? I rarely see anyone bother and even still, you can weather quite a storm with Perturabo, 5 durable Termies, and a Primus Med. And the Leviathian isn't sweating much. So...

Plus, the point of Perturabo is to drop into the enemy zone. That FC bump is nice and you don't have nearly the mobility to slog it up-field against a load of firepower. Better to just drop near and smash them up, imo.

Honestly i have them on nearly everything in my army and since i always run with a few units of havocs aswell. imagine getting shot 60 time by bolt guns and nthen anything left gets hit with some lascannon or whatever. If you put the effort into building that kind of force, people will put in the effort to kill it.
There isnt really anything durable about tyrants, the save is great but they are only 1 wound.


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If your going to do it you better be in a position to weather casualties.

 King Amroth wrote:
Honestly i have them on nearly everything in my army and since i always run with a few units of havocs aswell. imagine getting shot 60 time by bolt guns and nthen anything left gets hit with some lascannon or whatever. If you put the effort into building that kind of force, people will put in the effort to kill it.
There isnt really anything durable about tyrants, the save is great but they are only 1 wound.


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If your going to do it you better be in a position to weather casualties.

Well, that requires me to drop in within 18" of you and for it to be within range of a whole ton of your army. And if all I am staring down is Bolters, I will just have Perty tank the shots with his 2+ T6 6W IWND self. He can eat 60 Bolter shots and walk away with maybe a single wound on average, because Primarch. And a Leviathan chuckles at bolters, so you got to hope he drops within 18" of a Lascannon, or he will make your life kinda bad, as AV13 with a 4++ is just unpleasant. Depending on meta, too, I could go for the Grav-Flux which is just exceedingly unpleasant. The CML is mostly to help off those scary things in one shot (Knights and Super-Heavies, etc).

So, just not that worried about Augury Scanners. The range limitation on them really does stymie their effectiveness. And say I go with the Drop Assault Vanguard over PC, I can force you into Snap Shots and get nice and close, setting up that gross charge with my Stubborn Furious Charging dudes.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Honestly i have them on nearly everything in my army and since i always run with a few units of havocs aswell. imagine getting shot 60 time by bolt guns and nthen anything left gets hit with some lascannon or whatever. If you put the effort into building that kind of force, people will put in the effort to kill it.
There isnt really anything durable about tyrants, the save is great but they are only 1 wound.


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If your going to do it you better be in a position to weather casualties.

Well, that requires me to drop in within 18" of you and for it to be within range of a whole ton of your army. And if all I am staring down is Bolters, I will just have Perty tank the shots with his 2+ T6 6W IWND self. He can eat 60 Bolter shots and walk away with maybe a single wound on average, because Primarch. And a Leviathan chuckles at bolters, so you got to hope he drops within 18" of a Lascannon, or he will make your life kinda bad, as AV13 with a 4++ is just unpleasant. Depending on meta, too, I could go for the Grav-Flux which is just exceedingly unpleasant. The CML is mostly to help off those scary things in one shot (Knights and Super-Heavies, etc).

So, just not that worried about Augury Scanners. The range limitation on them really does stymie their effectiveness. And say I go with the Drop Assault Vanguard over PC, I can force you into Snap Shots and get nice and close, setting up that gross charge with my Stubborn Furious Charging dudes.

T:6 doesn't matter when he's in a majority T: 4 squad, which makes those bolters waaaaaay more spooky than they were before. Additionally, Augury scanners are dirt cheap, so you will probably end up bumping into one or two eventually, unless your local meta really never expects deep strikes

Fair point. Was just looking at raw numbers against Perty.

But the chance of getting hit with that many shots is unlikely. It is looking at it in a vacuum, which doesn't factor in deployment, terrain, and other stuff. Plus, limited to 18" reaction bubble, so its not that great anyhow.

You do realise 60 bolters would kill perty even with a 2+ and a 5+ fnp right? They would actually probably wipe the squad and all that would save them is not taking moral due to shooting.
However all im saying is that given that it isnt actually that hard for someone to counter you, take the 10 tyrants to absorb more shots and stay effective. That unit is going to be pushing 1k anyway may aswell bump them up.


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Just to be clear myself and a friend both play IW and he tried this against me when it was his turn to run perty (i almost always just march straight up the centre of the field with 10 tyrants, perty and a siege breaker) he never tried it again because dropping a dread that i can shred with autocannon fire and a nice big unit i can topple with anything strength 4 or above in enough numbers isnt smart, its cool and awesome but it is not smart.

 King Amroth wrote:
You do realise 60 bolters would kill perty even with a 2+ and a 5+ fnp right? They would actually probably wipe the squad and all that would save them is not taking moral due to shooting.
However all im saying is that given that it isnt actually that hard for someone to counter you, take the 10 tyrants to absorb more shots and stay effective. That unit is going to be pushing 1k anyway may aswell bump them up.


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Just to be clear myself and a friend both play IW and he tried this against me when it was his turn to run perty (i almost always just march straight up the centre of the field with 10 tyrants, perty and a siege breaker) he never tried it again because dropping a dread that i can shred with autocannon fire and a nice big unit i can topple with anything strength 4 or above in enough numbers isnt smart, its cool and awesome but it is not smart.

40 hits. 20 wounds. 2+ save would mean about 4 wounds total, one of which would be negated by FNP. So, at most you are doing 3 wounds - of which I could put on Perty if I tank with him and Look Out, Sir! one onto the Primus Medicae if need be, just to not make Perty suffer too much.

That is for a majority T4 squad, btw. Perty just on his own laughs hilariously at 60 bolter shots because he is only getting wounded on 6's with a 2+ save. So, yea, he takes maybe a wound or two from 60 bolter shots on average rolls.

And the bump from 5 Tyrants to 10 is enormous in a list too tight to handle it as is. Becomes far, far, far too many eggs in one basket. A basket that a few Quad Launchers or Typhon would cause major issues for.

And you aren't "dropping a dread" that you can "shred" with autocannons. Bro, the Leviathan is only getting glanced on 6's by your autocannons and that is saying it doesn't save them on a 4+ even still. There is a reason that thing has a nasty reputation.

Yea no problem please put perturabo in front. My lascannons will shoot first and he can either take them on his 3+ then 5+ or pass them off to someone else an have them get barbecued. Either way im happy. You have dropped a Primarch right infront of me that cant charge or do much at all and doesnt have that much in ablative wounds at t4. Im also not going to worry about that dread till it charges and with tank hunter, sunder and armourbane on so many weapons im sure ill have something that can shoot it up a bit and should it survive which as long as perty makes his first turn deep strike it will since ill concentrate on him so ill even charge it.
Honestly im not seeing how this is so scary its a tough nut but to be honest this game ends on turn 2, either i kill that stuff and you are screwed or i fail and you should be able to charge in and kill me.


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Although yea perty on his own is hilariouse if you take primarchs chosen below 2k.

 King Amroth wrote:
Yea no problem please put perturabo in front. My lascannons will shoot first and he can either take them on his 3+ then 5+ or pass them off to someone else an have them get barbecued. Either way im happy. You have dropped a Primarch right infront of me that cant charge or do much at all and doesnt have that much in ablative wounds at t4. Im also not going to worry about that dread till it charges and with tank hunter, sunder and armourbane on so many weapons im sure ill have something that can shoot it up a bit and should it survive which as long as perty makes his first turn deep strike it will since ill concentrate on him so ill even charge it.
Honestly im not seeing how this is so scary its a tough nut but to be honest this game ends on turn 2, either i kill that stuff and you are screwed or i fail and you should be able to charge in and kill me.


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Although yea perty on his own is hilariouse if you take primarchs chosen below 2k.

You seem to think your whole army will get to shoot me. Remember, I drop in and shoot first. You will be responding with reduced firepower. And a 3++ / 5+ basically will ignore your Lascannon shot, 66% chance of success with another 33% chance to save after that.

But all of this is in a vacuum. Doesn't do much good to mathhammer it out.

Hrm, OK so the Rhino might not make the cut then. I can still put a really fun force together without it, just the idea of null deploy + deepstrikeing and outflanking units seems really entertaining.

What about if I put a ADL with Comms relay on there?

RE killing Perturbs and the Tyrants + Primus Medicae, yes, that's a concern, it's going to boil down to killing what can kill them right off the deepstrike, and or getting really lucky with follow up rolls, but hey it's 30K so not so concerned about WAAC or anything, it's certainly not a guaranteed lose situation.

Also, deepstrike positioning will be a factor, I put him together on his 60mm base because the 40mm/60mm version was too fiddly to figure out

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Yea no problem please put perturabo in front. My lascannons will shoot first and he can either take them on his 3+ then 5+ or pass them off to someone else an have them get barbecued. Either way im happy. You have dropped a Primarch right infront of me that cant charge or do much at all and doesnt have that much in ablative wounds at t4. Im also not going to worry about that dread till it charges and with tank hunter, sunder and armourbane on so many weapons im sure ill have something that can shoot it up a bit and should it survive which as long as perty makes his first turn deep strike it will since ill concentrate on him so ill even charge it.
Honestly im not seeing how this is so scary its a tough nut but to be honest this game ends on turn 2, either i kill that stuff and you are screwed or i fail and you should be able to charge in and kill me.


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Although yea perty on his own is hilariouse if you take primarchs chosen below 2k.

You seem to think your whole army will get to shoot me. Remember, I drop in and shoot first. You will be responding with reduced firepower. And a 3++ / 5+ basically will ignore your Lascannon shot, 66% chance of success with another 33% chance to save after that.

But all of this is in a vacuum. Doesn't do much good to mathhammer it out.

The point is that my army will get to shoot you first, anything with augury when you arrive and everything else in my following shooting phase as i move in to position my men. Im not saying its a bad tactic, it isnt, its awesome but 5 tyrants is more risky when you can just go the whole hog for another 250 and increase survivability and ensueing damage output massively.

Augury Scanners only trigger if I land within 18". I can drop in and just unload on you. That was my point.

That moment when you realize the two people arguing over the merits of the list aren't even the guy who amde the list...

Personally, with a low number of models, I would worry about enemy two plus saves ruining your moments, but it looks like a fun list. Anything with primarchs is ace in my book!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Augury Scanners only trigger if I land within 18". I can drop in and just unload on you. That was my point.

And my point is that if your not coming in close enough to charge next turn then why are you coming in at all? Dont ds and risk not getting onto the table, just set up normally and use that awesome 48" threat and perty to make them bs5 and drop a bombardment.

 King Amroth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Augury Scanners only trigger if I land within 18". I can drop in and just unload on you. That was my point.

And my point is that if your not coming in close enough to charge next turn then why are you coming in at all? Dont ds and risk not getting onto the table, just set up normally and use that awesome 48" threat and perty to make them bs5 and drop a bombardment.

To get side armor. Krak missiles to the front scares exactly 0 tanks that are worth worrying about.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Augury Scanners only trigger if I land within 18". I can drop in and just unload on you. That was my point.

And my point is that if your not coming in close enough to charge next turn then why are you coming in at all? Dont ds and risk not getting onto the table, just set up normally and use that awesome 48" threat and perty to make them bs5 and drop a bombardment.

To get side armor. Krak missiles to the front scares exactly 0 tanks that are worth worrying about.

Im not entirely sure what that comment is in reply to to be honest as we havent been discussing vehicles. As for the last bit most tanks are av13 in the front unless they are a superheavy, s8 glances a land raider. You have been misinformed.

 King Amroth wrote:
As for the last bit most tanks are av13 in the front unless they are a superheavy, s8 glances a land raider. You have been misinformed.

STR 8 does not glance a Spartan (the only Land Raider worth worrying about) because of flare shields. Your krak missiles can't even attempt to roll dice unless you get into side arc.

 Peregrine wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
As for the last bit most tanks are av13 in the front unless they are a superheavy, s8 glances a land raider. You have been misinformed.

STR 8 does not glance a Spartan (the only Land Raider worth worrying about) because of flare shields. Your krak missiles can't even attempt to roll dice unless you get into side arc.

You worry about a spartan? The only thing it has going for it that you cant get better elsewhere is transport capacity. I cant remember ever seeing a spartan and thinking anything about it. I run 10 iron havocs with lascannons in most lists and while occasinally ill shoot it most of the time i would ignore it, its just not scary lol. At a high enough points it will have something scary inside but ill have something scary that isnt in a transport also hitting side armour isnt hard if you actually think about what you are doing, even on a 4x4 . I respect people who want to use a spartan because they are cool but they really arent some sort of bogeyman.


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I would be more worried about things like pred sqaudrons with plasma and las, sicarans and vindis and even artillery tanks, all of which are 13 or below. Knights are i believe all 13 as well so other than superheavy tanks what is the worry?


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The legion list in no way lacks for high strength shooting.

My last game was 1500 points against a spartan with 10 Red Butchers and a Praetor inside and 3 foot tac squads. I wiped the tacs effortlessly but could not stop the spartan and friends, who effortlessly wiped me in return. Was playing Solar Auxilia

My 1500 list is
herald
forgelord
command squad
2 5 man vet tacs
5 lascannon havocs
10 tyrants

 King Amroth wrote:
My 1500 list is
herald
forgelord
command squad
2 5 man vet tacs
5 lascannon havocs
10 tyrants

Yeah the list I played against will devour that. You don't have enough firepower to stop the spartan + friends from wiping out your 10 tyrants and a good amount of your 5 havocs.

Also, by herald do you mean delegatus?

Ive played that list, similar enough anyway, by the time the spartan opened and the red butchers charged out they were the only thing left of the enemy force, positioning meant that the butchers charged end of turn 2. They ran straight into a unit of fearless tyrants killed all but 2 or 3 i think and lost all but the preator and 3 or 4 butchers next turn my command squad charged and removed them with lighning claws and then the preator died to a power fist.
The vets didnt do much except melta bomb the spartan and the havocs finished it off between i think 2 of them in turn 3.
Its a strong list but that spartan really costs you and generally you dont need it.

No i mean the Legion Herald, he is in the new red book, its a consul banner bearer with rite of command (same rule as the delegatus) so he has to be your warlord, you cant take a praetor and he can be in a list under 1k but he has support officer so i need the forgelord for compulsory hq. There is a diff banner depending on loyalist, traitor or blackshield.


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Plus havocs lol
Ive regularly glanced a spartan to death even with a flareshield before they even leave the deployment zone.

 King Amroth wrote:
Ive played that list, similar enough anyway, by the time the spartan opened and the red butchers charged out they were the only thing left of the enemy force, positioning meant that the butchers charged end of turn 2. They ran straight into a unit of fearless tyrants killed all but 2 or 3 i think and lost all but the preator and 3 or 4 butchers next turn my command squad charged and removed them with lighning claws and then the preator died to a power fist.
The vets didnt do much except melta bomb the spartan and the havocs finished it off between i think 2 of them in turn 3.
Its a strong list but that spartan really costs you and generally you dont need it.

No i mean the Legion Herald, he is in the new red book, its a consul banner bearer with rite of command (same rule as the delegatus) so he has to be your warlord, you cant take a praetor and he can be in a list under 1k but he has support officer so i need the forgelord for compulsory hq. There is a diff banner depending on loyalist, traitor or blackshield.


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Plus havocs lol
Ive regularly glanced a spartan to death even with a flareshield before they even leave the deployment zone.

Glanced a spartan to death with 5 havocs? 5 hits and 5 6s even with tank hunters shouldn't happen 'regularly' and statistically, 10 red butchers is going to be 41 attacks, 48 with a WE praetor on the charge, hitting on 3s with Hatred means roughly 42-43 hits, meaning roughly 28 wounds, meaning your entire 10 man tyrant squad is dead, with more than half again as many wounds to spare. The spartan, with 3 Heavy Bolter shots snapfiring and 4 twin-linked Lascannon shots which are not, will either force the squad of Havocs to go to ground or kill at least 2 in 4+ cover, up to 4ish with no cover at all.

Both of your anti-spartan units just died, XD. I don't know what game you were playing but you had some stellar luck and your opponent had awful luck. Also, my math above didn't take into account the fact that the Praetor is Paragon Blade + Chainfist and the Devoured in the Red Butchers is dual chainfist, so STR 8 instead of STR5.

The glancing was not this match nor was it even close, i regularly play 2.5k and often closer to 4k. Any time the havoc were able to do that it was a 10 man squad.
More importantly what firing lol i mean it happens ofcourse but generally only the turn they disembark before that everyone ive seen who sticks a close combat unit into a spartan just flys it as fast down the table to wherever it needs to be.
That particular match i was lucky and the praetor was less than stellar i beleive, there was also no chainfists/powerfists. What would be the point when im on the whole only 1 wound? The tyrants however get to ignore how many wounds the butchers have and the fnp. and to be honest it wouldnt have mattered if they had killed the unit although the banner helped with the ones that did to keep the butchers in combat.
The herald and command squads charge was backed up by hitting on threes even if they werent ws5 the herald lets me reroll 1s to hit and the forgelord lets me make them toughness 3 at that point im just trying to outdice them in numbers.
It was about what i expected to be honest, it could have been a loss maybe even should have been but with almost everyone except the praetor attacking at i1 and killing on a failed 4++ it makes thing a little more even.