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Hey mates. I am seriously tempted to purchase a copy of the new Imperial Agents Codex, however I've been hearing a lot of negativity and salt surrounding it at this time. Basically, the gist of it is that they didn't really improve anything and it's just a way to have Inquisition, Sisters of Battle, and some other unique units in a book instead of having them on data-slates. With that being the case, did they change the Inquisition and the warbands in any particular way? And are there any formations in the Codex that are worth running, particularly in the case of the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch? Appreciate the help and feedback.

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates. I am seriously tempted to purchase a copy of the new Imperial Agents Codex, however I've been hearing a lot of negativity and salt surrounding it at this time. Basically, the gist of it is that they didn't really improve anything and it's just a way to have Inquisition, Sisters of Battle, and some other unique units in a book instead of having them on data-slates. With that being the case, did they change the Inquisition and the warbands in any particular way? And are there any formations in the Codex that are worth running, particularly in the case of the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch? Appreciate the help and feedback.

What you heard is mostly correct, though I'm not entirely certain it's a bad thing. Here are the major changes, at least to my memory:
Celestine is gone. This is the biggest bad thing, IMO.
Servo-Skulls are also gone.
Warbands are now a formation instead of a unit, with a few noteworthy changes:
First, you have to include a unit of Acolytes, meaning you have at least 3 guardsman statlines in your Warband.
Second, you buy the other types of guys by the unit, instead of by the model, usually limited to one unit of each. This means that if you want any of them you have to take at least two crusaders (but up to 10,) at least 2 DCA, at least 3 Arco-flagellants, you can only bring one Priest or Astropath, etc. (Jaekero and Daemonhosts are 0-6, so you can take them in variable quantities.)
Sisters get a fairly static detachment, it's really not noteworthy. (You don't get ObjSec, you instead get re-rolls on saves of 1 for a full turn, once per game.)
Priests are now an HQ choice, instead of the old "0-5, but can't be your HQ" thing.

None of the formations are particularly noteworthy. Variations of 'Come in sooner/more reliably' for the most part. (Deathwatch get the same Aquilla bonus that they do in the main codex.) Mostly, it just allows you to take tiny extra detachments from other factions.

It's also full of poorly written rules that don't really make sense.

 Smotejob wrote:
It's also full of poorly written rules that don't really make sense.

Nah, it's not 'Full', there are maybe three or four, but the ones that exist are pretty glaring in the conflicts.

IMO, if they were looking to cut down on the number of Codices, the first place to start would be the half-dozen or so Space Marine codices in existence with full model ranges.

No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

 Pouncey wrote:
IMO, if they were looking to cut down on the number of Codices, the first place to start would be the half-dozen or so Space Marine codices in existence with full model ranges.

^This.


I was super excited to purchase the imperial agents codex until I learned that Officio Assassinorum rules were just copy pasted from the White Dwarf. No thanks. I'll just stick with the Culexus until they decide to make the other assassin temples viable.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

This isn't true in the slightest. Inquisition got some nerfs, some buffs, and are ultimately about the same unless you were using them in really cheap, exploity ways (Namely, taking barebones Inquisitors for the 3 Servo Skulls and access to 18-pt psychic batteries.)

Most things work as written, with a few confusing elements that need some clarification, because they've never written a big combo-faction book before.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

This isn't true in the slightest. Inquisition got some nerfs, some buffs, and are ultimately about the same unless you were using them in really cheap, exploity ways (Namely, taking barebones Inquisitors for the 3 Servo Skulls and access to 18-pt psychic batteries.)

Most things work as written, with a few confusing elements that need some clarification, because they've never written a big combo-faction book before.

Given how the Inquisition works in the lore, shouldn't the Inquisition always have been taken as a small command section for a larger force from another Codex, rather than an army in its own right? Isn't that why Inquisition became a standalone dataslate with rules for allying into other Imperial forces after being separated from the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters codices back about half a decade ago?

 Pouncey wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

This isn't true in the slightest. Inquisition got some nerfs, some buffs, and are ultimately about the same unless you were using them in really cheap, exploity ways (Namely, taking barebones Inquisitors for the 3 Servo Skulls and access to 18-pt psychic batteries.)

Most things work as written, with a few confusing elements that need some clarification, because they've never written a big combo-faction book before.

Given how the Inquisition works in the lore, shouldn't the Inquisition always have been taken as a small command section for a larger force from another Codex, rather than an army in its own right? Isn't that why Inquisition became a standalone dataslate with rules for allying into other Imperial forces after being separated from the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters codices back about half a decade ago?

Taking them as a small command section for a larger force is great. Taking stripped-down barebones units for access to one specific piece of wargear isn't how they work in the lore, though. (Ultimately, those 18-pt batteries or cheap servo-skull carriers weren't game breakers, but they didn't really make sense or work as they were intended to, which is why I don't mind that they were changed.

Actually from what i understand the SoB are still in their own codex and thie dex is only for those that want to include small elements from other smaller dexs.

so if you're already running a sisters army (like myself) we still run the current dex BUT if you're running another army and want to include sisters into it you'll need this dex.

picture for reference from GW

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

"Every army doesn't work as written"? Care to elaborate? Mechanicus don't really help very much, but their rules work just fine. Astra Telepathica have no problems. Aeronatica are broken, yes. Deathwatch works fine. Grey Knights work fine, with only a minor bit of confusion since they can apparently take choices from their main codex. Sisters of Battle work fine. The only army that has real, major issues are the Inquisition, and they only have two issues, one regarding how Factions work with transports since they're kind of weird, and the other regarding how attaching the Deathwatch, GK, and SoB works.

That's three major problems I can think of. Any others you care to mention?

YES! It is

- it is the only way to have a hard covered book for the armies in it. ( This is huge for inq & sisters)
- it has some extreme msu options such as lone 10 pt daemon hosts.
- it has am option to build an 100 man henchmen squad in it ( made with crusaders death cult assassins and a priest)
- priests are now independent chars and you can add one to any army. On is still allowed me to buy the auto pass relic.
-25 point independent character packers that you can add to any army.
-there is an extremely cheap way to boost canticles of the o in the book.
- it gives renegade in options to the malleus inq.
- it buffs all inq models individually with a free warlord trait.
- power armour has a 50÷ discount in the book inq army.
- it has tons of strange small detachment it making it simpler to add things you like to your army.
- allmost all rogue trader RPG player character s can now be represented by independent characters that can be added to any Inc army.


And the book looks great. What more do you want ?

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

This isn't true in the slightest. Inquisition got some nerfs, some buffs, and are ultimately about the same unless you were using them in really cheap, exploity ways (Namely, taking barebones Inquisitors for the 3 Servo Skulls and access to 18-pt psychic batteries.)

Most things work as written, with a few confusing elements that need some clarification, because they've never written a big combo-faction book before.

Given how the Inquisition works in the lore, shouldn't the Inquisition always have been taken as a small command section for a larger force from another Codex, rather than an army in its own right? Isn't that why Inquisition became a standalone dataslate with rules for allying into other Imperial forces after being separated from the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters codices back about half a decade ago?

Taking them as a small command section for a larger force is great. Taking stripped-down barebones units for access to one specific piece of wargear isn't how they work in the lore, though. (Ultimately, those 18-pt batteries or cheap servo-skull carriers weren't game breakers, but they didn't really make sense or work as they were intended to, which is why I don't mind that they were changed.

Ahh, okay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Actually from what i understand the SoB are still in their own codex and thie dex is only for those that want to include small elements from other smaller dexs.

so if you're already running a sisters army (like myself) we still run the current dex BUT if you're running another army and want to include sisters into it you'll need this dex.

What happened to the Allies matrix and/or Unbound lists that would mandate the Imperial Agents codex being necessary?

To be clear, my problem with the batteries was that they clearly weren't meant to work the way they did - They were created in 6th edition, when Warp Charges didn't exist, and their rules were clearly designed so that you'd need lots of them to be any good. (Their power was a large blast that got stronger the more psykers were in the unit.) When 7th ed came around, they lost their special power, and with it, they lost any reason to take more than one psyker.

 Pouncey wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No. Every army in it doesn't actually work as written and the changes to the Inquisition are tremendous nerfs.

This isn't true in the slightest. Inquisition got some nerfs, some buffs, and are ultimately about the same unless you were using them in really cheap, exploity ways (Namely, taking barebones Inquisitors for the 3 Servo Skulls and access to 18-pt psychic batteries.)

Most things work as written, with a few confusing elements that need some clarification, because they've never written a big combo-faction book before.

Given how the Inquisition works in the lore, shouldn't the Inquisition always have been taken as a small command section for a larger force from another Codex, rather than an army in its own right? Isn't that why Inquisition became a standalone dataslate with rules for allying into other Imperial forces after being separated from the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters codices back about half a decade ago?

If the Inquisitorial Stormtrooper-substitutes weren't so incredibly terrible and GW didn't insist on making me buy 4+ books to run my army I'd be okay with this development.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
picture for reference from GW

That's a relief, certainly.

But... it's less comforting when you consider the fact that Celestine did not simply go out of stock, she is instead no longer available.

Also, my experience with World of Warcraft recently has led me to be wary of gaming companies promising things like this. I would not be surprised if this were merely an attempt to make Sisters players more comfortable in the meantime, then later the Adepta Sororitas Codex were simply never updated again, and eventually is pulled from sale. Blizzard pulled something similar by promising that old character models would still be available, then only two years later they removed the option to use old models.

Yes i'm a little concerned about her as well. she was one of the best HQ choices for the army. though we do now have canoness Veridyan and her awesome Precision shot and strike trickery. Who knows they may actually be pulling their finger out of their butts and ACTUALLY updating the model/s

But see if you're already a sisters player you have the digital codex and that's still mostly your source of info (though there are formations iirc in IA). i think what might happen is new sisters players will pick this up and then start using this as the source and then eventually the dex will be dropped unbeknownst to old players.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Yes i'm a little concerned about her as well. she was one of the best HQ choices for the army. though we do now have canoness Veridyan and her awesome Precision shot and strike trickery. Who knows they may actually be pulling their finger out of their butts and ACTUALLY updating the model/s

But see if you're already a sisters player you have the digital codex and that's still mostly your source of info (though there are formations iirc in IA). i think what might happen is new sisters players will pick this up and then start using this as the source and then eventually the dex will be dropped unbeknownst to old players.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why/how on earth did that post stuff up so much....?

Veridyan also concerns me a bit. She's a resin model, not a multi-part plastic kit like all of the other character kits to come out recently.

I wonder if maybe people were right to suspect that the metal models might just be replaced by resin ones, perhaps even with a price hike for GW's trouble. I hope not, but you never know.

Hadn't thought of that Pouncey.
i hope not, i really would like to have some sister conversions hit the table...

Also sisters gained inits not lost units since this ia a supplement. Just print out saint c + all the other data sheets you like more in the old codex and you have a hard cover book.

Sister players are no longer limited on the amount of priests they can take.
They can take death cult assassins and crusaders without a priest and can take the cannonness support squad without taking the cannonnones as elite choice.
They have that up to 100 men close combat henchmen squad
And they do have a new cad like detachment option that trades opsec for 1 turn reroll all 1s on saves

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Hadn't thought of that Pouncey.
i hope not, i really would like to have some sister conversions hit the table...

I was looking forward to doing conversions like this on Sororitas models:



I should get around to finishing that guy's paint job some day...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Also sisters gained inits not lost units since this ia a supplement. Just print out saint c + all the other data sheets you like more in the old codex and you have a hard cover book.

Sister players are no longer limited on the amount of priests they can take.
They can take death cult assassins and crusaders without a priest and can take the cannonness support squad without taking the cannonnones as elite choice.
They have that up to 100 men close combat henchmen squad
And they do have a new cad like detachment option that trades opsec for 1 turn reroll all 1s on saves

I had to print out my entire Codex anyways since I don't have a tablet or eReader to bring my Codex to the tabletop.

I never took enough priests to reach the limit before.

Priests are good enough with a Battle Conclave, and cheap enough, there's little point in not taking one anyways. And I have to question the logic of anyone who decided that a commander's personal squad did not need a commander to be the personal squad of.

That sounds absurd. That's essentially a Green Tide formation.

That sounds like a terrible tradeoff given the number of objective-based games out there.

 Pouncey wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Yes i'm a little concerned about her as well. she was one of the best HQ choices for the army. though we do now have canoness Veridyan and her awesome Precision shot and strike trickery. Who knows they may actually be pulling their finger out of their butts and ACTUALLY updating the model/s

But see if you're already a sisters player you have the digital codex and that's still mostly your source of info (though there are formations iirc in IA). i think what might happen is new sisters players will pick this up and then start using this as the source and then eventually the dex will be dropped unbeknownst to old players.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why/how on earth did that post stuff up so much....?

Veridyan also concerns me a bit. She's a resin model, not a multi-part plastic kit like all of the other character kits to come out recently.

I wonder if maybe people were right to suspect that the metal models might just be replaced by resin ones, perhaps even with a price hike for GW's trouble. I hope not, but you never know.

You are a passionate veteran sister s player.
How many models do you honestly expect to buy ? It seems to me that models like Berri are exactly what you would be spending your money on, not on the hypothetical train replacements of the sister models you already have. Also the entire new sisters models discussion is I off topic and a good way to steer this thread into a pointless heated discussion.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Yes i'm a little concerned about her as well. she was one of the best HQ choices for the army. though we do now have canoness Veridyan and her awesome Precision shot and strike trickery. Who knows they may actually be pulling their finger out of their butts and ACTUALLY updating the model/s

But see if you're already a sisters player you have the digital codex and that's still mostly your source of info (though there are formations iirc in IA). i think what might happen is new sisters players will pick this up and then start using this as the source and then eventually the dex will be dropped unbeknownst to old players.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why/how on earth did that post stuff up so much....?

Veridyan also concerns me a bit. She's a resin model, not a multi-part plastic kit like all of the other character kits to come out recently.

I wonder if maybe people were right to suspect that the metal models might just be replaced by resin ones, perhaps even with a price hike for GW's trouble. I hope not, but you never know.

You are a passionate veteran sister s player.
How many models do you honestly expect to buy ? It seems to me that models like Berri are exactly what you would be spending your money on, not on the hypothetical train replacements of the s

I was planning on replacing my entire army, so I can make them into furries using Skink parts.

Also, who is "Berri"?

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Yes i'm a little concerned about her as well. she was one of the best HQ choices for the army. though we do now have canoness Veridyan and her awesome Precision shot and strike trickery. Who knows they may actually be pulling their finger out of their butts and ACTUALLY updating the model/s

But see if you're already a sisters player you have the digital codex and that's still mostly your source of info (though there are formations iirc in IA). i think what might happen is new sisters players will pick this up and then start using this as the source and then eventually the dex will be dropped unbeknownst to old players.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why/how on earth did that post stuff up so much....?

Veridyan also concerns me a bit. She's a resin model, not a multi-part plastic kit like all of the other character kits to come out recently.

I wonder if maybe people were right to suspect that the metal models might just be replaced by resin ones, perhaps even with a price hike for GW's trouble. I hope not, but you never know.

You are a passionate veteran sister s player.
How many models do you honestly expect to buy ? It seems to me that models like Berri are exactly what you would be spending your money on, not on the hypothetical train replacements of the sister models you already have. Also the entire new sisters models discussion is I off topic and a good way to steer this thread into a pointless heated discussion.

Me? honestly only a few extra heavy weapon specialist and whatever new vehicles and new named characters they bring out. i already have over 100 infantry models and 6 immolators and 4 exorcists so i think i'm for them

 Pouncey wrote:

It's a green tide formation

The green tide formation wished it could be this monster.
They are all fearles, have hatred, all have power swords, reroll saves in close combat and can be all 2++ if you add draigo.

Another C:IA thread derailed into a SoB cry thread. This time only on page 1, impressive.

 MarsNZ wrote:
Another C:IA thread derailed into a SoB cry thread. This time only on page 1, impressive.

I don't recall anyone sobbing over anything, only cold, truthful statements of fact.

Reality is depressing sometimes though.

Lol my phone does some interesting things to the text.
:/