Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So we always hear the debates about who the strongest cc legion is with the usual suspects Blood Angels, World Eaters, Space Wolves and Emperors Children always making an appearance. But that got me thinking, what legion is the worst at close combat? Tbh it's pretty difficult to talk about space marines who don't excel at all manners of warfare, but If I had to pick one I would probably go with Alpha Legion. Simply because they are the type of Legion who always used human soldiers, snipers and assassins and didn't seem to particularly long for the glory of close combat like so many other legions do. They are perfectly capable at close combat, but I think because it's something they didn't do as often as the other legions, maybe that would make them not quite up to scratch in comparison. Some parameters for the discussion; we are talking fluff here, not tabletop. We are also assuming this is pre heresy, so no chaos mutations to help the traitor legions. Primarchs don't count, we're talking simple space marines here. Actually really excited to hear some other opinions

I actually think that the alphas would have a better chance than you would think, having perfected the art of tilting the odds in their favour any way possible. Also, as seen in deliverance lost, the disguised alpha was able to best his raven guard 'brother' through trickery and by using a technique the ravens had not seen before.

I would say the worst CC fighters would be
Imperial Fists
Iron Warriors
Thousand Sons
Salamanders

Not particularly good
Word Bearers
Ultramarines
Dark Angeles

Iron Warriors are quite good actually. Quote Lexicanum:
"The Iron Warriors are also fierce close-range fighters, witnesses comparing their ferocity to the berserkers of the World Eaters traitor legion or the loyalist Blood Angels"

I agree the Thousand Sons would be probably the worst, as they are the only legion that I know of who had to be lectured about their fighting style (specifically, not to rely on their powers). Beyond that, pick any of the legions without particularly specialization at melee. To my knowledge these are the:
Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Word Bearers, Dark Angels, Alpha Legion and maybe the Death Guard or Salamanders.

Imperial Fists (and successors other than the Black Templars) might not be all crazy about close combat but they're actually interested enough in swordsmanship that they have their own traditional meet for it. Something called a Feast of Blades I believe?

I can't remember the detail too well but there's a cool HH short story about set up duels between champions of different legions (something along those lines anyway) but it has a Thousand Sons swordsman who excels in duels because he sees everything coming. I'd read it again but there are so many HH shorts now I'll probably just have to come across it randomly

But yea... it would likely be the Tsons.

Salamanders. Remember they possess an odd defect that, in general, means they have slower reflexes than the other legions.

 Orblivion wrote:
Salamanders. Remember they possess an odd defect that, in general, means they have slower reflexes than the other legions.

Isn't it an incredibly small difference though?

Space Wolves, they really need a buff.
Sarcasm aside I'd say Blood Angels, not because they're actually bad at melee but because if they have to cover more than a foot they never make melee.

pm713 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Salamanders. Remember they possess an odd defect that, in general, means they have slower reflexes than the other legions.

Isn't it an incredibly small difference though?

Probably, but it's still a disadvantage.

pm713 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Salamanders. Remember they possess an odd defect that, in general, means they have slower reflexes than the other legions.

Isn't it an incredibly small difference though?

An incredibly small difference could mean death if fighting someone without that difference.

 Orblivion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Salamanders. Remember they possess an odd defect that, in general, means they have slower reflexes than the other legions.

Isn't it an incredibly small difference though?

Probably, but it's still a disadvantage.

Yeah but iirc they are a tic tougher and stronger to make up for it. Just like when Russ and Lion El' went at, Russ was stronger but the Lion was faster so it balanced out.

But really when your talking 'worst' at close combat it's not that easy. I'd probably say the Iron Hands though. They are super cocky and reliant on bionics to take their hits for them. And their Primarch went out like a weak candle. (-might be somewhat biased...cause...you know...go Slaanesh! )